2013

A brand new year,
We're all still here.
The prophet's still jailed,
Faith still hasn't bailed.
Yes, tyranny still rules
Those who will be fools......

So... what's new?

Summer - Wasting Time?

The Crick needs a good scrubbing... the 'house' is still dirty.  Come on folks, finish it!  An outside house-cleaner won't do it right.  You're the only ones who know where all the foul nooks and crannies are.  How much more detergent do you still need?  You've had a truckload delivered to your doorstep.  Read the label and use it.


I'm going fishing. No idea when I'll be back.  Carry on.

April - May 2012

As noted in the previous thread, Wendell Loy Nielsen was convicted, fined and sentenced to 10 years in prison.  Why did he rescind the probation plea deal he had previously secured with Judge Walther?  Seems to me he's still dangling at the mercy of his prophet's puppet strings.

Copied from Anonymous on the Texas FLDS blog, here's the rundown of convictions and sentences resulting from the 2008 raid... exactly 4 years ago.

11-2009 — Raymond Jessop — Convicted at trial. 10 years.
12-2009 — Allen Keate — Convicted at trial. 33 years.
1-2010 — Michael Emack — No contest plea. 7 years.
3-2010 — Leroy Jessop — Convicted at trial. 75 years.
4-2010 — Lehi B. Jeffs — No contest plea. 8 years.
6-2010 — Keith Dutson, Jr. Convicted at trial. 6 years.
6-2010 — Abram Harker Jeffs — Convicted at trial. 17 years.
9-2011 — Warren Steed Jeffs — Convicted at trial. Life +20 years.
11-2011 — Leroy Johnson Steed — No contest plea. 7 years.
11-2011 — Merril Jessop — Convicted at trial. 10 years.
3-2012 — Wendell Nielsen — Convicted at trial. 10 years.

MARCH 2012

This thread replaces the previous edited version which is now dedicated to Street's posts.  If you posted there, your posts are still there.  I don't know how to transfer them.  I'll also repeat what I said over there:

I do not own this blog!

I am one of several who long ago was given the ability by unknown administrator(s) to start new threads. That is all I can do besides post comments like everyone else. However, I seem to be the only one of those several who has done that lately. And I've done so just to keep this blog from going into rigor mortis. It was once fun and lively.

I only lurk here occasionally when my email shows activity from posters other than Ruth and Street. I do not have the ability to ban anyone or delete any posts (except my own).

Here is my previous introduction to our March thread:

Have heard rumors that Warren/Lyle will have excommunicated many by today (1st of March).

True? or Not?

Lyle? Only you have the power to stop the insanity.  Just stand up, be a real man, and do it!  What kind of father's son are you?

Play your brother's Purgatory confessions and explain the subsequent coverup.  Don't you understand by now that your very life depends on it?

~Namaste~

STREET'S Posts - March 2012

This thread will provide a forum for Street to expound on his thoughts. 
You are forewarned... 
Enter at your own risk and enjoy your stay. 

Namaste

February 2012

The gravest error a think­ing per­son can make is to believe that one par­tic­u­lar ver­sion of his­tory is absolute fact. His­tory is recorded by a series of observers, none of whom is impar­tial.

The wise per­son, then, views his­tory as a set of lessons to be learned, choices and ram­i­fi­ca­tions to be con­sid­ered and dis­cussed, and mis­takes that should never again be made.
~Frank Herbert from Dune~

2012 -- HAPPY NEW YEAR!

It's worthwhile, I think, to start out the new year with a good review of this past year written by Matthew Waller for the San Angelo Standard Times.

FLDS: Following a 'prophet'

Emerging now are portentous stories (December 31st) about the illegal removal of young girls from their parents in Short Creek.

“Parents that have dropped off their girls for interviews, they go to pick them up and the girls have been sent off to a ‘safe place of refuge’ is what they’re being told,” said Tonia Tewell, the executive director of the group Holding Out Help. “And the families haven’t been deemed worthy or unworthy yet. But they have no idea where their children are disappearing to.”

Any of you who travel to or through or live there, please give us your thoughts about what you're seeing there in those tyrannized twin towns of Colorado City/Hildale.




In the meantime, HAPPY NEW YEAR 2012!
.
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November / December 2011

Halloween is over.  Got any spooky stories to share?  Thanksgiving is just around the corner - my favorite holiday of the whole year.

Speaking of spooky:
Warren Jeffs is in jail for the rest of his unnatural life; Wendell Nielsen pleaded no contest to bigamy last week -- was sentenced to ten years probation; Leroy J. Steed also pleaded no contest to two counts of sexual assault of a child -- was promptly whisked off to start serving his sentence of seven years in jail; and Merril Jessop is currently on trial in Texas.

Rumors continue to swirl that more people are being exed and/or leaving on their own. Who?  When?  Is Uncle Will's congregation in the Creek growing?  Where is Uncle Lyle?  How are people dealing with their prophet's incarceration? And what about that rumored statue?

I would really enjoy anyone sharing their impressions of the general attitude in Short Creek. And, of course, any current news would be welcome.  Let's revive this blog!  Anonymity guaranteed.

Autumn

I'm sure most of us have had a lot to say about Warren Jeffs' life sentencing in Texas. I know I have. There is also the matter of his health. Raise your hand if you doubt he will live as long as his father (98).
What else is going on this fall? I miss Harvest Festival. I like the feeling of community and togetherness it brought to have the entire town (and people from SLC and Canada) join the festivities for three days.
Other than that, the fall makes me strangely melancholy. I don't know why? maybe because it is the end of summer?
Anyway, what are you people up to?
Thoughts anyone?

Summer 2011

What's going on this summer?
I heard they did a picnic at Maxwell for "Uncle" Roy's birthday. I really wanted to make it but I had to work instead. Remember how much fun we used to have during the summer? There were so many things going on: the twenty fourth of July parade where all the business in town would make floats and throw candy to the kids, "Uncle" Roy's birthday where we would all eat watermelon and ride the train at Cottonwood Park, The fourth of July celebration where we would have the flag raising ceremony at the meeting house and then walk to breakfast at Cottonwood Park and the dance and fireworks that night....
So many things have changed :)

June 2011

Time to start a new thread.

So what's new?

• Michael Emack's appeal to invalidate search warrants leading to the YFZ raid - when's the decision coming down?
  
• Upcoming pretrials and jury trials for Wendell Nielsen and Warren Jeffs - who's next?
• Stealing and burning books in Short Creek - why?
  
• Competition for FLDS Corporation presidency - isn't it taking a long time to render that decision?
• $2,000 required from faithful elders - bleeding the sheep as well as the beast?
• What else?

• Keeping Sweet?
•  

Have there been any new FLDS expulsions at the Crick?

Anyone have any rumors or news they'd like to share?

I saw a story today about renewed efforts for a county library in Colorado City.

..................................

Warren in Texas

So, I don't know about you people, but I for one and glad Warren got sent to Texas. Let's see how the trials go, shall we?

October 2010

Starting a new thread....

FLDS Expanding in Schleicher County

Pilot posted some very interesting new photos taken July 30th.

-- newly acquired Griffin Farm
-- other purchased properties
-- completed sewer system
-- new pivot irrigation system

-- and much more.....

Pilot, I for one appreciate your efforts which allow us to see the progress and changes out there.

June & July 2010

Is anyone following the trials in Texas? Abram Harker Jeffs' trial is scheduled to start Wednesday, June 9th. He is Warren's brother.

May Day 2010

Mayday! Mayday!

• Definition: An internationally recognized distress signal via radiotelephone (from the French m'aider)

Just kidding. Thought I'd put out a new header on this first day of May.

I'm so glad winter's over and am enjoying spring immensely! Hope y'all are too.

~Namaste~

March 2010

Header for March posts.

A New Thread for February 2010

I only lurk here occasionally anymore. But it seems to me we could use a fresh thread. Hope everyone is having a good time... if not, create one! :-)

Happy New Year!

Hey, I had an ok year and I am looking forward to what 2010 will bring. I hope you all have a good year. God bless.

Happy Holidays Everyone

For just a minute, let's stop the debate and remember good things about this time of year. We never had Christmas in Colorado City when I lived there and I am pretty certain they still don't. But we did used to have Thanksgiving. Before Warren that is.... But anyway, remember the two "houses in a day"? The ones the men in the community constructed from bare basement to finished with carpet and paint within 24 hrs. on Thanksgiving day two years in a row? Anyone? How about any special family memories? Mine for thanksgiving was the family and the pies. Mother always made at least 6 different types of pies for Thanksgiving and we had leftover pie for breakfast for a week afterward....yum....Now that I am gone and have my own kids, I do put up a tree and lights. I've only celebrated Christmas for 4-5 yrs, but I love it! We started our own family tradition of making a gingerbread house every year. My kids love it, and I do too.... :)

Warren's New Trial

I heard on the radio the other day that Warren Jeffs new trial (or is it an appeal for the old one?) Is set to start sometime in the first of November. Thoughts anyone?

some thoughts on 911

Today is the anniversary of the attack on America by misguided men under the delusion of a man made ideology. Our President wants to obscure the fact that this was an attack on the sovereignty of the freest and most prosperous nation in mankind’s history, and turn the occasion into a day of service to the state, a state he is trying to morph into another man made ideology that has never, in the history of mankind worked. To us who have seen first hand, this ideology, under the misnomer of “The Kingdom of God” turn a reasonably loving and happy people, into a society of mistrust, hatred and fear, this gives cause for some serious introspection into the nature of freedom and mans relationship to God. The ownership of our own person, under the mentorship of a just and loving God, and the right too the benefit of the fruits of our own labor, is the basis of what made our nation grate. On the other hand all the evils that have beset our Nation, and there are many, are a direct result of non adherence to these principles and the unwillingness to let others observe and practice them. Its my personal belief that the life blood of the Kingdom Of God, is personal freedom and the right to commune with our Creator. Freedom is life, tyranny is death

what's up

I noticed there were 219 comments on the other thread and I thought we needed more room. Enjoy! :) By-the-way, I heard on the radio and saw in the paper today that Mr. Oler and Mr. Jeffs the two bishops have appealed the decision on the UEP. Thoughts anyone?

