Tuesday, December 08, 2009
Happy Holidays Everyone
For just a minute, let's stop the debate and remember good things about this time of year. We never had Christmas in Colorado City when I lived there and I am pretty certain they still don't. But we did used to have Thanksgiving. Before Warren that is.... But anyway, remember the two "houses in a day"? The ones the men in the community constructed from bare basement to finished with carpet and paint within 24 hrs. on Thanksgiving day two years in a row? Anyone? How about any special family memories? Mine for thanksgiving was the family and the pies. Mother always made at least 6 different types of pies for Thanksgiving and we had leftover pie for breakfast for a week afterward....yum....Now that I am gone and have my own kids, I do put up a tree and lights. I've only celebrated Christmas for 4-5 yrs, but I love it! We started our own family tradition of making a gingerbread house every year. My kids love it, and I do too.... :)
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130 comments:
we started celibrating christmas when I was about 10 years old living in colorado city.lucky for me my dad got out while I was young.the transition was hard to the real world,it took me about 10 years,to be able to be somewhat normal,or adjust mostly because of all the atachments I had,
I remember those houses. That was the fondest memories. I remember hearing a story about Warren that was good. I know it may be difficult for some of you to hear; good I mean, but I will tell it any how. Warren was standing on the balcony watching a man build his house. Soon another man came out to help him. and then another, and another. Warren got on the phone and called another man to go help the man building. He loved his people and wanted all of them to succeed. Yes, I remeber the house in a day......I made a quilt for those people and left it there. I did not tell them it was from me. That was my tithings. It is written in the Lords book though. Yes, I remember the house in a day......And Warren never hurt anyone. I say this because you say that was before Warren. I have thanksgiving every day, except when I am depressed. well, since you are trying to be nice, I will say this; you go ahead and keep your Christmas. I will keep my religion and Warren; not that I ever had him to keep, but oh, who cares....why would you all leave anyhow. That day was a great day; the house in a day....damb; why would you all leave any how? It is almost like every one forgot the good days; stupid wars
Did you hear that Barbara Jessop has died from a stroke or seizure?
I do gingerbread houses and decorating sugar cookies with my grandchildren at Christmas. They love it. (It's also a chance for my grandson with autism to learn more social skills.) It's one of my favorite Christmas traditions.
Anon 11:49 people have left the religion because they have been hurt by it and by the people in it. Even if you do not feel that hurt, even if you feel that Warren didn't harm you, it is wrong for you to say he didn't harm anyone. They felt harmed and spoke about it. You have no right to tell them they weren't hurt anymore than anyone else has a right to tell you what your emotions are. It hurts me when you criticise people who have done what was best for them. They don't have to agree with you to be right about their own lives.
I'm very sad to hear of Barbara's death. She has young children who are sure to be in a lot of pain right now. My sympathies are with them. (I also feel sad for her because her life seems to have been wasted to me. I'm not convinced there's an afterlife so it seem especially tragic.)
Why would anyone stay? Why didn't warren go help build the man's house, instead of calling others to do the work?
Was he to good to get his hands dirty? Or was it because he was the prophets son.
Doing good is one thing, but just having others do the dirty work , without pitching in and helping isn't the quality of a good person.
Yes i heard Barbara died, to the small few who cared about her, my respects go to the them, to all those she hurt, I would say, I hope now you begin to heal.
I left that all behind forty years ago, because I felt no need to believe everything they taught. There was no thought of a need to heal, it was a matter of choice and to live with my choices. Although many of the people I care about still follow whomever or whatever they choose, I always wish them all nothing but the best and happiness and I hope the Christmas Season also brings them Joy.
is this Barbera that was married to Merril. I was sad to see that vidio where Marriane could not go home and her Mother did nothing for her. I was sad and cried, because I thought they was doing the same thing to her as they done to me, yet death is sad. I guess Barbera will be happy where she is at. Maybe. I know that some of you do not beleive in the after life, but I do. we should be compasionate. There are a good many lifes that are wasted. My life is a waste, because I was forced to follow someones filthy lies......I never knew Barbera. I knew some of her family.....death to me is a welcome thing, for I will be away from liars and traitor's and people who hurt.......
and if Warren Jeffs and lyle fall into this catagory, they shall be stopped from hurting too.....It is sad that it was not my Mother's that died....In time, it will happen.......
I always rejoice that my Mother's will die, for I know that the Lord is just and he will protect me from them and their lies. what we never said but we all knew. Oh, how great will be the day I leave this world and they do too, for thier lies will not be hid and the Lord will protect me from them.
I hope you do not think I am hard hearted in wishing that it was my Mother's time to go. I will explain this o you. They are very sweet in public, ecpesially to me. This is so they can get promoted to the top of the pile. I mean so they can look perfect to the men who control everything. They are horrible and cruel to the people under them. They do not admit their abuse and cover it up very skillfully. They have tried every thing they could to destroy me, thinking that they are gloried in making me look bad, why they themseves are the abusers. And when they go to the other side, there will be no lies and the men on the top of the pile will love me and My Mother's will have to admit their abuse and wish they had loved me too.......That is all. With the Lord their is no lies........ and all truth is in his hands....so the day I go that will be the day of my true freedom, and the man I married will be cast into outer darkness, and Barbera now will never hurt anyone again....never.......and she will be in that perfect place for her.......
and the only Christmas I hav ever had is a whipping from my Mother, because I was disobedient and a safe place to hide from my Father.....and the snicker's and insults from the horrible people in my community that call themselves christian's, and cover up gross abuse and torment people who had the courage to say no to horrid, horrible men......yes, how great will be the day I leave this place and you and go to where no liars live.........
and you cruel people who let men walk from your church with only a wink at their evil and target the women til they die; you too will have to make an account. For you there will be outer darkeness. Nothing else. That should not be so terrible to you, you are already in terrible darkeness. except I have seen the terrible agony that cancers a man who has no hope of glorious reserection. have seen their terrible, heart renching agony. For they know the truth also and lie to themselves. Maybe Barbera had on choice; do what you are told or else? but we are required to live the law. WE of all people have known......Not one of us can stay here forever....Thank the Lord for that. This terrible agonizing war will have an end.......and you will have your Christmas; What a wonderful World.......remember that song? this terrible thing men always forget....war hurts everyone. little war's, big wars; even little hurtful word wars....No man lives forever. IT was our turn to make a difference and not any one could live in peace together....Why? for your trinkets? or your........What-ever........What ever.....What is wrong with a leader? What was wrong with peace and love? oh, I forgot one thing; What was wrong with honesty? do you all really suppose that it was ok, for lies and deciet, just because you do not believe in honesty and integrity. This country was founded on men who....what-ever.....you would not understand one thing I am talking about......NO wonder I feel so lost sometimes, your in your system and there is no room for people in your system....what ever...enjoy your stupid Christmases for they was white this year.......maybe you could take ten or fifteen of your little statues on your shelfs and sell them for food for the homeless......or a poor child...but give it to them......just a suggestion. I would not want to burst anyone's bubble by asking you to serve the Lord and pray....IT might get you on America's most wanted list.....
Does anyone have any anecdotes about Barbara Jessop?
I read one from one of her ex-sister wives children, she made it sound like Barbara had a big reputation.
But I'm sure different people had different experiences.
my observation(only) it's very obvious that these people are in alot of pain,alot of what I read is very harsh and judgmental,I feel sad and wish I could bring a little light into the suject,I know most of these people have amazing strength.and have indured much,I know with the best intent they have huge hearts,I really belive that each person choose's their own experiance's and how they want to interpit them,I'v learned in my own journey through the university of hard knocks,and still learning how to take responsibility for my thoughts and actions.including my realationship with god.I no longer choose to blame my parent's for thier short commings,I no longer choose to blame the people that hurt me,I no longer choose to blame god,I choose to move forward, I choose life, I choose love, everyday is a brand new day, life is what you choose,you have the power to create judgment,you have the power to hate, you have the power to create heaven on earth,this all comes down to you!
I no longer choose to be a victom,
I choose to be a creater,
I choose to create,
I create,
even if this only helps one person I will be thankful, may everyone have a wonderful holiday and a happy new year,
I no longer choose to be a victim either. So I choose to create a book relating to my experiences with a FLDS woman and the secrets
she shared of her people.
SILENT WIFE
http://www.hbo.com/biglove/junipercreek/songs/silent-wife.mp3
Good riddance to Barbarian Jessop, a strong woman who chose to help perpetuate a lawless and abusive society, instead of leaving it, in order to help further expose its tyranny, and injuries to so many.She herself took very direct part in seriously hurting a number of people. May she have no rest for her soul.May at least some of the children her body bore find better ways to live for themselves, because of the efforts of many Barbara hurt, or tried to.
this is to the last blogger; I know you are hurt. It is shown in every word. Yet, pain onlyl hurts you more. Think about this; forgiveness helps you be happy. Forgiveness helps you love. Forgivness helps you grow. Forgivness is for you. Forgivness creates changes. Forgivness has a ripple affect. Did you know that every soul upon the earth that hurts another has been hurt? and every sorrow has been fed by another sorrow. Forgivness creates bridges and rainbows...no one can undo the past, and wht ever Barbera did or did not do, can not be undone, but what you do from here to for-ever can be chosen. no matter what any one else does....Think about your own joy. really the only thing that hurt the most in a beating or a slander or what ever is that you wanted loved and accepted and was rejected, or felt rejected.....Forgiveness..it is great....
Re:the consolation letter above-It was aimed at me-I never was flds,I am just a "student" of it via much reading over years,and a few conversations with ex-members. My words regarding "alpha-female" Barbarian Jessop arose directly from merely reading of her disgraceful behavior toward a number of flds, including her own underage child, her disgraceful behavior in a court of law, and more accounts of her cold calculations in the name of her "religion." Perhaps she had a stroke in order to avoid a life jail term, which should have been forthcoming.I live nowhere near "flds territory," and have never lived outside the law or outside "mainstream" American life,(whatever that is!)There are myriad ways to live a lifetime within the US without breaking its laws, which folks like flds have not figured out yet, so they'll have to be schooled to do so,including jail when necessary.They are the ones that choose lawlessness over decency while insisting God ordered them to do so.I am a life-long Protestant, born and raised in the USA, who remains fascinated and appalled at the same time, by the incredible power and deceit of Mormonism in all of its various "flavors." I marvel at the way these cult leaders have skirted justice.(I consider many of the females leaders also-manipulators and facilitators of many flds crimes which should still be tried and convicted in a court of law.) NO ONE SHOULD "forgive" any of them until justice has been served. How is it possible further crimes are not being committed at yfz (and other lock-down flds enclaves)as we speak?these people have a criminal behavior lifestyle where hundreds of kids are shut away completely from their countrymen and groomed to be criminals,regardless of their "wholesome" exterior!--there IS a God in Heaven.We as citizens are expected by Him to deal with those in our world who refuse to abide by laws, lest society stumbles and many become angry and confused. Forgive while the crimes roll on? NO- flds, both genders, should face prosecution for their deeds the way others not pleading "religious freedom" would pay if trying the same stunts and outrages in daily life.No,thank God,I am just a disgusted,concerned fellow American who sees clearly such a brutal society with its apple-cheeked veneer. The "Jesus" they seem to respect has just about nothing to do with the One that died on Calvary's cross for their sin. They can wear their plain outfits and do whatever else they like with their appearance,work ethic,and overall lifestyle,such as diet and hairstyles, but the criminal acts MUST stop and those underage people MUST be given ongoing help!I am hoping the death of one of the stronger personalities within this entrenched crime family will make that help more frequent and effective.As I have said in past blogs, I am pretty familiar with other homegrown American sects (Amish)- they are completely welcome to fashion daily life how they please as long as they abide by same laws the rest of us do.
I suppose that applys to you too. So, you slander Barbera, becuase you have a different religion, and veiw religion different. How many people like you have I met? it is people like you that allow crimes to be ignored. I say this because you say you have never met Barbera. let it rest then. You claim to believe in God and on the next breath hate religion except yours....yes, I have heard a lot of people speak like you and God will handle you too......may his justace be swift.....for this day you have broken the law of America; where is says men have a right to worship God any way they see fit...and then they removed him and freedom from their laws....so, by your own admission you are guilty and will be handled by the Lord as he see's fit.
and if I folloed your laws, I would be the most dishonest person; but I do think to follow the constitution and do good to all men. By your own admissions I would never, and I repeat, never join your church; for one dictator and manipultor, and punishment from every person I meet because I am of a different religion; is no different than the horrid, creepy man who abused me in the first place....maybe you know nothing about the Lord....for you rejected kindness.....maybe you are a terriorest........
I was once terrierized in est...
I knew Barbara very well. She was raised in a family of what many of us thought were supremecists, but I doubt they were. She was friendly, happy, proud, stubborn--hell, she was a normal person!
She died of complications resulting from an operation on a brain tumor. Those things don't grow overnight! I can only imagine her struggle going through all that she went through with the raid and her young daughter and all. It kind of explains her blank look, her almost indifference on many other occasions.
Barbara, may you rest in peace and may all those who judge you beware. The only thing worse than a broken heart is when your brain is under attack. You paid the ultimate price. May God bless you forever!
Jesus Christ paid the Ultimate Price for the World. He gave his life so others could live.
Please don't compare Barbara Jessop to Christ, NO comparison, and don't make a martyr out of a woman who harmed little children, because she felt HER children were better than other sister wives children.
I wouldn't want to be Barbara standing before God, trying to explain why she did what she did, and about giving her child to an ADULT male.
Thank you for this information. I will tell you this; brain tumer's are painful and heartbreaking. I am glad you did tell me how she died. I know for sure being judged is a very painful thing.
I went out in this world and there was more people. They all lived and did things. I thought Texas was a perfect place until they did that raid. Then I seen how fragile life is. How, cold our government do this? This is my country? That is the questions I had. My country and I realized how proud I was for real.
these people who were raided, did not care a whit about me. Most of them never knew anything about me; Not, even my Mother knew anything about me.
becase my Mother was caught up in My Mother and her.......and I thought if I was gone these people would be happy. I di all hte right things. I was shocked at my Country. I made a protest against these people being raided. They got there children back. I cried to see the affect it had on the children. I was a raid child of long ago. I never really recovered. Maybe my Mother loved me and she was too afraid. and I went out in the world today. I looked around at everything. I came to the conclusion that where you all go in the next life is not really my decision. I went to church. I had a good day. I had a great dinner with friends, and went home alone.........like always.......for what I had was robbed from me by critazisim and judgmental people and what they took can never be given back. I still love America. I may get brave enough to go to TExas again...but not for a long time. I may never go to flagstaff again and I do not care if I am hated or loved. I realize that life is life and when I leave this world I will be wanted and loved.......and there will be no sorrow or raids.
My Mother was most likely normal too; just not with a brain tumer. She was proud, stubborn and all. Our religion is not really any different than any one else's either. They all teach love and all these things.....My Mother does not know I am born yet. She was too busy looking after daddy. but that is how all woman should be. I am the one who should have died when I was one.....then my entire family could have put beautiful flower's on my grave, said something goodand been happy. as it is, they never knew I was born.........they was too busy trying to fix a problem that did not exist....only in there heads....and if they talked about me to you, and you had met me before htat day, you would not reconise me; for I am not anything at all like they said.....for I was never seen. they only seen the illusions in their head.....and I am glad some one Loved Barbera.....for every one in the world but me, had at least one person that loved them. .
but maybe my children were hurt a great deal too, for they were the raid children too....only in a different way than the Texas raid children......and this was my country! maybe it would have not hurt so much if I had not wanted them, or if I was a drug addict or did bad things once in awhile....I had no brain tumer....just a Mother, who did not know I was born and a man who took advantage of the early raid children.....If only I had died when I was one....then every one could have been happy and put flower's on my grave.....and this was MY country....yes, I was proud....but not no more, for it does not matter if you love me or hate me any more..........for in heaven they care. And one day my proud family, with no brain tumer, will see, and feel, and hear, and love.....for in heaven there is no sorrow.......
At this wonderful time of the year it does us all good to remember the Lord Jesus Christ. The man who said judge not that ye be not judged and with what measure ye mete to others, so shall it be measured unto you. Christ truly made that ultimate sacrifice for all mankind, and, for Barbara Jessop as well. None of us knew what she suffered and so we only measure to ourselves when we judge her.