The New Colorado City

I am wondering what is going to happen next in the power struggle between Mr. Wisan, the judge and the delinquent FLDS payment on the UEP.
Will the judge sell all the homes and land in Colorado city and Bountiful Canada piece by piece until it is owned by anybody? I doubt very few of the FLDS could afford to buy their own homes. At the same time I honestly wish they would get over their stubbornness and realize that $100.00 a month payment is nothing compared to the $700.00 to $1200.00 mortgage payments the rest of us make.
FOR SALE!!! POLYGVILLE!!! Going once....going twice....
I should have a little more sympathy, maybe. I am wondering what will happen to my family and hope they will be OK. But at the same time I can't help but saying it's going to be pretty hard for the FLDS if they all have to move to rent some place in Hurricane.
People in Hurricane, beware! The polygs are coming! The polygs are coming! lol.

Someone asked what I think about the “new” FLDS trust. Although I haven’t read the trust document I’m pretty sure there isn’t anything “new” in the essence of the thing. The elements of the Commonwealth philosophy are grounded in the concept that the individual is incapable of “just” administration of the fruits of his or her own labor, therefore the individual’s production in a moral sense, belongs to society as a whole. The irony is that free enterprise does just that . Historically, when free enterprise has been in effect, in spite of the inherent boom and bust cycles, more people by far, have access to economic benefits than in any other system. All collective type economic schemes seem to have one thing in common, they postulate a moral need to regulate and administer the wealth of the productive members of society , because those who have wealth tend to be greedy, and it “just isn’t fair that some have and some have not”. all these schemas fail do to the fact that there proprietors, after using all the tools of suppression to stifle free self expression, find that the economy of the system is faltering. What happens next is they apply more of the same tactics that created the problem, to solve the problem. Among a society of imperfect beings there will always be injustice and abuse, why then do we want give control of our lives to others who are just as imperfect as ourselves? What better way to become just stewards of our own production, than to practice the FREE use of our talents and abilities in the production and distribution of goods and services?

New Photos of YFZ - APRIL 2009

It has been a long time since I uploaded any photos. The reason is that nothing much has changed in the last year. When the FLDS were building like bees, it was fascinating to watch and document their fantastic engineering feats. But all that has changed, and not much new construction exist. They have a new shop with different colored tin on top and stage one of the sewer is completed and operational. Concrete operations are at full power and very busy. I waited till after the first spring rains so the ranch would look its best. I would like to introduce you to the YFZ neighbors. PAVE-PAWS RADAR site owned by Raytheon Corp is located about 3 miles north of YFZ. 12 miles NW of YFZ are the Carmelite Monks. I love my monks. I am not catholic but am privy to their rituals because they like my photos and they find me amusing. Enjoy...

how polygamy might work

How polygamy might work: Some ramblings of an unaccomplished philosopher .
Lets start with monogamy, defined as: two people in a relationship. Lets define success of this relationship: by the degree of satisfaction experienced by the people involved in this relationship. Now this satisfaction * will continue as long the characteristics of the two people remain compatible. let’s now begin to add more people to the relationship. With each person added, the chances of mutual compatibility are lowered dramatically. So in order for a degree of satisfaction to exist , sufficient to hold this relationship together, there must be another element added that will outweigh the incompatibilities of the participants . This can be a common goal desired by all, such as survival, a political ideology, a religion or a mutual effort to acquire wealth etc. as long as the participants find sufficient satisfaction in progress toward this common goal, the relationship will likely hold together. I have seen some, though a very few polygamous relationships last because of mutual compatibility, however most of those that fail, are do to a loss of faith in the common goal. So as long as the participants continue to believe they are attaining what they believe they want through this relationship, there satisfaction will likely keep them there.

*I first used the word “happiness” here, but quickly realized that the word “satisfaction” was far more appropriate. there is a huge difference between happiness and satisfaction.

socialism

socialism, the united order,the great society, call it what you will, here is as succinct a description of it as I've ever heard.

Do you have any idea of what is going on? i will use a story from past history.
Joseph Stalin was asked once by a news reporter as he was at a restaurant:
"Mr. Stalin, if you continue to mistreat your people, how long do you expect them to continue following you? Are you not concern they will revolt?
Joseph Stalin asked for a live chicken be brought to him. As he held the chicken with one hand against himself with the other he started defeathering the live chicken. The chicken clut and wiggle to try to get away from him but it could not. he continue the defeathering until the live chicken was completely defeathered. After this he put it down and grab a piece of bread from the table where he had been eating and held it in his hand and the chicken approached near to him to be able to eat some of the bread. Joseph Stalin started to move away from the chicken and the chicken continue to follow him as he moved. He turned to the reporter and said do you have any questions?

the anti religionists.

the anti religionists point to to faith, which they call; "belief without evidence" as proof of its fallacy, that it is without scientific proof. so my question; how much "faith" do we use when we accept science as infallible?

Canada and Polygamy

Well, since Winston Blackmore's and Jim Oler's arrests this is what seems to be on everyone's minds so I thought I'd give us a place to discuss it more fully.

Welfare Fraud Disclaimed

According to an article in the SLT, the evidence of the State welfare records for 2007 and 2008 in both Utah and Arizona do not support the claims that the FLDS participate in widespread welfare fraud.
I would post the link, but instead refer you all the the Salt Lake Tribune home page. Just click on 'News' then polygamy and the article will be there.
Thoughts anyone?
My personal opinion on the subject is:
1- I am glad it is being shown that not all the people there blatantly abuse the system. My ex- father-in-law is among those who don't.
2-but there ARE those who do and we all know it. My own sister used to be one of them.
3-it really galls me that good women like Caroline Jessop get the public anger over this.
4- I don't really think the records of the past two years count because during the past two years, a good percent of the FLDS people have been living elsewhere. If a true analysis were to be considered, the state should dig into their records of when the full force of the community was resident in Colorado City. Like the years 2002-2003 when all the FLDS from Salt Lake City were living there as well as the original Colorado City residents. THEN compare that data to the average state data and THAT would be an accurate picture of the FLDS lifestyle and dependence on the government systems.

The right to rule

President elect Obama's speech this morning had a good sound to it. However it has always amazed me how two men can use the same, or very similar, words and phrases, and mean two very different things. for the lovers of liberty, there is no substitute for a solid majority of individuals among the populace, who have developed the skills of personal freedom.
These are they who 's right it is to rule.

Day one.

And so begins, the Obama-nation of desolation.

The Chosen.

am I mistaken, or do those who consider themselves the elite among us, seem to build the case for there superiority on adhominem criticism of others, rather than living an exemplary life?

The best sermon

The best sermon that can be preached, is the life of a man or women, that is truly honest with them selves and others. the only way to hear that sermon, in its entirety, is to be that person.

Linda Holm Funeral

Last Sundays meeting at the LSJ meeting house was a funeral for Don Holm's ex wife Linda Holm, she died of cancer. I understand she was Jerry Jessops daughter. I don't know much about her. But I love to follow the events of the town.

LeGrand Barlow's child was killed in a accident two weeks ago and a funeral was held for her. I just heard mention that it was Rosies child and was 17 months old.

Tho there are those that feel it sacriligious to mention any thing else on a funeral tab, I get to anyway.
I understand the FLD people were told that everyone that stole a house on the UEP was going to have to leave and I understand they are doing everything in their power to make it happen. I was told that I am in that category, despite the fact that we built our house, we stole it back ( in the FLDS eyes) My opinion is that anyone that built a house on the UEP is entitled to their house.

miracles

to a person of faith, there are no miracles. when one has done all they can for themselves, then turn to God for help, one dose not call it a miracle, when they get that help. rather they call it grace.

slang or mild profanity and political correctness

Although vile and corrupt language is offensive to anyone with any refinement, at what point dose the prohibition, in genteel society, of slang and mild profanity, become mere political correctness, with the intent to stifle self expression?

ignorence.

“Ignorance; the state of being ignorant; the condition of not being informed; lack of knowledge”…
It’s my belief, that the cure for ignorance, is curiosity .
“ Curious; eager for information; inquisitive ; prying“…
One of the primary tools of the tyrant, is the suppression of curiosity , so, if you want knowledge, get curious. It is the first step in overthrowing tyranny .

bad leadership

who's to blame for bad leadership, corrupt men, or an ignorant and complacent populace?

are the saints prepared?

In the aftermath of Warren's disastrous "tax and spend" polices, are the "saints" prepared for the eminent economic collapse?

why are laws made?

the justification for governments making laws, is to prevent abuse. the laws against polygamy were in existence, in western civilization for millenia. if polygamy wasn't abusive, why the laws, even in ancient times?

consider this

On Brooke Adams' blog, "the plural life",(ban on polygamy).
someone calling him, or herself, "maymunah'" gives a well thought out discussion on reasons not to legalize polygamy. even taking the premise that "it is a commandment of God," his argument still holds water.

a note on the passing of val jessop

although missled, val was a man with a good intensions. he,s gone on to better things, may the lord Lord bless and provide for his family, whome he loved veary much.

For the critics

all of you who have such "bitter"( I love that word), criticism for all the FLDS refugees who have written about there experiences, if you have the courage, or the mental capacity, try this little thought experiment . try to consider what your own condition is if these ladies are telling the truth.

Elissa Walls book

I just finished Elissa's book. It was definitley an engrossing read. I thought she laid out a very interesting and heart wrenching story. I have a lot of respect for not only her but the independence streak I saw in the Walls that I knew growing up in the group. Elissa if you lurk on this blog, Bravo on your book. God bless you and your family.
Any others who want to comment on her book?, or stories of their own who were involved in her history?

If a group of people want real truth, is it logical to isolate themselves from humanity in general?
And , does it make sense that an omnipotent creator would be so incompetent that the vast majority of his creations, that he chose to make in his own image, should be so defective as to render them unacceptable?
Or would it make more sense that ; because the defining feature that separates Man from the rest of his creatures is the ability to reason; that his plan to bring mankind to maturity would be one of interaction with others? And wouldn’t the interaction with many different kinds of people enhance your ability to reason?
It seems to me that limiting your experience would limit your intelligence.

more questions.

Is Texas honestly trying to solve a problem,or is there political motivation in these indictments?
if the people indicted are imprisoned, will it end all the alleged misconduct among the Flds?
or will it bring forth a number of "new Prophets with a special calling", and result in a fragmenting of the present FLDS congregation?

Back to Short Creek. UEP Evictions?

Brooke Adams reported on her blog that Bruce Wisan has posted notices for eviction pending payment of assessments. Can someone living in the twin cities confirm? Have any of the FLDS posting here received such notice?

Governor Perry Steps Up To The Plate

Texas Governor Rick Perry said -- he hopes state law enforcement officials and prosecutors “continue to send the message" to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints that child sexual abuse won't be tolerated.

Mr. Perry warned sect members that “if you are going to conduct yourself that way, we are going to prosecute you. If you don't want to be prosecuted for those activities, then maybe Texas is not the place you need to consider calling home."

Thank You, Guv! I couldn't have said it better myself.

Willie Jessop

Who is he and how did Mr. Jessop become the spokesperson for the FLDS? How much authority does he have in making commitments for them?

Advice for the CPS or Judges

Post any advice you may have that would answer the following:

What would you do differently if you were in the shoes of the CPS and trying to keep the children?

Answers for the FLDS

OK, The FLDS have had a chance to answer a few questions. Now here is some advice (whether you want it or not). Non-FLDS please answer the following and any you wish to add.

What would you do differently if you were in the shoes of the FLDS and trying to get your kids back?

Texas Appeallate Court decision

Click on thread title to read story in Salt Lake Tribune. Looks like the FLDS have won a battle but the war is far from over. Someone suggested on another blog that CPS should bus them all back in like they took them out. Probably not gonna happen.

More questions and answers

I was very glad to see the responses to many of the questions on the last thread. And frankly, I was surprised. The FLDS have not been as open in the past. Keep it up! Here is another thread as that last was getting very long.

Questions for the FLDS

As per request of several Anon posters here is a thread to ask "candid" questions of the FLDS members. Please keep an open mind and be respectful in all questions and responses. A truly open discussion would go a long way toward dispelling the rumors and innuendo surrounding the FLDS at this time.

Bishop's Family Record

The Bishop's Family Record seized during the YFZ Raid was released by the court on Friday.
Go HERE to download and read!

YFZ is a Ghost Town ( of sorts )

YFZ looked like a story out of a Steven King book. A death ship that calls for the souls of its sailors to come home. No one is moving. There are trucks around but no one working anywhere except the ever present lookout on top of the mountain. Nothing new since photos taken in February other than the skeleton like walls of their workshop. It does make one wonder what is going to happen to the people and their new Zion. It is an inevitable struggle when the law of the land runs afoul of someone's god or someone who made themselves god. I have taken photos from far above this time. Large shots showing how wonderful Zion could have been...

Enjoy...

What is Freedom?

Many people on this blog who have tried to come out in support of FLDS have mentioned the freedom of religion rights. Do we have the freedom to teach our children what morality is according to our own beliefs? At what point is it really abuse instead of freedom? Are we taking away the freedom of our children by teaching them our own morals? (DISCLAIMER: I am not indicating by this that the present troubles are religious in manner. I still believe it was the underage marriages that set this off.)

People search

As per request of Anonymous poster. If you know any ADULTS that have appeared on camera or in news stories post them here for those looking for lost relatives. Please keep this post for this purpose only.

Will the DNA testing solve anything?

I have seen criminal cases in which DNA played a role in conviction and later it was proven that the person was innocent. In light of this, with so many of these children and parents closely related, will DNA establish the true parentage of the children? How accurate is our ability to trace DNA trails? Perhaps there is someone in the medical/biological field that could help out here.

food for some further thought.

By virtue of giving the State a mandate to protect us from ourselves and each other, have we in fact, be come property of the State?

YFZ allows media on sacred ground.

I am disgusted. Why will the leaders at YFZ now allow the media to come within their ranks. They have been so reclusive but now that they have a need for the media it is all right to allow them inside? Couldn't they arrange for an interview outside the hollowed precinct? I see a double standard here. One might argue that the place has been desecrated so it doesn't matter anymore but if this is the case why the escort and why the restriction on allowed questions?

Some food for thought.

if our constitution guarantees citizens a bill of rights, and children who are citizens, are taught that they don't have these rights, aren't there civil rights being violated?

WORK CREWS WITH JACKHAMMERS ENTER COMPOUND

whats with this, are the Romans going to destroy the temple and lay waste to the "New Jerusalem"?

Cops Raid YFZ

I drove by the YFZ awhile ago and the cops had the road blocked. The Eldorado Success reports that they are raiding the place
READ HERE

Fill Me In

I've been gone for a bit, and I was wondering if anyone would fill me in on the highlights for the past 6 months or so.

HARKER FARMS CONTROVERSY

I hear that Sterling and William Harker are going for the gold about there farm. Will & Sterling, you guys ROCK! go git em!

a question for all you well adjusted, happily married plural wives; if you didn't believe it was a commandment of God,would you still choose to live polygamy?
I'm sure this has been asked before, but I don't recall hearing any direct and honest answers.

some questions:
Who were the key figures in creating the circumstances that allowed for a Warren Jeffs type takeover at Short Creek? when and what, specifically did they do?
who could have prevented it and what should have been done differently?

Eldorado YFZ is Expanding

These are the newest pics I have of FLDS in Eldorado. I had to compress them a little because I posted well over 150. Its been a while so I thought I would give you a treat. There is much activity at the YFZ ranch. This place is becoming quite a little town! The sewer is expanding rapidly. FLDS are working diligently trying to get it finished. Five more houses have been built( since November photos) due east of temple, a new guard house, completion of potato warehouse ( so we were told), and pivot irrigation fields have been expanded. There are definitely more people at the YFZ or at least more trucks. You have to give them credit for their incredible engineering and building skills.

Enjoy….

Why or Why not should Polygamy be Lived?

Here you go, Small One. I don't think this topic has been discussed before- at least since I have been here. It's not too hard to make a new post. I can see you've signed up with blogger. Just click on the orange "B" in the corner. That will take you to the blogger home page and there should be a box with Texas polygamy there. To create a new thread, just click on the "new Post" +.

I would have to say my opinion on the subject of polygamy is divided. Having once experiences it with bad results I am never going to do it again. But I know that there are people who live it and experience mostly good results- and I do not want to take that away from them. If people want live polygamy and can do so without hurting anyone I say they should. I also think polygamy should be legalized.

Lee Bistline Sr Funeral

Lee Bistline Sr one of the greatest men that ever lived in this valley died of a heart attack Monday morning. They will be having a funeral in St. George Ut.

Colorado City Library needs books

A couple years ago on Warrens Decree the Colorado City Public Library was shut down and the books burned as a symbol of coming out of the world and not partaking of her evils.

This library was situated in the middle of town with a small park around it. It was where everyone gathered in the fateful day in 53 when the government raided the town. It is also where the historic marker was put by the Barlow Brothers in commemoration of that Raid, that sparked Warrens wrath and kicked all of them out of town. Since 2003, there has been no library in town.

Time to change the way things are done.

Jeffs vs Jessop CLASH - The SPLIT in Texas

Merril Jessop and Isaac Jeffs disagree on management of YFZ so they have split up. Isaac and his followers have headed toward the coast.
Apostates of the apostates.
We will have to let them know they are welcome at the Creek...our problems are having problems..they could help solve them.
I don't worry much about Isaac, but it is all of Warrens wives he is "taking care of" that has me a little concerned.

10 year old girl dies in rollover

Wayne Thorton Fischer adopted son of Vaughn Fischer is in charge of the South Dakota Compound. he is married to Nancy Jessop, Joni Cooke Jeffs, Trish Barlow and he was driving a Duramax Truck with a camper shell full of 15 girls. He hit black ice and rolled the truck. His 10 yr old daughter was dead on impact and 3 others are in very critical condition. I heard one broke its neck and another its jaw. Funeral was held Jan 15th at the lsj meeting house in Colorado City. The rumor was that when the cops arrived on scene they just handcuffed him and took him to jail for involuntary man slaughter. (But he was at the funeral) All rumors, hope someone can confirm.

UEP $100.00 monthly fee

I read recently there will soon be letters sent out to the people living on UEP land respectfully requesting they pay a fee of $100.00 a month. This is not too much different than the fee's or "donations" that were paid a few years ago when I was still out there, but it is, although not as much as most of us pay monthly for rent and house payments, still a little steep for those poor people. My last "donation" was $20.00 a month for a little trailer, and in all honesty it was all I could afford at the time.
Supposedly if this fee is not paid for three consecutive months, another family will be assigned to live in the residence.
I wonder if the families are still receiving a monthly "donation" bill which they pay the FLDS church on top of the UEP fee? I wonder if Mr. Wisan tells them to move if they will do it or stubbornly remain in defiance until they are bodily evicted by the authorities. I wonder if he will even be able to FIND authorities who will do it.

And, I am worried about my family and my extended family.

The Other One

Does anyone know what happened to the "Share The Light" blog? Did the administrator of it just decide to stop it? What happened?