In my lifetime I have only met one or two really nasty people. No mercy, no forgiveness, no feelings, judgemental, not interested in the truth, etc., but the ironic similarity was that they were super religious. Christ said once that if you do it unto the least of these you do it unto me. Barbara was the least I guess and no one can hurt her now. What she has to do all Christians must, actually all mankind. Be judged by a fair judge, the one who died that we all may live.
Oh, by the way for those who want to so harshly judge this lady. You should get your Christian head checked in case there is a tumor that starts to grow therein.
Hmmm and that reminds me.
The FLDS Priesthood head has a tumor.
Its name is Warren Jeffs.
Surgery is required!
well, one thing about it, you most likly will never see him again; one eway or the other....so keep in mind that you will never be walking in the light again......I know that every sould born has to put up with critazisim and insults...I guess there had to be people like you, so I could have compasion and charity....thank you for the opportunity......I have forgiven you your insults....
Well isnt that wonderful? Now Warren is serving his debt to society for his crimes, yet continues to bleed the innocent flds dry in his quest to escape justice.
I recommend you keep paying his attorneys, if it makes you feel better.
$2 million in FLDS legal fees in fiscal 2009 and what has Warren got to show for it?
A workout with a feeding tube?
well, you could put it all in the same contex; five million years with all the gentile people upon the earth and what is there to show for it; homless, people. and all the trouble upon the earth and a great deal of people dieing every day; and what have they to show? what will they hold in thier hand in the day of reserection? I will give you a clue.....Warren will walk with Jesus in perfect glory and you will be thrown to where destroy's are......where your corruption will never spill out of your bounds, and i will never have to hear your insults again......for an Inacent man has been targeted and we all know it. Jesus is just and you get what you give...so you can be knowing what you are looking to forever.....you will never see him again and he will never hurt or suffer again by the hands of the traitor's he would have given the world to and eternal life....if you had wanted it....but you sold your birth right.........and death is but a walk with God in great glory for the faithful....and he is and was a perfect man...and will be for-ever....why you will be for-ever trying to forget you traitor-est deeds..........and I say this to you...peace be to you and great love if you can hold it....for no dishonest man or woman can hold peace.......be your own judge if you dare.....
Let me put this a different way, for I do not like to take upon me any critazisim. I Know WArren Steed Jeffs has done no man or woman harm. I know he is perfect with the Lord. I know when he leaves this earth he will walk in perfect glory; for he walked in perfectness here.....I with my own eye's seen how his people turned on an inacent man, to cover thier own sins...like what they did did not matter....and the guilt of these deeds will never leave them. IT will cancer their hearts forever and they will always be having to cover their lies with other lies to cover thier guilt from the eye's of the world, but in their hearts they know the dasterdly deed they have done and it will canker their souls into eternity....for no dishonest man can hold peace.......they never have and never will. Warren Jeff is a PERFECT MAN.
If Warren Jeffs is so perfect in your eyes, no wonder you enjoy abuse at the hands of the priesthood.
do you really believe what you just said? Do you think that any one enjoy's abuse? and no oe can be abused by a priestood man. It is impossible. If a man is abusive he has broken his covnent with the Lord and has no Priesthood....It is impossible to be a Priesthood man and do wrong........I really wish you a great happy life and I may never look at this blog again, for it is very negative and depressing.....
I would like to know why Warren Jeffs has NOT been kicked out of Flds?
He was convicted in Utah, will stand trial in Arizona, and then Texas for 1st degree felony of marrying a 12yr old child.
If any other member in FLDS had done what warren has done, they would have been kicked out a long time ago.
He isn't a prophet, nor a God.
Ive seen pictures of Warren in his not so perfect days.
He will be spending his life in prison and for good cause. His failures and sins. And yes he has hurt LOADS of people.
Only in fairy tale land, in that empty space between thine ears is that fool perfect. If any thing he is a perfect fool and so are those that brown nose him.
Dont compare him with Jesus please - Jeffs is about as close to the Anti-Christ as I've ever seen.
Oh yeah
Read about it -
Now that Keate was found guilty today his bad acts which revolve around Warren will be made public as he is sentenced, up to life!
Here is what they will be talking about.
Warren and Keate really put the Bad into Bad Acts…
“The Defendant did…
On or about January 18, 2004, in Schleicher County, Texas, aid an abet Warren Jeffs in the crime of sexual assault by providing the Defendant’s 14-year-old daughter V. Keate to purport to marry 48-year-old Warren Jeffs, which led to her sexual assault and the birth of a child.
On or about January 19, 2004, in Schleicher County, Texas, and Colorado, Allen Keate aided and abetted Warren Jeffs in concealing the crime of sexual assault of a child when he drove his 14-year-old daughter V. Keate and 14-year-old G. Steed across state lines to Colorado at Warren Jeff’s request.
On or about October 3, 2005, in Schleicher County, Texas, Allen Keate did aid and abet in the crime of sexual assault of a child by providing his 15-year-old daughter Ra. Keate to purport to marry Lehi Barlow Jeffs, a/k/a Lehi Barlow Allred, which led to her sexual assault and the birth of a child.
On or about October 3, 2005, in Schleicher County, Texas, Allen Keate did aid and abet in the crime of sexual assault of a child by providing his 15-year-old daughter, Re. Keate, to purport to marry Keith Dutson, Jr., which led to her sexual assault and the birth of a child”
http://texasflds.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/keate-bad-acts.pdf
It is a very sad thing when religious people place their confidence and whole lives in ANYONE or ANYTHING other than Christ alone. We are tempted to put family, jobs, education and social status as a top priority and base our success within those parameters. We tend to claim our particular denomination or religion as the one exclusively superior. Although some are sincerely devout in their religion (a cultural thing that they have been apart of all their lives) they can slip into error. The leaders within churches or groups have tremendous influence and bear tremendous responsibility in how they lead.
People can be devout and God-fearing in so much as they know. And God is the ultimate judge. After all -there are tons of us who might be professing Chritians and believe in the Bible as God's Word to us, but totally miss the central theme of its message which is love and forgiveness. We should strive to judge others less and judge ourselves more, and to definitely NOT take delight in the downfall of others.
Linda Lamb
and if I thought your lies were true, I would believe it; but I know Warren JEffs has done no wrong.........
It is so sweet that Tapestry against polygamy has been shut down. That is very nice.....too bad they do not shut down there web pages too. If the government does not, the Lord will.......Why does some one not start a tapestry agianst drinking, smoking, cheating, and drugs.......like with every soul in america.....
33 years.
Take heed.
I still scratch my head when I hear the dear soul continuing her Warren Jeffs idolatry. If she had witnessed him squeezing kids' hind ends at Alta Academy,ordering them to flex their rear end muscles in front of his classes there, and ordering various kindergarten kids into the Alta Academy bathrooms for him to molest ("work in God's name" as he used to call it,) would that help her see anything? Maybe not.Person after person has come forward with personal experience of Warren's perversion and this worshipper of his still will not believe it. People have committed suicide following Warren's abuses and extortions-but to her he is holy? Lord, what blindness.If Warren took her by the hand and sat her down and told her he is sorry he did such crimes to kids at his school, plus all the other extortions and travesties he is KNOWN by hundreds to have perpetrated, would she accept any of it? I guess not. An idol is an idol. -Some folks cannot be helped regardless of others' valiant attempts to be patient,and hard evidence of numerous crimes by the mere sinful mortal she reveres.
that is just it; you all know he is not guilty. You also do not know this is a she talking to you. and You must also be guilty of what you accuse.....
Sorry
A Jury found Warren, Raymond and Allan guilty in a court of law with evidence of the crimes.
Is it you dont believe these are crimes, or there was a wrong conviction?
AH, you think these arent really crimes.
Well, in the real world they are, see.
Wake up and smell the Brigham tea.
This aint 1830 anymore.
Ruth or whoever you are, Warren is a rapist of children. I do believe he qualifies as a pedophile.
Warren confessed two of his sins back in January 2007, sexual assault of a daughter and mother.
Texas law enforcement has solid proof of sexual assault Warren imposed on a 12 year old and a 14 year old, plus involvement of their priesthood fathers who sold their souls to a false god.
At Church lately I have been noticing that there is a group of people who are absolutely fascinated and enamored by the new young organist/pianist. They have been continually bragging on his abilities and complimenting him to the extent that he has become quite "full of himself." He has become cocky and bold and has begun to miss choir rehearsals now and then because he has something more important to do. He cant seem to give a direct answer to a question. His supporters fall all over themselves in taking up for him no matter what rude or ridiculous thing he does because they think we are so fortunate to have such a musical prodigy on our staff. Personally I think he is full of himself instead of filled with God's love and desire to serve.
This makes me think also of the sad news of a golf pro who also has become so "lifted up" that he thinks he can have anything he wants, no matter who that might hurt. He was placed on a pedestal and has now taken quite a fall.
When we puff up people too much we are not doing them any big favor. The news media throws fuel on the fire and Truth seems to go up in smoke. It is all so sad to me.
Some ask "What do we do? - Turn our heads from those in leadership positions deliberate wrongdoings and not hold them accountable?" No, I dont think that is what we do. Hopefully we do all we can to discourage wrongdoing and be willing to forgive if wrongdoing stops. And if not, then we have to support the necessary punishment.
Doesnt it all boil down to what is true and honest? And those things that are hidden are always just a little bit suspicious.
Linda Lamb
Wow, these comments went way off track from the original comment by bbgae..remembering the good times in the crick. I remember as a teenage girl watching from afar as one of the houses was being built in a day. My heart swelled with pride knowing that our people could come together like that for a family in need. My family was an exception in that we exchanged gifts every holiday. We were careful to say it wasn't for Christmas but for New Years, although we mostly partied on Christmas day. I have many wonderful memories of Thanksgiving and the Christmas holidays. They were always filled wih fun games, yummy food and just spending time with the family. My family always celebrated the holidays clear up until Warren came into power. When I was leaving the religion, my father also told me the story of Warren. I know he thought to inspire me by it, but all I could think of was why didn't Warren go down and help build the house with his own two hands. That would have been inspiring! I loved my family and our town until the black plague swept over it! I cannot even go there anymore for the place and people I loved no longer exists! Warren happened...
I think you have maybe made a mistake in your assumptions. If you did not care about the religion, then you have changed and as far as the town goes, there are so many people out of the religion in town that it feels like the only people in the religion still are the ones who can not go there. they only badger the people who are honest, so they do not have to acount for the things they are trying to keep hidden.
Anonymous @12:59 PM:
That was a very interesting post. Thank you. You described Warren's influence as repressive of the sort of flexibility you once felt about such fun and happy traditions as Christmas, as well as on the town as a whole. And yet your father was inspired by him, and wanted you to be inspired also? Am I correct in my interpretation of your post? Can you say a little more about how your father viewed Warren, what his understanding wass, and why he felt the way he felt? Thank you so much. Merry Christmas.
Helene:
Yes, your interpretation was correct. My family was never that strict..we believed in the religion but still believed in having a good time. We went on vacations every summer and celebrated all the holidays. If a family member chose to leave the religion they were still always welcome to come to all our family get togethers. We were different than most of the familys there. I grew up with a strong testimony of the religion because of the teachings of my father and the love he showed us and even the apostates, as we called them. So it was really hard on me when Uncle Rulon got sick and Warren came into power. Every thing changed. Warren was not as tolerant as his father and started making stricter rules. My father did have some questions about Warren's regime, but he tried to follow. My mother was always very religious and Warren was like a dream come true for her. She finally swayed my father and he tried to get us to believe also, but by then I was done with it all. It felt like a totally different religion than what I grew up believing in. Anyway, so to make a long story short..They are still there and I am here. I am very happy and I want my children to grow up with as warm of memories as I have of my childhood. Thank you for reading and Merry Christmas to you too!
Merry Christmas all. I'm writing some new articles on the FLDS101 blog. I've written a new one on the places of refuge and the mission for the redemption of Zion. I welcome comment and input. Please see: http://flds101.blogspot.com/
Thanks anon 7:17
I found that to be a great summary of the how and why the FLDS found themselves in the current quandary.
Its really too bad, I think there are good people who've been harmed, I guess I am talking mostly women and children but I am sure there are good men too.
The hoodlums however are out of control and they cant keep the story straight.
Warren unraveled it all and they just need to realize that.
They may be "good people," yes,but "good people" are throughout the US and do not continually defy US laws and then scream religious persecution. The bottom line is that this group places its "religious practices" within a sphere of behavior which is and always has been ILLEGAL in all US states. It has an entrenched history of serious multi-faceted abuse of "members" ( born slaves) and practices several levels of fraud,therefore, thousands of children and women and men are being continually conditioned and exhorted to disobey US and state laws by this cult. If we all did this, what would become of our nation?
Another Christmas present: I wrote an article that summarizes Warren's activities during his years of hiding. Where he went, who he was with, what he did, his thoughts about the Katrina tragedy, etc. See: http://flds101.blogspot.com
here is a poem dedicated to Warren Jeffs; you taught me to love and punished me. You punished me for their lies. you taught of love and hated me. You said to forgive and banished me. I asked for help and you threw me away. I asked for help, and you put my abusers on a pedistle. You said to love and hated me. every night I cry for what you did to me. You and your brother who hated me, and turned your eye to abuse. I cry because I was so stupid as to trust you, you and your horrid cruel people who hate and protect abuse....you who spoke of love and punished me for another mans lies. you who hated me, who hated me, who hated me, who hated me. you who taught of love and destroyed my life for filthy mens lies....yes, you who hated me and protected abusers....who hated me, who hated me, who hated me, who hated me....me the fool for thinking you would care, you and warrens people who hated me, and protected abusers and one day betrayed me and I was stupid for trusting you who hated me.
One final Christmas gift for you. I've documented Warren's secret "heavenly session" experiences that involved jerking, twisting, suffering. I've also presented my theory as to what caused this and also tied in a possible explanation for his aversion toward the color red. I welcome comment. See: http://flds101.blogspot.com/2009/12/flds-beliefs-is-warren-jeffs-marred.html Merry Christmas all. My thoughts are especially we so many of your who cannot be with your families.
I am a witness to the plot against Warren. I walked before him; marred but not as he. I could not ever fill his shoes; and I also have felt the power of the Lord in healing. I have heard and seen his enamy's rage against him; him being perfect as Jesus is, and have a witness of myself from God that Warren will be healed and when Jesus comes again in the clouds non of you can stop him with your power to torment; I have been a witness, and it has been written in the Lords book; as each man choses heaven or hell. That is really all that is being debated. your position in the eternal world.....for death is but a walk...and unbelievers are put in there place. If it was possible for a man to atone for my sins, he would be the one to do this for me, out of his great love...and if it was possible for a man to give these people who seek destruction, through deceit and flattery....a cup to drink to there own condemnation, it would be warren too. He is strong in the faith. He was taught well, in heaven and on earth...I believe no other person was prepared to be this witness of the world and this generation...It is written that the queen of the south shall come from the utter most parts of the earth, and shall condemn it.........for the history of the earth has been written in the book of Mormon and the Bible....and after the death of all the wicked, they shall mourn and weep, for their own souls and the souls of there children......and cry oh, that we had repented in the day of our probation, so that our fair sons and our fair daughters would have been spared....and as for the Barlow's; John Y. Barlow is waiting for them....and non can deliver........for they have drank the cup of a traitor........
Explain the good that Warren has done.
I havent heard that part yet.
Gads Ruth! I think you hung around Val too much.
unfortunaltly I did not die like Val too; so you could all rejoice and celibrate my death too.....flowers would have been so wonderful this time of year....in the snow....just think Lyle Jeffs could have really gotten into saving the soul of his house........
Anon 12/24/2009 5:15 PM :
It was Warren's father, Rulon who started the whole "red" thing. I was there that day in church when the whole thing started. He quoted the passage in the new testament (I don't remember the exact passage so please bear with me) where it talks about Jesus' second coming: "And His garments shall be stained from treading the wine press...." this he told us meant that red was a scared color and it was blasphemous to wear it. It meant you were saying by wearing red that YOU were the savior. (complete crap, I know.) Hence, it became "wicked" to wear red.
I remember one of the Barlow Brothers commenting later about a woman they knew who had also attended that meeting who had been wearing a red dress. She went home and changed and still made it back to the meeting house in time to shake hands before church was over.
I have my own theory as to why Rulon didn't like red. When I was a teenager I got to do participate in the 24th of July dance that Rulon's younger wives, Jenny and Becky Wall (now Rebecca Musser in the news) preformed. While i was at Fischer's Sew Rite getting fabric for my costume, some of the other younger wives of Warren came in ad asked if they could take samples of the cloth home with them across the street to show "father" ("Uncle' Rulon) saying that they had to see if he liked the pattern or if it hurt his eyes and explaining that bright colors hurt his eyes and gave him a headache. Now, with this information, imagine old Rulon looking out at an audience sprinkled randomly with bright red. voila! suddenly, red is "evil".