Ross LeBaron Accused by Sons of Incest

You may remember that Laurie (LeBaron) Allen is the producer & narrator of BANKING ON HEAVEN http://www.bankingonheaven.com/. Many of her reminicences that you hear in the film are about her experiences growing up in a polygamous cult. She was kidnapped at a young age by her uncle Ross W. LeBaron, Jr. and kept as a slave by Ross in Latin America until she escaped at age 16.

Laurie was alienated from Ross' family for the last 18 years, since they considered her an apostate. Although she helped raise many of the children in very harsh conditions (deserts & jungles), she was considered the black sheep. Laurie is currently completing a screenplay and a memoir about her experiences.

When Ross' wife Diana was diagnosed with cancer 2 years ago, Laurie was allowed back into their secret world. She has always suspected that her polygamous uncle Ross was fathering his own grandchildren, but nobody would listen.

"I talked to so many relatives about it," Laurie said, "but few believed me." A year
ago, Laurie and three other family members went to law enforcement with their
concerns. The Arizona DA's office decided to pursue the case. Then more family
members became involved, and the result is the explosive document you are about to read.

Dear Family Members,
We now know for a fact that members of our immediate family are involved in
incest. We have been suspicious for years, but believed that incest was
unlikely. However, new and disturbing evidence obligated us to find a
definitive answer; therefore, we conducted DNA testing.

The DNA test proved that our sister's son is without any doubt a product of
incest. His Y chromosome is exactly the same as ours. Given that other
children were born under equally suspicious circumstances, we assume that
these children are products of incest as well. Substantial evidence
indicates, and we are personally convinced, that our dad (Ross Wesley
LeBaron Jr), two of our brothers, and three of our sisters have engaged in
incestuous relations.

We recently confronted these members of our family and although they never
made any direct admissions of incestuous behavior, they did, in fact,
adamantly defend the practice. Also, through a number of statements made to
us, they confirmed our suspicions that our dad and oldest sister have been
engaging in an incestuous relationship for many years.

We tried through reason, logic and scientific research, to persuade them to
end their destructive beliefs and practice. Our efforts were to no avail.
We are left with public exposure as our best hope. We very much dislike
having to take actions against our family, but we believe it is absolutely
necessary to expose them and put an end to this outrageous, immoral, and
destructive conduct.

Our primary goal is to protect our youngest brother and sister, who are in
danger of eventually being compelled to participate in this heinous
lifestyle. It is our sincere hope that we can help and provide them with
the opportunity for a better life.

We hope and pray that our dad, brothers and sisters might come to understand
that their deluded and pernicious philosophy and belief system is simply
unnatural, genetically destructive and immoral, and that they will put an
end to the damage being done to their posterity.

With love sincerely,
Alaric C, LeBaron
David Uri LeBaron
Elend S, LeBaron

I don't know what will happen next, but I will say this....I can only imagine how
hard it must be to admit such a thing in your immediate family. I have seen Laurie
suffer because of this tragedy. This takes real courage. Considering that Ross is
one of the wealthiest polygamists in Utah, I can only hope for the sake of Laurie
and her family that Utah and Arizona law enforcement make speed to reel in this big fish. Ross LeBaron's youngest daughter is 15 years old, and everybody is concerned about her safety.

John Nickelson Funeral Today

John Nickleson was from SLC so I don't know him at all. His son died a year or so ago when he was cliff climbing. Anyone remember him, his family and have any of them left?

10 white vans all in a row

Today I followed ten white vans all in a row on the way to Hurricane. I do believe that it is a work project to go pick nuts at a pecan farm. Has anyone else seen them? Some have Nevada plates, Utah, Arizona. All with dark tinted windows.

Two more funerals

April Bateman Black wife of Orlin Black died of complications of cancer. Two of her children were admitted by special request. No one else (outside) was allowed. Howevcr the whole town came and gave her a great sendoff.

Afton Chatwin Cookes young daughter (don't know any details) funeral held at the ex-Jr High Bldg. I wonder if Gene even knows. He was "kicked" a while ago.

What's up with this site?

Hey, I can't see the Texas Polygamy page. It's just a bunch of jumbled up characters. Did this happen to anyone else? Did I get blocked off, Admin? If so, why?

Six Funerals, Six Weeks in A Row

Grandma Celesta (Bobbie) Darger died at 90

Robert Knudsons 14 yr old Daughter died of Leukimia

Grandma Piene

Ron Steeds 7 yr old son died from vehicle accident

Leo Pledger

Wayne Horsley died Dec 1 from pneumonia (funeral this week)

I hope I got the names and ages right. I like to hear about funerals because it gives me closure and makes me feel part of the community. Back in the days, we would have 3 to 5 a year but as the people have grown it happens more frequently.

Warren Jeffs Senteced

Click on the title; it will take you to the SLT page.
If I understand it correctly, a five- year- to- life sentence means the accused serves three to four years and then goes before a review board who decide, based on conduct and other things, how much further- if any- time needs to be served. Since the judge ordered they be served consecutively, that means Warren will be in prison for 6-8 years before going before the review board. The judge was kind enough to let the time Warren has already served at Purgatory since being captured be used against the 6-8 years. That means Warren will be in prison for at least 4 years. But first, he goes to Arizona for the trail there.
IMHO- it was very smart of the judge to order Warren to serve the sentences consecutively. We don't want him on the top ten most wanted list again. I also think He will be allowed his freedom after the first review. And if and when that happens, maybe, maybe he will conduct himself with just a little more kindness. Either that or come out more extreme and biased than ever.

Building Vanished

Tuesday Morning 5 cranes and over 100 men gathered at Nephi Barlow's steel building in Colo City, by nightfall it was gone. Prob headed to Texas. It was next to Meadowayne Dairy, on commercial land.

Boom town – FLDS in Eldorado

Wonder who is really controlling Warren's FLDS?

There is much construction at YFZ in Eldorado. One new house is complete – two - three started. Sewer and water completed for more construction by block. More warehouses completed and a new one starting. Rather strange stalls inside warehouse – reported as potato bins – who knows?? Pylons added by dairy ;another warehouse to be built ? New pivot irrigation system is up. Makes 2 working and one on the way. The other church is now complete and awesome in its beauty as you would expect. Reported that this is for normal services and temple is for special services.
As always, photos are public domain and yours to enjoy.

ThePilot

Warren denounces his prophethood

This was all over the radio yesterday. I read the article on it and Judge Shumate released this information to the media. Thoughts anyone?

The Aftermath

Not really an aftermath from a big storm, but it feels like it. Now we get to hear all about everyone's good intentions and the media will go back to normal and the people who are embarrassed by polygamy will pretend it never happened.
Until the next trail.......
And the next with a new victim and a new crime.....
Do you think people are afraid it will never end, or is this supposed to make it (abuse) stop....???

Gearing up for warren's trial

I read in the paper about several individuals that are being given the chance to testify at warren's trial. One of them stated, according to the report, that he would testify of how much warren controlled every aspect of the people's lives. It occurred to me that while I attended meetings and heard warren's teachings I never felt like he had any control over me. I wonder how others feel about this.

New Photos of FLDS in Eldorado

Lots of activity at FLDS in Eldorado, Texas! Looks like population has increased. New water well has been drilled. New attachment to a domicile has been added. Now it looks like a H house. A new church is almost finished in front of the temple. We were told that it would be the regular place of worship for FLDS in Eldorado and the temple is for special ceremonies and occasions. Another pad has been poured by front gate. New lines to fields have been trenched. Best of all, everyone was outside!! Lots of women and children in the gardens. Beautiful weather in west Texas. Photos are yours to enjoy....

Hearings Last Weekend

Someone asked for a new thread about the hearings last weekend. Here you go! :)

Subpoenas issued?

There is a rumor afloat that 80 subpoenas have been issued for warren's trial but those subpoenaed have all disappeared. Can anyone verify or put this to rest?

Ex Polygamous Daughter Speaks to ABC

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3337728&page=1

I thought the video was well done, the young gal seemed quite sweet.

Noreen Nielsen Birk Jeffs Funeral

Funeral held Friday at the LSJ Meeting House. She was Wendell Nielsens sister and has been in bad health for a while. It is always nice to hear about events at the time they happen than to hear it down the road a couple years. I don't think she was even living in CC. Wonder where she was living and why they had her funeral here? I sure liked her alot, this is one of the funerals that I would like to be able to go to.

Multimedia day with a polygamous Family

http://166.70.44.68/multimedia/pluralfamily/

Brooke Adams has a multimedia presentation, here is a snipped - An article comes out Sunday - this is a teaser. It was very tastefully done - I'd love to here feedback on what people think

Big Love Season 2

Tell us what you think about the HBO tv series second season.
The first episode of season 2 was aired last night. I turned to my husband and was like, "No! NO!" when it was over. (I'll have to wait a WHOLE week for more....sigh.....)

I found the bridal registery book rather interesting. Polariod photos of the prospective bride's bare feet (how sensual- just kidding), face, and back view(fully clothed in a 'prarie' dress) for prospective husbands to look at....hhmmmmm........

What really happened to Fred M. Jessop?

Fred M. Jessop, Bishop to the FLDS people, beloved and respected by many disappeared about 5 years ago. Nobody knew where he was (and the few who did weren't talking.)
I've heard all kinds of stories explainging this. I knew somebody who was living in 'Uncle' Fred's house at the time he was taken away. They were up in their room while it was happening, and later when they came downstairs all the mothers were crying.They asked where 'Uncle' Fred was, they were told not to worry about it. Will moved in that same day and took over.

I spoke with someone else the other day who had very recently left Colorado City. I heard from this person Uncle Fred was just dumped in some city and told to never contact his family again. The nurse attending him when he died said it was of a broken heart, and none of the FLDS people were there for him in his last moments. And it was all done by Warren so he could begin his 'reign of terror'.

This absolutely breaks my heart.

Does anyone know if it is true?

Are Monuments Disappearing From CC Cemetery?

Anon asked for a new thread "concerning the disappearance of monuments from the graves of prominent people at the CC cemetery."

Please anon, post more:

• who -- which prominent people
• what is happening
• when
• why

New Photos of Eldorado FLDS

Sorry it has been so long. I have been pre-occupied with job, wife, dogs and farm. Nothing much has changed enough to warrant photos until this month. Place exploded with construction of all types. Domiciles, warehouses, pivot irrigation and fuel depots. FLDS in Eldorado have been REAL busy lately. Great rains have turned our little desert town into an oasis. It is not usually this green. Photos are yours to enjoy but VERY large.... The Pilot

Sam Fischer Moving to Lockney, TX

Since bbgae asked about Sam Fischer moving his business (and family) to Lockney, Texas (located in the Panhandle), I thought it might be best to discuss it in it's own thread. So far it's been referred to in the "Mother's Day" and "Maybe Warren's Malady..." threads.

If you want to follow this story (or any FLDS story) the HOPE Organization does an excellent job of posting on their website every news story that goes to press.
http://thehopeorg.org/news.html

Mother's Day

Let's dedicate this thread to all those special women in our lives. Our mothers, sisters, daughters, grandmothers, granddaughters, and friends. And to anyone who may have touched our lives and brought us love and understanding when we needed it the most whomever they are.

Maybe warren's malady is not FLDS specific?

I do not justify the FLDS for their position in regards to warren. I do hope this story will help some who think it is only the culture and lifestyle of the FLDS that have led them to where they are to see that it is more human nature than otherwise. (Click the thread title to read article).

How Warren hid from the Law

I read an interesting article on the Salt Lake Tribune Polygamy site about a Musser who was called on a work mission by Warren to protect some of his wives in 'safe houses'. A riveting story- I suggest it to anyone.

The Ten Commandments

I just recently watched Hallmark's Ten Commandments.

IMHO- the old one was better ( and shorter?) although there was a lot more detail in this one. I learned something I did not know before, but should have realized: Moses is considered a prophet (Holy man, man of God, whatever) by Christians, Muslims, and Jews. And that his code of moral conduct has withstood the test of time. We have the New Testiment, but I think we all (or most of us) use the ten commandments as the root of moral conduct.

God and Evloution

God created the Earth and all things therein (I think that might be a quote from somewhere...)

Evolution is a natural process taking hundreds of thousands of years to ensure the survival and adaption of various species of life... blah, blah, blah... We all know the rest.

I personally don't see why there has to be a debate on this one, because I think God USES evolution.... But, I know there are many people who fell VERY strongly about one side or the other. So, I made this thread just for a debate on this subject. I think it will be interesting... Tell us what you think!

C'mon! You know I love science.... of COURSE I was going to do this.... :)

Latest News of the 'Colorado City Eight'

This is the newest development in Dale Barlow's court case. He is number seven of the eight men charged.

Party at Cottonwood Park

Who on the blog was at the Easter party on Saturday? I was so thrilled to see so many people coming together. I saw people with many different "looks" and lives coming back to their roots and moving toward having a community again. Who organized it. It was awesome, with tons of food, games for the kids and reuniting with old friends.I also saw some guys shooting photos? Were you there Jax? Keep the positive stuff coming

the number of dogs in town

I was looking out my front door yesterday when I noticed a small truck with a dog that took up the WHOLE back of the truck (it was a St Bernard). Late at night I can hear dogs barking all around me now. Who gave the order? or are the people just so tired of being wound up so tight they can't move.

Faith in God

I am pretty sure we all agree on this one- the evidence of a Higher Power. (Except maybe a few.)

Durring the times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of footprints, it was then that I carried you. ~Footprints in the Sand

Master, the Tempest is Raging~ Hymn

These are a few things that come to mind for me. Any thoughts or expierences that anyone has on this subject would be welcome here. I also thought it would be nice, because Easter is right around the corner.

Merry Wives Cafe brings flavor to polygamist town

How about this: a new sit-down cafe in the twin towns. Anyone tried it?

The above title is a Deseret News link. Here's another one (same subject) in Brooke Adams' Tribune blog dated March 27th.

Hey, Atari, if you make that trip, give the Merry Wives a try and tell us what you think.

A prophet no more? Jeffs called himself a 'sinner' in jailhouse conversation

Discussion about this should have its own thread.

Click the title - it's a link to the story in the Deseret News this morning.

Edited the link; it's fixed. Thanks!

Leona Jeffs Allred "Jeffs"

This has bothered me for a long, long time. If any of you out there were to her funeral, or to the church meeting afterward, you know what I am talking about.
Technically, this means all of 'Aunt' Lucy Barlow's children (Louis) who are 'Allreds' are technically REALLY 'Jeffs'.

Homosexuals Championing Polygamy for Own Cause?

This is a fascinating subject. It started as an argument about the HBO series Big Love. Here is a little place just for the continuation of this debate. Blog it on!

Positive expierences, thoughts, and memories of FLDS

Ok. Here we go.
This is for all those people who might try to agrue that all we discussed here on this blog about the FLDS is neagtive and biased.... Please post only the positive here and leave the other issues for other threads.

Warren's 'Release'

According to anonymous posting a little while back, "Warren Jeffs is supposed to be released from prison from a period March 15-28."
I'm pretty sure we all agree this won't happen, but I thought it would be fun to watch as it developes into nothing....

Carl Holm Family

I have heard the rumor that Carl Holm's elderly wives have been separated and spread around the community. Story has it that Richard Holm (Carl's Son) is now in posession of the property. Can anyone verify or put to rest the rumor?

Sign up for Google Account

The powers that be at Blogger/Google made the decision to migrate this blog to the Google side of their empire. Regular contributors need to sign up for a Google Account with their old user name. Just follow this LINK.

It's fairly straight forward. Once you've established your new google account you can log in and create new posts just like it was in the old days.

Sorry for the inconvenience.
Weblog Administrator

Blogger Problems

Blogger seems to be having problems migrating this blog to a new Google Account. I have been in contact with Tech Support at Google and they are working on it. Those of you who who are having problems posting, please be patient. I'm told the size of the blog, and its archives are part of the problem, but have been assured that the problems will be cleared up. Once again, please be patient, and thanks for your understanding.

Weblong Admin

Did WJ have a mental breakdown?

This rumor has cropped up from several sources. I know the article in the Deseret News that mentioned his transport two weeks ago to Dixie Regional only stated it was heart problems. Is there more to the story? Perhaps the source of the story would fill us in on the details or confirm that it is a rumor.

Western Precision Building for sale

So, I guess the big building will be up for sale by the end of the month. I wonder what changes that will bring. Good ones, I hope.
Also, the Dale E. Barlow trial began on the 14th. Anyone know how that one is comming along?

Warren Jeffs Taken to Hospital

Warren Jeffs, leader of the FLDS Church, was taken to a hospital earlier this week after he was found "distressed." Some former members of his polygamist group wonder if the incident had to do with one of his prophecies.

Three years ago Jeffs prophesized that he would die a martyr and this latest medical scare has former members of his wondering if Jeffs is getting a little nervous that prophecy may not be fulfilled.

Click the title above to read more

Does anyone want to tackle this one?

This question was posed on a thread and I thought that maybe it would be a good topic. I took jqseer as asking some one in the FLDS to respond so I didn't as I am no longer a member. Perhaps someone could help him understand that has been there since I have....

"I read some of the comments from other people on your other posts.... i just had a couple of questions.... do people really get kicked out? or are there a set of standards that if they are not followed the get the choice to straighten up or get out? with you having been a part of them or have family in there i thought you might have an idea and it seems people post on that are currently a member. if you can or will help me understand this or anyone that reads this comment can email me at drag8racer@yahoo.com. put something in the comment line so i wont accidently delete it. the info i get is completely confidential and i will be the only one to read it... im just trying to understand distant relatives. my grandpa and some barlows and zittings worked together in the 30's and things so... "

Fundamentalism in any form

I just finished watching the film 'Jesus Camp', honestly, it wasn't that shocking, and really did not show true Christian fundamnetalism at it's extreme. It focused mainly on the children, which was it's purpose. But it does give you a window into the concept of fundamentalism. Much the same way that 'Banking on Heaven' did for the FLDS.

1. You are chosen specially, and other people do not have your special understanding, insight and prophetic red line to God.
2. You begin by feeling pitty towards others, and it turns into superiority, as you embrace your 'special calling'.
3. Your committment to your belief is evidenced in everything that you do, eating, sleeping, breathing and working and other see your devotion.
4. You do not allow yourself to question the words given to you by your leaders. Your trust in them is unparrallelled.
5. You are intolerant of anyone who does not support your beliefs or views.

It becomes about Gods laws, not Gods love as it moves across the spectrum of fundamentalism. What started as something good slowly twists into an unrecognizable form of what began. It's brittle and hard, and splinters easily. A force big enough will crush it, but it will always survive, in the razor sharp shards it leaves behind.

New Photos of FLDS in Eldorado

Hello World,

The house that was under construction is finished. Sugar cane has been harvested and fields are plowed, ready for new crop. Most of the water lines have been installed. Close up of water tank reveals omni wireless antenna. Women and children are out this time.. several photos. Deer and antelope are everywhere and being fed by multiple feeders. Warehouses have been enlarged for something.

All is calm. Warren’s incarceration has had little effect on compound. They are as busy as they always have been. Enjoy..

News from South Dakota

I saw this link on the Nevada Polygamy site and thought it may have some interest here as well. If you click on the title of the thread you can read the story and see the video of the compound there. I have family that is scattered somewhere within warren's kingdom. Any news bits can possibly help to locate them. They have chosen to cut off ties with me and I do not wish to force myself on them. At the same time knowing where they are and that they are OK is some comfort. I am sure there are hundreds who feel as I do. Somewhere in one of the posts here an anonymous poster stated that David Allred had property in Alabama. They were unable to add any details as to exact location or were unwilling to do so. If anyone can add any info on this please post it here as well.

another funeral

Veta Barlow's funeral is today and of course no one except the "invited" are allowed. How do a people who used to be loving and kind become so cruel and neglecting.