It has been interesting to read all the postings. I'm not an FLDS follower however, I am interested in the idea of polygamy. As a wife and stay-at-home mom, I like the traditional belief of having a husband take care of me. However, in today's society it is hard to maintain and requires most husband's to work long hours. It is difficult being home alone with children with no one to talk with or share housework.
So many questions; Do the women like having sister wives' to talk with and share their lives?, Do they all share a marriage bed?, Can the women have disagreements with their husbands?, Are their members living off the ranch and if so, how do they attend church or seek wives?, Have many members gone to college? What state's have polygamists?
Ruth, no one celebrated Val's death, except for you. Remember when you danced on his grave reciting your songs? You were banned from the ceremony for a reason, someone was jealous of you.
yes, you all make lies up to fit your catagory. No one has a need to be jelouse of a retard. and I assure you if I was dead my death would be celibrated like None I have ever known. Jelouse of me? you must be joking! why would anyone be jelouse of me? I was no one! Val was being persued by his-self. No one wanted him at all. You must be joking????? Jelouse? and dancing on his grave....that one was just to keep me looking stupid. Val did not like me. He wanted Laurene and Marie. They did not want him. how stupid can life get.....I am sure it is unfortunate I am not the one laying in the grave......flowers are beautiful this time of year.....Laurene would be so happy......I was banned from Val's funeral because Laurene was praying for me to die, and Val oop'sed and died....too bad I suppose and I have not ever danced on anyone's grave. ever.....You may all like to throw your filthy lies out, but not one of them will ever come true. I shall not ever dance, or sing again.....and I have not ever danced on a grave and I never intend on doing this. Jelousy is a terrible horrible thing. So, I repeat, it is unfortunate, I did not die instead of Val......you could have all had your grand celibration, and Lyle Jeffs could be a hero and save all the great grand houses. I bet my mother was jelose too. that is why she stole what was mine and hated me.......I shall make me the ugliest person that has ever been seen....and Cody can have her.....
I was banned from the church altogether so Warren's Jeffs men could keep their sectet's hid. and as long as they slander and target me, they think they will be hid forever. Warren Jeffs said there would be a new song in zion, and when he told me this I was happy, until I found out the new song was Retard, retard, why did you trust. Retard, retard, why did you think they cared. retard, retard, why would you love....the one's who hated, who hated, who hated, who hated, who hated, you retard.....Jelouse....you must be joking....they needed a sacrifice so they could assend, and as long as they were calling me names, and hurting me, it made them look taller. retard, retard, put up your ladder, so they can stand on you like a peice of trash, they need a glimmer in there eye...retard, retard, warren hated you just like his men said, you was the retard for trusting,,,,,we knew him better than you, retard, retard. dancing is a sin, and so is singing, because we hated you and banned you and no matter what you did we hated you, until the reserection day, when you have to pay your debt.......retard, for thinking they cared.....so it is unfortunate, they did not bury me instead....then they could have all been happy........but fear not, they got what they wanted.....I see not, and hear not.....for their insults have fallen upon there head......
and I did every thing I could to help Laurene and Val. I thought they should have loved each other......but I was just the retard....so she got another one to feed her money bag.....she deserves all the money. stacked up so high she can climb its mountian...jelosy and money...let her have it....she can not keep me from heaven though she did all she could to try......
and unfortunatly your insults and lies have not buried me either, although you do your best to hurt me too. what did I have you was jelose off? tis' a pity flowers would be beautiful this time of year.....and Lyle Jeffs could have been rejoicing in his victory of my life destroyed. and he could have petted his house and painted it up perty......for appearances, why he hated me......what did I have he was jelose off.....that I lived...tis' a pity........
I avoid Lyle jeffs, because I did not want him hurt for caring. The only people you hate is those that love me, and are nice......tis' a pity he could not save the soul of his house....it would have looked nice. and you all could have ran over me, and had your beautiful flowers...tis a pity. flowers are beautiful this time of year......it would have been just the cover up for your lies.....
and Jonathon, when the wolf was at my door, you protected him and what Richard, Jack, Shelly, and Willard failed to do; Lyle Jeffs and Richard Timpson Jessop did with two seconds of speach.....was I a fool for defending them? I think so...my reward was a kick in the face...so the new song in my Zion will always be retard, the one you all hated. so Lyle Jeffs, help your house up...it needs a helping hand...sing to the stones in the ground. and preach to the shingles on your roof, and I will not ever commit the unpardanable sin of wanting to be in your church, so you can all insult me again....and I will stay away from your stupid court cases and not defend you, but leave your stupid damb work to the Lord........for my reward was a kick in the face for loving you and defending you.....I am sure Richard Cooke is just delighted to accept of his judgment....and flagstaff is just a reminder of Jonathon and your cops who defend child mollesters and rapestist........and mY mother who would have hated me always, because she did, for she never once called the cops on Jack, or Richard, or any one else that beat me up.......so keep retard for your new song of zion...tis' a pity you could not put flowers out. it is a perfect time of year for them........
It sure does not take long for you to all put out your lies and slander. That is the way it always is. do something good for someone and they hate you......that is all the reward there ever has been. I wonder why my family ever let my father go to jail. I wonder why they did not just throw me out instead of him. Jonathon, Laurene, and the rest would have been excited.....and they could have all been happy. tis a pity I was born.....I told him no......and I never wished any one harm....and you all know it...and who would really be jelose of some one every one hated?
and just in case you all do not know, or have not figured it out; I was hated the day I was born. so, your stories do not mean anything to me. I am looking forward to the day I shall leave this world of filth and lies....where the only law, is who can cheat the most and hurt the most, so if you are nice, you are lied to, cheated, beaten and harmed.....so welcome to my world. you that hate me, forever......that hated me, that hated me, that hated me. for death is a welcome walk away from lies and filthy men. and women.....
why do you not put the rest out. all any one has to do to be a hero in town is hate me. they will accept you in the church just like that as long as you hate me.......why do you not put out the rest of what I said.....for I never wanted any one to die.....but when did it ever matter what I wanted? so I was hated....and every one was jelose...too bad I was not the one who went.
Anonymous 12/27/2009 6:56 PM:
I will answer a few of your questions.
It really depends on the men and women in the relationship as to if the women like having sister wives. If you could ask anyone of them flat out they would all swear to you they are happy and they love doing the will of God. Weather that is the truth of how they really feel or not is left unanswered. I witnessed both sides of it. I was married to my sister's husband for four months and I can tell you those were four months of hell and she most definalty did NOT like me being there. A few months later I lived in the bishop's house and witnessed that although the wives sometimes squabbled they had "favorites" that they got along well with and went to for "girl talk" when they needed it. And no, they did NOT talk about sex. Ever.
As far as disagreements with their husbands, my mother fought with my father all the time. Sometimes she won, sometimes he won. But we were considered a barely faithful family and my father was considered a brow beaten husband. We were told in church all the time that it was a woman's duty to be obedient. "Obedience is the first law of heaven." So, in reality, no. The women are not allowed to fight with their husband. He is God over them and to them.
No, they absolutely do not share a marriage bed. There are no threesomes or orgies. They teach that sex is strictly for procreation alone and it is not allowed unless the woman wants to get pregnant. She may not be intimate with her husband for any other reason. Especially not while she is pregnant. They tell the people that such a thing will create ungodly lust in the unborn child.
Yes, there are members living off the ranch. There are FLDS in Nevada, South Dakota, and Arizona. Most of the FLDS followers who are not living on the YFZ ranch are living in Colorado City, Arizona and Hildale, Utah, and Bountiful, British Columbia, Canada.
Members do not "seek" wives in the FLDS. All marriages are arranged. The prophet tells the men who and when to marry.
There are many more polygamous groups than the FLDS. They are all different. The only things that I have observed they do have several things in common. Of course, the plural wives. And generally required submission. They also all claim to be THE church of God. But, the gain, so do all other religions.
and if it is being debated, then there is a great lack of faith. I refer you to the brother of jared.....and I owe an apolagy to the faithful and the un-faithful. For it is all written, and who but the Lord alone has the right to judge a man? or a woman? if a person breaks there covnant, they have sinned. and no other man or Prophet has done this. They themselves chose evil and all men know there wrongs.....