Funeral Today 1/10

Glenn and Elaine Barlows daughter had a seizure and died.

Sam Y.'s child was playing in the yard and had a freak accident with a rope.

FLDS have private funerals and graveside.

This corner of the world

Merry Christmas to all! From the town with no Christmas lights and all businesses open Monday Morning. (bet you couldn't find another town like that across the US)

Sunday morning Paul Holms' house (Joe Knudson's old house) caught on fire, I assume from a plugged chimney. Within hours, they had framing crews, dumpsters, manlifts, forklifts and work crews over framing it back together. It is all closed in by Monday and they redid the entire roof by moonlight Monday night.

Out of the 12 empty houses abandoned by the FLDS, one is a 20 bed/20 bath house in Hildale and one of simular size in CC. What do you think about that?

Kyle Steed (Nate Steeds son) story was a rumor. It's not true.

John Nielson (Jeffs) moved out of town with 7+ wives and family and his Nielson Door business building is for sale. Reliance Lighting Building for sale too! First ever Real Estate signs in this town.

Merry Christmas

I just wanted to let you all know how much I have enjoyed our sharing and debating over the past couple years. As you know I can get my 'prickles and stings' a rolling (which is not necessarily a good thing).

I do want you guys to know that I have learned from you, and I respect you. I came in here with my strong opinions, and you guys have CHANGED them - which is by no means an easy thing to do.

I learned about your religions, and I learned about myself. It might seem rather silly to wax nostalgic on a blog, but it has been a good year. Every person who came on this blog and shared and every arrow laden debate have all been something I look forward to. If I didn't respect you guys, it wouldn't make this nearly so interesting.

I can't wait to see how TBM, FTTC, Faithful, Furnace, and a myriad of others have to say about a certain topic. I wonder what will happen to warren, but mostly - what I want is for each and every soul out there to be able to find their own life. No matter what they choose, I want them to choose it. I hope that all children will not be confronted with life long decisions in their youth.

So Merry Christmas, and thank you for sharing part of yourself with me.

FLDS IN ELDORADO- CHRISTMAS

FLDS in Eldorado has been very busy in the last month. They have completed a home and green metal building believed to be a refinery for sugar cane. They also have added many slabs to existing metal buildings, substantially adding square feet. This round of photos center on commercial or industrial buildings rather than domiciles. The incarceration of Warren has little effect on FLDS in Eldorado.
Closer shots this time of tombstone on the grave of FLDS lady. I have heard it was very beautiful with scripted writing . I am sorry for your loss.

FLDS is turning rock land that is not very good to fertile farm land by digging to base, using rocks and limestone for their roads and replacing with fertile black soil; very ingenious but labor intensive. Kudos to FLDS for their ingenuity and work ethic.

Enjoy the photos. They are my gift to you and may everyone have a safe and Merry Christmas.

Officer Fred Barlow "Jeffs" swears his allegiance to Warren

This letter was published in the Salt Lake Tribune as an investigation involving the Colorado City/ Hildale police officers continues. Read it and be amazed!!!

six more families leave town

six more homes were found vacant...Two of the homes were occupied by Jeffs'. Where they are now is anyones guess, since there isn't much building going on in Texas.

Honest Opinions

An anon on the Texas Blog asked someone to post it. I went, found it interesting - and so I'm posting.

My honest opinion.

1. It was too long
2. It was well written
3. It made some great points
4. It made polygamists victims - I don't agree

I guess the hoopla about freedom, autonomy, and etc etc that he spouts - you'd think at least he'd respect the freedom of the press to photograph or hire helicopters etc etc.

It seemed rather whiney and pathetic at that point - hey, you wanna see someone haggled by the press - go visit a celeb. I can see photos of them practically consumating their vows it's so intrusive. I rarely see the prairie dress clad set garning the cover of any magazine - much less the dozens that line the checkout at my local grocery now dissecting Brittany's new friendship with Paris.

Anyhoo, he name dropped enough that we know he has more experience than most us monogomists with the polygamist crowd, and he made logical interesting arguments.

I honestly couldn't read the whole thing today, perhaps again tomorrow. It was so long it really needed chapters. I think I agree with a few of his conclusions, and disagree with others.

http://oneutah.org/2006/06/03/polygamy-monogamy-and-monotheism-the-one-and-the-many/

Photos of Warren in Shorts and Naomi in Jeans

I couldn't believe it when I saw these photos. If you go through the photo slideshow you will see warren wearing his shorts and short sleeve shirts, Isaac, and Naomi in jeans. For me it was interesting to see how similar they all looked.

http://extras.sltrib.com/tribphoto/gallery.asp?ID=49050&GID=WARRE_1120&Pubdate=&sort=Gallery

UEP Meeting Today!

7:00 Hildale Town Hall

Warren's Trial Tomorrow

FLDS denied Govt Benefits

Why are the FLDS having a hard time getting SSI and other govt benefits?

Other than the fact that Flora has lied on National TV and a very awful article on handicappped children..does it really have that much influence on the government agencys? (They say they are scared to come to town since WJ is in jail.) I thought if you qualified...you qualified.

Joseph Rohbocks Story

Joseph asked me to summarize his story and then post it, however, I don't think I could do it justice, and so I am posting it in several parts. He has stated it is ok to do this.

Grandpa Fred Peine Funeral

Funeral Happened early Wednesday Morning. No announcements, no word to outside family members.

New Photos of FLDS in Eldorado

I am sorry for the long absence of photos. There was nothing new to even take a picture of until now. I have a different camera with wide angle lens so I experimented with the first 5 or six shots. FLDS sugar cane is looking great. Cleaning up and beautifying the place seem to take precedence over new construction. They finished a house started in July, but the foundation to the east shows no progress; highly unusual since FLDS can build a house from start to finish in two weeks.

A grave of small child is in two to three photos also. The grave is about 50 yards from the southwest corner of the cement plant. It is just east of another grave of a female who died about a year ago. Neither grave has a marker on it; just a small circle of stone is the only way you would know someone's child or wife is there. My condolences to the loss of both.

As always, photos are yours to enjoy....

Study Free at MIT

A technical group I belong to passed this along. Since I firmly believe we all need to keep learning throughout our lives - and I feel it's especially needed among separatist groups such as the FLDS - this is a wonderful resource! I'm looking into it for myself and consider it an excellent opportunity for those of us who appreciate and avidly pursue self-learning. This is "...a free and open educational resource (OER) for educators, students, and self-learners around the world."

See Comments for the full message.

Comment Moderation

Once again OTS has proven incapable of communicating without resorting to vulgaraties. Therefore, I am forced turn comment moderation back on. This means anonymous comments won't be posted automatically. I will review and approve them as time allows. In the meantime, regular contributors to this blog can still post and comment, as long as you sign in. Only comments from anonymous, or non-contributors will be delayed.

Thank You, Street. What a class act you are.

WJ Tape Released

Warren Jeffs released tape to the faithful that says he is treated well by the prison guards and to pray for them. He says he was locked up in jail for his own protection. God has a hand over all. God will let him go when he is safe.

However only the men are allowed to listen to the tape and only if there are no current rumors about them and they are sworn to secretcy to not even tell their wives about it.

3 Year Old Boy Dies in Crash at YFZ

How does something like this happen?

This is just a snip of the article - for the full article - click the title to be taken to the San Angelo Times website for the full article.

ELDORADO, Texas - A 3-year-old boy was killed and another child was injured Thursday when a minivan they were riding in crashed on a ranch owned by polygamist sect led by Warren Jeffs.

Allen Rulon Jeffs was pronounced dead at a local hospital, and 3-year-old Richard Rulon Jeffs was in critical condition Thursday night. Isaac Steed Jeffs Jr., 3, and the driver, Barbara Joy Jessop, were treated and released, the San Angelo Standard-Times reported Friday.

TEXAS POLYGAMY

True Measure of a Man

Before i ever left the creek, questions churned deep inside my soul that i could not shake.

What is the true measure of a man, if everything he does is only to impress someone else?

Would he:

Give his last dollar if no one was watching him?

Adopt a small family and take them into his own and care for them if he wasn't commanded too?

Teach his family what he thought was right if he wasn't scared of losing them?

Give contributions to needy causes, to make this world a better place if it wasn't demanded from the pulpit?

Visit his children that were on the outside if he knew he wouldn't get "caught"?

What do you think?
I think almost every FLDS is living a lie and they don't even know it.

Flora Jessop

I did not think I would be calling on Flora Jessop to substantiate her claims. It's the last thing I expected. I assumed all those who claimed she is a liar, and demonized her must be feeling the sting of her truly spoken words.

That is why I never expected to feel this way. 'She's a previous victim, she knows the community, she's out now - and she's telling all the secrets'. Her credibility was bullet proof for me - UNTIL NOW.

To understand what I am talking about listen to the audio file below from a recent 2006 ex-mormon conference. Flora's schpeel is about half way through. She makes scurrilous allegations about the Mohave County Investigator, his living situation, and his professional integrity.

Linda Walker and Flora Jessop: "The Church, Child Abuse and the Law: Case Studies of Civil Complaints".

Flora is considered by many an expert in the polygamous area, and thus her reputation and the her credibility of her testimony is paramount. Perhaps this expertise has gone unchecked for so long, with only the FLDS crying foul that she plays loose and free with reality in order to garner a positive response for her mission. Perhaps she just has bad information.

If you want to be seen as a credible reporter of facts, the truthfulness, accuracy, objectivity and public accountability of the facts you report needs to be a standard. Without that, there is no credibility.

In my opinion, Floras credibility with those NOT associated with the FLDS is in jeopardy. I have emailed Jay Beswick, and on several board asked for Flora to either substantiate or apologize for the information she presented at that meeting.

THUS FAR, no response.

I will assume - if no response comes that Flora cannot substantiate those allegations, but refuses to apologize.

ANY RESPONSE is better than none. I will find myself questioning every word from her lips should she not address this issue. I'm rather disillusioned at this point anyhow - and I doubt I'm the only one.

James Allred, Richard Allred, Joseph Allred Booted

James Allred's family is getting broken up and moved around. The power of conquering and dividing. James was in jail 6 months for contempt of court for refusing to answer the judge. He was released after WJ was caught. Since then he was axed and I hear he is being charged with mail fraud. Colorado State police called to talk to his family and no one would talk. He is being held in a mental hospital as a danger to himself. Goes to show that Warren's power goes beyond the jail.
David and Guy Allred run a big piece of the show and look what they would do to their father.

Harvest Festival was a complete success.

We had free helicopter rides, train rides, four wheeler rides, horse and buggy rides, greased pig chase, fun and games.

We have the power to close the stores and stations and restaurants. It's awesome. All we have to do is have a party. Next time we will party for a week and see if they keep the store closed. :)

Midwife quits in Hildale Health Clinic

Heard that all of Shirley's patients were sent to find a different Doctore this week. Anyone else have more info?

Rumor of James A. suicide attempt

Anyone heard of the details?

"New" edict from Jeffs?

From KSL News today:

"On Tuesday, during a hearing regarding the property trust, it was revealed that Jeffs had issued a new edict to his followers: "Do not sign your name to any document for property that has already been consecrated to God." Jeffs was not at the hearing.

This latest proclamation could complicate plans to reform the 110-million dollar United Effort Plan Trust. A judge is just days away from approving a historic change to the trust by signing a proposed reform plan that would create individual property owners.

Non-FLDS members would likely be the first to receive property, and FLDS member who don't sign the papers would live under a homeowners association. "
(emphasis mine)

Transcript of Warren Jeffs' talk Jan. 28, 2003

Has anyone ever seen warren full of emotion? Does anyone know where the monotone, speech originated - is it tradition? Does everyone speak that way? Is it considered better to speak that way?

If anyone can enlighten me on origins of the soft monotone voice I would be interested.

Do you think warren, if convicted, will ever be in general population? If so, do you think this demeanor might change with the added stress of general population?

Is This True? No More Schooling in CC???

Quote from a source on 'another' forum:

"I heard through the grapevine that Warren has sent out an edict that he wants no more home schooling there. No more public education, no more private education, no more education PERIOD. That's outrageous. If they are abusing their children, they are giving up their rights. The state needs to go in and test those children rigorously and make sure they're being properly educated."

Can anyone corroborate, refute or rebut?

There are compulsory education laws in all 50 states. Are FLDS homeschooled children required to take standardized achievement tests?

Colorado law now bans common law marriage under 18

DENVER- As developments continue in the preliminary hearing for polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs, a new Colorado law goes into effect saying common-law marriage is not valid unless both parties are at least 18. The new law went into effect September 1. State Representative Gwyn Green, D-Golden/Lakewood, and Senator Betty Boyd, D-Lakewood, sponsored the legislation during the special session on illegal immigration.

“This law was the right thing to do for the state and for our children,” Rep. Green said.

Read More

His Favorite Wife

Does anyone know this gal, or have they read her book? I've never even heard of it until today when I read this article, and it will appear at 10 AM on ABC Keith Ablow show some point in the future. I've never heard of Keith Ablow either.

REID CALLS FOR FEDERAL TASK FORCE TO INVESTIGATE CHILD ABUSE AND POLYGAMY

WASHINGTON, D.C. – U.S. Senator Harry Reid of Nevada sent a letter today to U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales suggesting the creation of a federal task force to investigate the interstate activity of the polygamist community in the western United States. In addition, Reid asked the Justice Department to provide any necessary assistance to state prosecutors in the case of polygamist sect leader Warren Steed Jeffs.

Remembering September 11th

I have just recently been made aware that FLDS view 9/11 as something that the United States Government 'set up' so that they could take more control over the citizens of this country, as well as the citizens of the world.

This saddens me, not because I believe it to be true, but because they consider their own government this evil. The filtering of information in this manner is disconcerting, and I am saddened.

Good Ole Times

Remember this thread. Boy didn't we have a good time with this one. I just wanted to remind everyone that we weren't always arguing - we were sometimes 'casting'!

Underage Girls Across State/Country Lines for Marriage

Does anyone know the names of the girls who were underage and went to Canada, Mexico, or across a state line when they married.

The men held in Contempt

Does anyone have information on the men held in jail on Contempt of Court charges from the Grand Jury proceedings? Leroy Jeffs, Mica Barlow and others were released according to an article I read. Does anyone know where they are now? The story was that Leroy was given the repentance boot. Is he back again in the fold? And what is up with Nephi Jeffs. Rumor had it that he was sent to repent. With his appearance in court at the hearing and his visit to the jail in Clark County is he forgiven now?

What happens now?

Any one know what the FLDS will do? There must be rumblings...

New Photos of FLDS in Eldorado

Warren can probably manage the FLDS better now that he is in jail than a fugitive. Many mafia Dons have done so successfully in the past. No sign of construction slowing down. New slabs are being poured around warehouses. Two new homes are being constructed. New water lines are still being installed. Pit by dairy is intriguing. Fantastic hay crop considering we are getting 95 dollars a bale due to drought. Not as much interest from the media as I thought there would be. Cooler heads have prevailed and kudos go to our local sheriff David Doran for not trying to be like the feds that botched Waco. His Intel told him that Warren was not at the local compound. He has taken a lot of heat but not a shot was fired and not a child injured! Utah and Arizona owe this man an apology!

Chapter 2 of this Saga has just begun. Stay tuned and “ Keep Sweet”.

WARREN STEED JEFFS ARRESTED

The FBI says fugitive polygamist Mormon sect leader Warren Steed Jeffs has been arrested in Las Vegas, The Associated Press reports.

Media Gets it Wrong Again

Here's an article from the Deseret Morning News about polygamy in Colorado City:

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,645196473,00.html

As is typical with the media, half of the information is wrong. But half is true.

Val

Can someone tell me a little bit more about Val?

Newsworthy Event

Shane and Sherrie moved in the house that Theil and Linda Cooke turned over to the UEP when they moved out. Theil Jr had over 30 men there to protect him and help him not let them in. When Officer Helaman came and saw the paper from Bruce, Theil Jr handed over the keys to the house. Shane told him, cousin you can stay with me, no need to move out.

Leona Graham Funeral

She died Tues. Funeral Today would be my guess. There are people digging at the Graveyard. I wonder if they asked Bruce Wisan if they could bury her there. I think that is UEP Land.

Is It Really Mormon Polygamy or is it Something Else

The Main question here, is, what is it there doing?? And it keeps going back to this, because it is the reason for all the problems. Are they living Mormon Polygamy? Like they claim, or is just a tradition they are living which has lost the most important part?

Like the LDS most fundamental Mormon groups are trying to keep alive Mormon traditions and life styles of the religion. And NONE of them can do so without the guidance of the Almighty. And all the ones I know of, don't have the help of the Almighty.
The LDS in there darkness keep the tradition of Conference twice a year and missionaries out in the country. Conference twice a year was needed back then because people came in horse and buggy. They didn't have television and radio, therefore it was the only way to do it..
Now you can broadcast live from Salt Lake City around the world to every LDS Chapel every Sunday with the First Presidency message. Instead they use youth speakers, what a BORING WASTE OF TIME. Puts everbody to sleep every Sunday in every LDS Chapel in the country.
Why keep Conference twice a year??
Because in the darkness of their minds it represents some religious tradition that has some significance. When in fact it was the only way they could do it back in pioneer days. It has no special meaning and they can't even see that. Having not the guidance of the Almighty they fail to move on to more modern means of communication. The same difference with missionaries.

Polygamy can't possibly be lived without guidance from the Almighty. The FLDS and other Mormon groups have everybody in the group live polygamy.. Well that does'nt work. Its not Mormon Polygamy it is something else. In this day and age only a man with CONSIDERABLE income could possibly come close to affording having several wifes. Something most groups try and work around with welfare from the state. That's NOT a good idea.

Feedback on "BANKING ON HEAVEN"

muggsey said...
I watched "Banking on Heaven" last night. I was impressed by testimony of victims. Those people did not imagine their predicament. I especially noticed the harassment and shunning of locals toward the film crew.

Do you think that by ignoring the problem it will disappear? Will it take extreme measures to correct the situation. The rest of this country want children to grow up without fear of abuse. Women the right to wait until they are physically and mentally mature to marry. Young men to have the opportunity to marry. A ban against any girl being forced to marry a man twenty or more years her senior. Each family unit to be self sustaining without governmental handouts. A severe penalty being imposed upon a man who engages in sodomy with young boys or girls and/or incest leading to the birth of a child born of a daughter being bred by her natural father.

8/17/2006 10:34 AM

Has anyone else seen the film? What did you think?

Monogamy has Problems

This is typically why monogamy doesn't work on a lot of levels. Deserves repeating for all you liberated women who are SINGLE. And will probably stay so.

women said:I would expect that from you. 36 is too old for starting a family? Since you are "Fundy" of course .........

Fundy says: The problem here is if you haven't found somebody to start a family with by 36, odds are your not going to find anybody period.

On the outside all the good men are already taken. And there is room for no more.You being in the gentile world you are SOL. Unless one of the better men happens to get free....

You hoping to find someone but your odds are against you. You may never find someone. In the gentile world if you get beyond a certain age when most young people are getting married, 18 to about 25 or so. Your chances of finding someone decrease every year you stay single. Its been my observation that women who get to your age without being married usually, but not always, have some type of problem that keeps them from marriage.