Thank you bbgae. Your postings are always helpful to those of us who are trying to understand.
Otherwise, this blog has been so completely given over to people who hate themselves, hate the world, in fact seem to hate everything, that it has become most pointless to read. No, I said that wrong. In fact they seem to love one thing, the vocal experience of their own misery.
this blog most assuradly is pointless....
You are welcome, Helene.
now, that you and bbgae, so darling and cute, that you can critazise so sweet and darling; are you happy. Is this blog more perfect. I am glad you have the floor. Keep it. I am extreamly tired of it. for it is garbage.....
Ruth if it means anything I thought Helen's post was kinda harsh.
Most folks here know a bit of the troubles you have seen.
I've put together another article. This one is one the YFZ temple. It includes an interesting story on a secret cement formula. Comments welcome. See: http://flds101.blogspot.com/2009/05/flds-101-history-temple.html
what do you know? I will ask this question; In the store there is a list of bad check writer's. Willard Marion Barlow, and Shelly G. Cooke are two of them. Is it critasism on my part to openly say this, or is it just stating facts? And let me ask this; Why was every one so blind that they made me pay for the filth and creepyness of the men. And there was nothing secret about it. In all truth, I reported abuse to Dr. Smith and the very people I reported as abusers over rode all my rights; Why? Now I was not represented by anyone in the law? Why? and do I have a right to speak the truth or should I be more polite to flatter the B.....but in the end....truth is truth....and they owe me. they owe the state. and they owe God! and if you love me, or hate me, or critazise me, it will not change one Iota.......and it cost a whole bunch more to let them walk free, than it would have to have made them guilty for what they were. It is followed by them for-ever....them-selfs. and five years ago or more, I made a public anouncement that I seperated myself from them, and any debts they had................for they are liars and thiefs of the greatest kind...and bullys. bullys that beat up woman and children.......so critazise me all you want.....and to those who understand. Thank you....and I do not go to there houses, so they can not drag me in and call the cops saying I am trespassing. For they are liars....liars in every sense......and that is not hate. that is truth....
As interesting as I find this blog and the comments. The multi post ramblings coming from the "......" poster makes it difficult. Which is a shame, because there are many really good comments on this blog.
and the only difference between Richard H. Cooke and Jack W. Cooke is Richard did not confess publicly on national telivision. and the only difference between Willard Marion Barlow and Shelly Gene Cooke is Willard has not been caught yet, and the only difference between Shelly Gene Cooke, Willard Marion Barlow, and Richard H. Cooke and Jack W. Cooke is Shelly Gene Cooke, Richard H. Cooke and Willard Marion Barlow, have not confessed on national telivision like Jack William Cooke.........so Brooke Adam's when you do story's make sure the retards are not being beat up still when you report....
Ruth
Its no secret that you have been mistreated.
I guess the part that sticks with me, maybe you can clarify, is that part in the movie "Banking on Heaven" where you talk about Dick and what he done.
I have watched two different versions about banking on heaven. I do not remember what it said about Richard Cooke. I do not really know which one laurie Put out. The one I did see I was not ashamed of. I only said I stood against abuse and would not ever back down from that. How-ever I am happy today. I have been laying here in my bed for aporaxamatly five years....I have come to the conclusion that I am always going to be a good person and these men will always be filthy preditor's. I pity them really. them and the cops that covered up their abuses. And the people who all knew they was guilty and covered up for them. I pity them really. they will have to live with there guilt for ever.....with that said, i have to go take care of my anaimals...have a happy new year....all you wonderful people out there.......
ask me just what it is you want to know about Dick. I will tell you directly. He is one of the grossest men. but who can say who is grossest, out of gross men....men who commit a crime, and force woman to try to repent for them....Dick is sick.
Anonymous at 9:47 AM said:
"ask me just what it is you want to know about Dick. I will tell you directly"
OK. I'll bite. What specifically did Dick do?
Well, the trailer is on youtube. The most heart wrenching moment is the part where he took the lives of the two children.
Is that true? And was there a police investigation, or is this like so many other things in the Crick, swept under the rug?
I will tell you what he told me. he said I was posined. He told me he was going to,,,,I can not tell you the exact words. Too painful. too painful...but he said he was going to give us this stuff. it was written in the records of people that I did speak about this and ask for help. I guess I should have taken my daughter and left. I hope I never see him again. I wish I had not talked to that film woman. I wish no one had ever seen that.
I wish so much I had not ever met these men. Well, I did go into the store today. I was going to buy a driar. idi write a check for it. I have money to cover it. I guess once agian I was stupid. This paper that had willard and Shelly cheating, was posted out publicly. I did take it and the manager of the store is mad at me now. I was thinking that they would charge the crimnals who owed them and cheated them, but He did tell me that because i did take this paper to look at it, that he was going to charge me with stealing. He said that I had the mentality of a seven year old and he was going to make me stay in jail for thrity days. I will not contend it. I wonder how long it will take to figure out, that i did not cheat anyone. I do not feel like that information should have been withheld from me, and that they should have charged the real thiefs........he does not know me though and I am certian that if any one charged these theifs, I would faint.....but they had it on record for a long, long time. for those two cheated every one....I am confused, how me paying for my stuff and looking at this paper is stealing. I am writing this here, so that when I am listed as being arrested, every one will know from me, what is going on. I wish so much, I had not lived through what Richard did to me, when he took my children, but I can not bear to talk about it again......they have it fixed real nice....the death report on my daughter was a great big word, like Cerebral palsy and cerebral palsy means a brain injury, but this big word, I can not remember and it says she died from anything to posiing to an infection of the brain.......but big medical words have to be looked up on the internet to understand....So, what Richard Cooke told me he was going to do, was covered up in a big word on my daughters death certificate. I thought it would protect me to not have it known publicly, but I am tired of being harrassed.......Shelly Cooke also testified to drugging my daughter, but tried to blame my Mothers. My Mothers are not at fault. She loved my daughter. Dick was punishing her because she loved my daughter. I just can not speak about that horrid creepy man again.....so until thirty days are up, I will not be talking to you. I am going to be in Jail for seeing the paper of Willard and shelly's cheating crime spree........for they covered up for Richard H. Cooke
and really no one can be blamed for this except Richard, Willard, Shelly and i am sorry I did not see that paper a long time ago.......I do not owe any bad checks. Just a debt to the cops here, for wanting to go to church.......and getting my feelings hurt. and really Lyle Jeffs knows nothing about me. None of this had or has anything to do with him. He was not here......That i know besides I do not really even know lyle jeffs at all. or seth or any other Jeffs really. Warren was alway nice to me.....
and agian I have posted publicly that I am not responsible for there debts. They owe me........and I am confused why no one listened when I was going through this experience and why these people who cheated every soul they met was not arrested.....like they need to arrest crimnal's.....
and yes, there are still people trying to sweep every thing under the rug.....why do you think they critazise me, but I know the truth an so does Willard, shelly and Richard Cooke.....the knew what they was doing to me. And I am not and never was stupid or mentally ill. I am not a crimnal. I wish so many times, I could erase them from my mind. How great that would have been. how great that would have been. But shelly was caught in Denver with three seperate charges that had nothing to do with my daughter. three charges with children. so he is out of my life. Richard was put out of the church, and all that is left is Willard and one other person who physaclly took my daughter from me, who was not harmed. I did help her.....She is ok. I think. I see her sometimes and she looks ok. but that last day, I did help her....she has a beautiful smile and loves the girls she is with. and oh, how I cried inside....this wound that did not heal. this wound inside. the pain that losing children brings....I wish with all my heart they would take that trailer down and punish the people who was really guilty.....to much sorrow to deal with.....
I write on this blog. because I was told by Willard that I had no freinds. He did tell me that it would be easy to do this to me. I did not beleive him at first. I thought every one in the world was my freind, except Shelly at the time Willard told me this. And I believed for awhile I did not have any friends. To some degree I still beleive this. every time I think about it is is just like an open wound and do not like to think about it. I may be punished for looking at this list, but some time in eternity the state will take care of this. Maybe the store people just put that paper out to make fun of me. Who knows? it does not really matter to me, now what they do because the words the owner to the store said to me, will hurt me forever.....nothing he can do or say will take this pain out of my soul. to find that some people knew and who knows how many people knew and did nothing? that is the pain of it. Yet, I know a lot of beautiful people know nothing about it. I do not feel distressed today. Just hurt again deeply.....
and yes, there was an investigation. and it was very cleaverly swept under the rug, in plain sight. I mean that every one could have seen the truth, if they wanted too, but it was cleaverly hidden. I told my Mother I thought my daughter had been poisend. I thought the cops would be called. They did not come. Some one took my daughter. I will not say there name here. He has a family that thinks he is wonderful, but when he talks about abuse of his daughter that left, they say he is honest. He said he beat his daughter because she wore short dresses. she said he beat her because they were long. I feel like in a way she was betrayed too.....
and this daughter was the one that was saved. He took her from me, and I made a friend call for help. When they came, they put me in a truck and took me in the night to a place I did not know. there I was thrown down and given a shot in the bottom. These men think they are funny. When they see me, they make the most fun of me. Soon the rest will be caught. But it is only the men who know what really happened that keep things hurtful against me. even now, I feel like as long as they can make fun of me, they think it does not matter. i am going to petition the State to push a little harder on charging these two men with bad checks. It has been a long outstanding debt. I have hidden the paper I took so I can give it to the judge if they want to have it. I am sure I will be in jail for thirty days, for that is what the owner of the store is demanding of me. This paper means a lot to me. It is my evidence that these men were thiefs and every one knew it.....so send me a card if you see a notice I am in jail. if you want to.
I never knew this paper would cause such a stir. Why do they not charge these men and have them pay the debt in Arizona......? I thought about emailing Terry Goddard and asking him this today. It is weird, because the county cops were here just a few days ago. I had a flat on the highway and they asked me if I needed help. I felt like i was ok. I maybe should have asked them, but they was a few days too early..
I could go to a woman's shelter tonight, but if that man in the store thinks it is a crime for me to buy a drier and pay almost three hundred dollars and charge me for stealing a paper with the men listed on this paper, when I only was surprised to see this, and he thinks I should stay in jail for thirty days for looking at this paper and I am a thief......well, I will see what happens.....weird...I am glad I got my check back. I took it back after he called me a theif. I took his drier back too. Why do you suppose they did not charge the men. Why did it upset him that I looked at this paper? I wonder why? why are men not honest? Well, I am too tired to be upset. maybe I will not even have to go to jail. who knows. He said let it rest until tomorrow. That is because I was talking to all these people in the store about what happened. these men do not like me to have freinds. They still do all they can to cover the truth. in gossip you know....I am too tired. It does not matter now. I am tired........one day I shall be in a place that liars and theifs and triators do not come.....there are a few men here who are honest and nice. who love me, and i love them. i do not mean I love them in a bad way. I love them in a good way. and one day I shall not have to worry about sorrow......I should not have ever critazised anyone. I have met thousands of very nice people out there in the world. and some very nice people here.......one day I shall be in glory with my daughters again....one day. I am old now. I can not stay here forever...one day I shall be with them in glory.....
one daughter was born with endocardiofibro lactosis. this means the valve of the heart did not close. Shelly gave me a pill for a head ach. this was when I was pregnant. I do not remember what it was. Nothing I thought to really worry about at first. then my headacks got worse.
she was in the hospital for three months off and on and died. yes there was an investigation. Just a lot of talk. this was the first baby. was she born with a heart problem with no trouble or what? this one I am not certian. then there was my daughter who lived to be ten. She had a head injury. i did not see what happened. Dr. Twiggs said the story did not fit the injury. Yes, there was an investigation. they questioned me.
I threw the swing she was in in the garbage. I thought she had fallen from a swing. Shelly told me she had. so she had this head injury. this girl later said she walked in on him abusing her. I took her to Dr. twiggs. He did not find evidence. Maybe an infection. so agian, I was wondering. the third baby had dextricardia. they said that all her organs were backwards. But it was all perfectly backwords inside and all working right. Yet she died just like the first. The heart did swell very big. I did take her to St. Joseph's hospital in Pheonix. they thought she had pompays disiese. But the genetic tests came back normal. I did tell them that I needed this in writing. Again I was confused. for she had no genetic cause for this....they said she should live to be very old, but her heart swelled. Again it could have been the drug. maybe not.......I did not know then....
but I did not trust this man at all. He was threatening me, because I took my daughter to Dr. twiggs. I left him. I got soul custody of my children and he was supposed to pay five hundred dollars child support. Then I moved into Richard Cookes house. He told me he owned me. at first I did think he was weird. I did tell him he did not own me. so finally after he badgered me so much I did go to some one i loved and trusted. i did get married then, again.
so at that time, I did think every one knew what Shelly was like and that i would be protected. Willard was who I did marry. He was very violent. I reported abuse to Dr. Smith. no one beleived me. I was surprised. By then with Willard, Richard, and a few others all participating in thinking I was stupid, and they was great big priestood elders, who would question what happened.
and then donna began to scream. She screamed non stop. and Dick punished me. oh how he punished me as she died. He told me what they done. So I let my Mother take care of my son. they never told me what they done to him. Just what they done to Donna. and then with Willard. He was the worst. They wanted to hurt my baby. But I called a friend. so they could not. and i suffered for reporting abuse.....and I can not speak about it no more......I just can not speak about it no more.....Oh, how great will be heaven....I have three daughters and one son will join me soon. What they done to him, they did not tell me...Just what they done to Donna and the other that they tried......And they had on record the lies of these two men all along....oh that I had found this paper a long time ago.....back when i needed it....and I am sure they will some day confess just like jack did. Jack was my father. He beat me and beat me, but He did not get what he wanted. This was preparing me for Willard, I think. so I could have the streanth.......but now, I am tired.
but the Lord will clean this up. Just you wait and see. he will clean this up......
I shall watch both films. I have a copy of both. I will watch them tonight why I wait to see if i am going to be given as much charity as my crimnal husbands, for looking at there track record, or if I am going to get the shackles...what do you suppose it will be?
that was the most horrid time of my entire life. I could not watch the film with me talking of it again. I shall have to not see this film agian. I just can not finish it....if you really want we can talk about the good christmases. I am sorry. for a few little whiles, I did forget. I did forget....until I did see that horrid list in the store and I am not ever going to talk to that man who owns this store again....ever...not that man who was angry at me and said what he did to me today.....I will not stay in jail. people have to break the law to go to jail. I think....maybe they do not. maybe that is why he is protecting these crimnals that owe him.......
I did not know that men could be such bullys. actually this man has been going around behind my back gossiping about me. He talks to people about me as if I am not there. I used to respect all the men in our church, until I started talking to them out of our church building. Now, I realize how weird they really are. He thought I was seven. I guess in some ways that film does not bother me as much. It does not hurt as much to remember. but that man in the store will find out I am older than seven.....that is for sure and if he thinks I am seven, why is he sending seven year olds to jail...I may have to just call my doctor tomorrow. I was watching that film of me, and I think I may have had a stroke and just recovered when Laurie filmed me. My left eye hangs half shut. My left arm was dragging. I thought I had a small heart trouble, because I was dignosed with this.
and I had to lay in my bed for three days. I looked funny. but others did not think I looked funny. I better quit talking again...hu? I am glad you all love shopping at c m c....that man is weird. You can be his customers. Make him rich, so he can pay Willard's and Shelly's debt, why i am in jail reading his list of creepy men who will not pay for what they took...from me and every one else........I would say men are dumb, but some men I love.....
thank you for your answers. you have spoken well, stamp and Helene. I have paid a great price for speaking out against abuse. I shall continue....
Thank you for answering my question. I wanted to hear your story, from you, not from others who think they can talk for you.
Anonymous poster, whoever you are. They call you Ruth. Is that who you are?
I did not hear your story and I did not see the trailer on you tube. I think I will watch it.
You do have friends. So many people who hear what has happened to you heart will go out to you. My heart cries for you and the terrible things you endured.
Don't you know that God loves you? He really does. And your precious children waiting for you in heaven are watching over you and blessing you as heavenly angels.
I wish I could heal the hole in your heart and your soul.
You are a wonderful, beautiful person just the way you are.
I am sorry you are going to be in jail. I hope you read this.
http://166.70.44.68/blogs/trent/2009/11/utah-supreme-court-warren-jeffs/
Is the creepy guy from c m c in the third picture far to the left?