However I don't claim to know your situation personally.
Good luck

Replies to Fundy's Polygamy Threads

If you wish to respond to any of Fundy's comments please do so here so they can be kept up on the blog.

Legalizing Polygamy Would Recognize Culture, History

Whether we like it or not, polygamy is an undeniable part of Utah's past, present and future. An enlightened public policy should accept and live with that simple fact. The people who believe polygamy to be an essential part of their religion should not, for that reason, be penalized or denied any of their civil rights.
With the spirit of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as a guide ("Congress shall make no law respecting instabilities of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; . . . "), it is easy to recognize that "perfect toleration of religious sentiment" requires the majority of Utahns, who reject polygamy as a way of life, to be tolerant of the small minority of Utahns who believe, as part of their religion, that plural marriage is the key to their eternal salvation. If the threat of legal sanctions against polygamists in Utah were removed, and if (as guaranteed by the first paragraph of Article III in the Utah StateConstitution) the religious sentiment of a relatively small minority regarding polygamy were tolerated by the majority, then polygamists inUtah could be publicly open and honest about their families.

Don't Post In Any Thread Fundy Starts

If you look below this thread, there are two more threads which fundy has started, you can see who started them by looking at the name underneath the last line.

Fundy likes to erase his threads. Which means you might have been having a really interesting discussion, or there is important information on a thread you would like to make reference to, and poof it's gone.

I'll try and post reminders as often as I can at the bottom of his threads. Please post responses to Fundy's topics in a different thread - ANY thread, the conversation will start over.

If everyone can remind people NOT to post on Fundy's threads, and if we can be more assertive about starting a new blog topic for people to have discussion that would be great.

Polygamy, LDS Lies and More Lies

The newest Mormon Relief Society (women's auxiliary) manual mentions Brigham Young, second president of the church, as having only one wife. In truth, Young had 56 wives.

The LDS Church, which brought polygamy with it to Utah during the mid-1800s, has been busy trying to induce amnesia by pretending the faithful never lived polygamy or ever defended it as a commandment from God. The LDS Church as an institution will barely accept its own history about polygamy much less take responsibility for the legacy left by it.

The LDS are trying their best to lie to everyone, including their very OWN members. IF YOU ARE LDS you really need to understand the amount of lies that your leadership, Gordon B. Hinkleberry, are trying to feed you.

The point here is how do you trust a church which is obviously lieing to its members? When are they telling the truth and when are they lieing? All you LDS out there, You Cannot trust a church which lies to you.
The truth be known, Hinkleberry is only a relic, which is used for display purposes only. Other people are in charge at the LDS church.

Brigham Young on Atonement

"There are sins that men commit for which they cannot receive forgiveness in this world, or in that which is to come, and if they had their eyes open to see their true condition, they would be perfectly willing to have their blood spilt upon the ground, that the smoke thereof might ascend to heaven as an offering for their sins; and the smoking incense would atone for their sins, whereas, if such is not the case, they will stick to them and remain upon them in the spirit world."I know, when you hear my brethren telling about cutting people off from the earth, that you consider it is strong doctrine; but it is to save them, not to destroy them...."And further more, I know that there are transgressors, who, if they knew themselves, and the only condition upon which they can obtain forgiveness, would beg of their brethren to shed their blood, that the smoke thereof might ascend to God as an offering to appease the wrath that is kindled against them, and that the law might have its course. I will say further; I have had men come to me and offer their lives to atone for their sins."It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by men, yet men can commit sins which it can never remit.... There are sins that can be atoned for by an offering upon an altar, as in ancient days; and there are sins that the blood of a lamb, or a calf, or of turtle dove, cannot remit, but they must be atoned for by the blood of the man." (Sermon by Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 53-54); also published in the Mormon Church's Deseret News, 1856, page 235)

Rhoda Stubbs Funeral

Rhoda Stubbs wife of Lawrence Ritchie Stubbs died at the age of 91. Col LeBaron, Mexico. Mother to many, loved by all.

What Happened to the Harvest Festival?

Was is scratched? There was a thread posted here and then it was taken down. Did I miss something?

Carl Johnson Funeral

9:00 Thursday Morning

Carl Johnson son of Orval and Rose Johnson
died of a roll over accident
approx 20 years old

no mention in newspaper, will prob be buried in a unmarked grave
The last few funerals have been at peoples houses with just a graveside service.
Today's service is at the LSJ Meeting House.

Rick Holm's son was at Ed's House
Charles Williams funeral was at Tom Holm's house
Elmer Barlow was at Ladell Bistlines house.
(I hope I have the names right)

Larry King and "BANKING ON HEAVEN"

I've just learned that the Larry King show featuring Carolyn Jessop and "BANKING ON HEAVEN" has been postponed yet again due to events in the Middle East. As of today I have no information on the new date when it'll run. Sorry for all the conflicting info I'm sending you. It's frustrating on this end too.

Here's a fantastic summary of what law enforcement is up to regarding Warren Jeffs:
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17030358&BRD=2318&PAG=461&dept_id=484045&rfi=6

And here's a rather surprising news item about polygamist children:
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_4155825

Western Precision leaving Town

Saturday night a dozen diesel trucks surrounded WP facility in Hildale. Fifty or more trucks and cars lined the roads and parking lot. All the big machining machines were loaded on diesel trailers, today they were loading the office furniture. (ya,ya,ya uh huh) do you hear the music?
Three Nielson Door trailers and trucks full of household furniture were spotted on the freeway to Las Vegas.
Sure are glad to see them leaving. May they be blessed to pay exorbient rent in Las Vegas. WJ has cursed the town and has told them to not put any more into the UEP. The Cottonwood Park has been abandoned. (but, hey the Maxwell was open Last Sunday) It was reported that Guy Allred's family has moved. A new family just moved in.
A group of Harkers/Jeffs were spotted in Rosarito, Mexico. Maybe Steven is hanging out there for now?
LeGrande Hammon was there too.

David Draper

Another death to add to Warren's list of debts he must repay to society.

The Origin of Mormon Polygamy

Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines--"Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same."For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory...."And again, very I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant,... they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation... "Then they shall be gods, because they have no end;..."God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife...."Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, commanded it...."Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness,..."David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants,... and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me."David's wives and concubines were given unto him of me,..."And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God...."Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him;..."And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood--if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery with that belongeth unto him and to no one else."And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified."

Is It Really Mormon Polygamy???

The question here is , in Colorado City are they really living Bible or Mormon Polygamy???

And the answer here is unequivocally NO.... They are not living Bible or Mormon Polygamy.
Although that's what they claim. Such is not the case....NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

And neither are 99% of other Mormon groups... Regardless of the old timey clothes and long sleeves they are NOT living Mormon Polygamy as defined by Joseph Smith.

They are living a Communal Family hippie life style... Polygamy under the early Mormon Church never involved the entire membership at all.. It was only about 10% or less. You cannot, absolutely not, live Mormon Polygamy without the direction of the Almighty.

IT IS NOT MORMON POLYGAMY THEY ARE LIVING. Regardless of what the FLDS are telling you.

It is much the same as the LDS temple work. Temple Work was never meant to be done for every person who ever lived. That's ridiculous. Only those who actually needed it . And the names were provided by ministering Angels from Heaven above. They lost the ministering of Angels and now they are in the dark. And don't know to proceed. Their works are without meaning and are dead works.

Interview Tonight with "BANKING ON HEAVEN" Producer

I just got a call that "BANKING ON HEAVEN"s producer will be interviewed live tonight at 9:00 on the St. George radio station. Sorry, but I wasn't able to get the call letters. These radio & TV interviews are never predictable.

Please tune in if you're in range and post your rections.

bankingonheaven.com

Blood Atonement

The FLDS under Warren Jeffs without doubt believe in the doctrine of blood atonement. As do a majority of other Mormon fundamentalist groups.
Brigham Young President of the LDS Church set this doctrine into effect some 200 years ago. It was his inspired opinion that there were sins committed by people of such severity that repentance through the atonement on the cross was not enough to free that individual from the sins that they committed. And that it was an act of sincere concern and love for their well being in the next life, if their blood was spilt ( killed with blood spilt) in order to pay the price for their sins. Some what perplexing how this would work in an imperfect world with leaders like WJ... This is a very, very dangerous doctrine. One can only imagine what might happen when trying to live this doctrine. Or maybe they already have been living it???

Why are there So Many Polygamous Groups Out There???

This is a very interesting question. Where are these groups coming from??

The answer is not far off from the LDS Church. These people, by and large, are members of the LDS Church who either split off some time in the past, or in the case of more recent groups, are splitting off in more recent times.

John Taylor, President and Prophet of the LDS Mormon Church saw the hand writing on the wall. He knew that forces of the US Government were going to shut down polygamy. He in fact passed away while in hiding from them. He set aside a large group of men, with the express purpose of having the keys to seal members up into plural marriage. TO PRESERVE THE PRACTICE. And that's exactly what it did. However that being said, there are problems here, generally when someone holds the key to plural marriage, only one person on earth holds this, he can assign others to do it for him. More than one, however the authority for it always goes back to his authority, and when he passes from this life to the next, that authority is considered gone. However those holding it after this, probably still have it, however it's not really theirs to pass on. It was the one, John Taylor who had the authority to assign it, not the person who received it. Technically speaking those assigned didn't necessarily have the authority to reassign it or pass it from one generation to the next. At least that's my understanding of the way it works. Different opinions are certainly welcome on this point of doctrine. Very grey area.

Most of the Polygamous groups, that have been out there for some time, do indeed trace their authority back to one of these men, John Taylor set aside. The answer here is obvious, polygamous groups are coming out of the polygamous LDS Church. Regardless of their many denials they ARE A POLYGAMOUS CHURCH. Members are going to be coming out of this Church for many years to come. And starting splinter polygamous groups. There is a very good reason the name Mormon will ALWAYS be associated with polygamy, they practice polygamy.
Always have always will. End of Story