Ruth if those men wrote hot checks, it is up to the store to collect and then file in court against those individuals. In most states writing hot checks is a punishable crime.
It depends on the amount of the check how much jail time and restitution you have to pay. Paying the check off is the cheaper way to go.
In some states it is against the law for businesses to post hot check information, like copies of the checks that did not clear.
Does anyone know the hot check laws of Utah?
I did not go to jail. I see. The men here and the cops can bully me. Nothing they said to me was really filed in a court, so it is not recorded. I see, if it is illegal for them to even post this paper, I see why they would have a problem with me taking it. Yet, I did not remove it from the store. The Lady at the check cashing place said that there was a mis-understanding and My name is not on this list! I did not go to jail this time. I see now.....It is about them and there dis-honesty. If it was illegal to put this paper out in plain sight and I picked it up to look at. They was only doing this to play a prank on me. I was banned from C. M.C today. The lady that does the checks told me at the gas station that there was some mis-understanding. she said my name is not on that list. So, our men are dis-honest and cheat....then they force there woman on drugs and put them out.....the ones that want to stay. the ones that go are happy to go. So in truth I was a guppy and they was covering there own dis-honesty. These debts of these two men who cheated me have been owed to the store for ten years. I owe the story nothing. I owe nothing. I just got screamed at by the owner of the business and he did not want to hear anything I had to say.
these men have owed this money to the store since they began their business the first day I married the first one. and no one has arrested them. I owe the store nothing and I have just gotton banned by the owner. I think in a way it is a blessing, because now, I am not in the middle of thiefs. there are a lot of honest businesses in town. And there is one honest man in C.M.c. and he sold me a driar and got punished for collecting....I think his boss knows nothing about what goes on in his own store....how long do you think it will take him to figure out I do not owe him anything but he just got dumped with these two mens debt......I will be happy to shop else where and those gossipers will have to chew their own bone.....they owe me a debt. for discrimination it is ten thousand dollars for every person who insulted me and thought I was stupid. they never looked at the paper, or me.......they owe me...C.M.C. owes me a debt. Here again I will post it publicly......If in a marriage a lady is responsible for half her husbands debt.....C.M.C. can pay it or be responsible...I seperate myself from them at there extreemly humilatiing insults and I am not responsible for an Iota.....they owe me.....I shall pick up trash and shop in the other stores....Have a beautiful day those that care....C.M.C. protects crimnals and persicutes incent people.....
I think if every one was minding there business they would see farther. right now, I do not owe anything and Robert Knudson holds a paper with the two men, that I married at two different times, he is holding there debt. In a way I should pity him......I wonder when he is going to know anything about his own business......I wonder how long it will take him to see. i am not in the middle. and our cops did not get to beat me up this time, because I sweetly gave into there demands. I am still a prisoner of my husband and his theifs.....
so here then is my question; if it is illegal for them to post this paper and some one every one here dislikes, because her husband has been flattering there ear with stories, that no one looked at his debts and this person that Robert considers a retard picked up a paper that was illegal to be posted publicly, then they was just bullying me to cover up there own evil again...right, or am I wrong. Had I argued I would have been hassled until I was upset and thrown into court as a retard again. I shall have to watch my back and the back of the people I thought was my friends. I know for perfect suraty that there is one honest man in C.M.C. He does would not cheat some one that was supposed to be stupid. Had I been stupid for real, he would not have cheated me....I will love him forever. I will love him like God loves me. He will be my friend in heaven......I shall not forget....thank you those who did give me advice. I have been removed from the middle. I can not complain about that...right....
that makes sense about the rest of my family. they would not have access to that paper. I know about the debt, because at one time, I was married to them. And i did see that paper. Maybe the person who put it out was playing a prank on me. that is possible. that means that only Robert, and a few employees know the debt. Maybe every one owes debts so I look wierd to them. I have not cheated them so I look strange...I will see how it goes. right now, I am ok....this blog sure helped me through a stressful night. and I am banned from the store by a man who protects theifs......the owner...Robert Knedson..but he flatters all those other great business men who buy his products. at least he has some paying customers......he can have my husbands debt. I was wondering who the ginny pig for the debt my husband owed the store was going to be. i just knew it was not me....I am not responsible for other's debt......
and now to the great America....it is winter. snow is laying upon the ground. the desert is getting ready to spring forth in great bloom. I am happy today. When spring comes it is beautiful. there is an apricot tree in my yard. it is very beautiful. I have my own little store in my yard. I have a goat that gives me great milk. No one in town has persicuted me But Robert Knedson. He is the owner of C.M.C....let me refrase that. I am the owner of C.M.C. as part of the United Effort Plan. that means working for all. My goat will feed me. I wonder how he will pay Willard and Shelly's debt. He can only pay the money part. He can never take the filth from them. so, I sallute you Robert Knedson and your volinterring to leave me out of the middle of your cover up of theives.......I Have been screamed at before. I will never see you the same again......one day you will read your own paper.....my name is not on it.......and you owe me....when you are done paying the men's debt....you will be able to pay me. ten thousand dollars is the fine for discrimination. If you pay the debt of my husbands, you may be my guest and pay me the ten thousand dollars. We will not need to call Gary Engles in yet...he will come, when they come......and my husband will be charged...wait and see, gini pig......
Thanks for your story Ruth, I am glad you wont be in jail, they had nothing on you anyway.
Shame on Robert Knudson for treating you this way.
That man has no honor.
Think about what I say. Consider what I teach.
When I am no longer here or no longer teach the Gods ARE NOT going to share with you.
Even if you doubt now you need to remember the principles that I teach because the Gods ARE NOT going to be generous with the disfavored. Society is going to become disturbingly ugly as we approach the Apocalypse due to spiralling, runaway disfavor, WHETHER CONCEALED IN REVERSE POSITIONING OR NOT (like Christianity, like money), and you are going to be on your own.
I do not know when this will occurr, but it is the God's way to grant some time after a learning event such as this before they end on Planet Earth.
Make the decision to always be good and never look back. Until you do this technology will employ tactics to test your resolve:::Ridicule, beligerance, doubt and refusal to abandon what people perceive to be their "investment".
Either you make that decision now and accept the punishment for the sins of this life or you will pay for it in the next, reincarnated into a similarly low role, ensuring another wasted opportunity, or as an even lower form of life, and hope will begin to slip away.
Another lifetime, shot to hell.
Young people who understand yet still wish to have children MUST begin to do the right thing and work on fixing their relationship with the Gods, accepting the punishment for the evil they have done in their lives. Without this progress they won't do the correct thing for their children and ultimately cause even more problems for themselves by continuing this behavior.
You need to be willing to tell the Gods "No." when tested with temptation, and accepting punishment and putting it in your past is the only way you will suceed as a parent.
You need to do the best, teach your children and give them the very best chance to ascend if you want a similar opportunity in your next life.
If you do well for your children now your parents will do well for you when reincarnated.
Pray daily. Think appropriately. Impart these charecteristics upon your children. Too many are confident, unaware of the God's awesome powers or their status as antients. Others may fall prey to their positioning.
Be humbled, God-fearing and beware of the God's temptations, for everyone is tested to evaluate their worthiness.
Much as the celestial event which occured that day on Ocean Beach they say when I die there will be some final clue to the people suggesting my importance. Perhaps a "Star of Bethlehem" type of event.
They say some children see a halo on my head. These are the children who have a chance to ascend.
The entire Situation was a way to offer subtle clues for the "haves", distration-based theater for the "have-nots". With this document I am the end-stage "catch-all", an attempt to help everyone understand. Unfortunately, the Gods have retained the priveledge of refusal, manifested in positioning.
Lordy- what was that? The wild-eyed white-haired balding guy with the cult some years ago on the west coast?(can't recall his name.) It surely wasn't Warren. In spite of its craziness, that was uttered/written by someone with a much more developed vocabulary than anything I have read attributed to Warren.(Unless he plagiarized it from someone else's rambling.)
Wow, some mental person believes he is half god or something...crazy stuff!
special request again-to anon jan 7 12:10- who (what) WAS that incredible post? whose delirium are we this time considering, do pray tell??
Where does the line for the Koolaide begin?
I'm convinced. Nothing says, I want to be abused forever than a godling telling me that a GOD wants it. I mean, who WOULDN'T want to live forever with a deity that hates you? ;P
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