Monday, October 16, 2006

Mohave Co investigator assigned to CC living with "priesthood member?"

I heard some information that a Mohave County investigator assigned to CC is now living with a "priesthood member" in Colorado City. Does anyone know anything about this?

51 comments:

Anonymous said...

Who is Gary Engles?

Anonymous said...

What do you mean by living with?

Anonymous said...

Did he gain weight and try to dress like the Flds like that gay lady keeheehee.Is he going to write a book too?

Anonymous said...

I saw in a news story out of Utah a few months ago that he was renting a house from Richard Holm. Richard was excommunicated and has now recently moved back into his old house via Bruce Wisan.

If the person that floated that rumor about Gary had spent anytime with him, they would know that he would never tell the women or anyone leaving not to talk.

Anonymous said...

Fredonia Friend,

Where are you getting your misinformation from?

Your way off on this one.

Anonymous said...

Fredonia Friend get in your car and drive to Shortcreek.

Gary and his office is easy to find in Colorado City and you ask him.

"Good grief" as Charley Brown would say.

ATAR_i said...

Fredonia - are we talking 'female' friend?

I have always found that there is usually a grain of truth when stuff like this happens, the rest is usually more smoke than fire.

I'm just curious what the grain of truth is?

Anonymous said...

Go take a listen to this audio file of Flora Jessop speaking on last Saturday - she speaks at the end of this audio file so if you don't want to listen to Linda Walker talk for 45 minutes to an hour you will need to fast forward it. I think this is where this rumor must have started

http://exmormonfoundation.org/2006ConferenceReport

Scroll down to Saturday Sessions and choose the Stream option.

Fredonia Friend said...

I apologize to everyone, including my source. I didn't hear specifically that "Gary Engles was living with a Priesthood member," but believing there was only one investigator there from Mohave County, assumed the source was referring to him. I have changed the name of thread accordingly.

I apologize for not stating the information as I heard it, and to Mr. Engles if this has brought him any undue grief.

I will be more careful in the future.

Anonymous said...

Fredonia, you made a logical conclusion thinking it was him.

What other Mohave County investigator is there assigned to CC?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Did he gain weight and try to dress like the Flds like that gay lady keeheehee.Is he going to write a book too?

10/16/2006 11:23 PM

Maybe the "investigator" is staying at the same house the gay lady stayed in.

Anonymous said...

LAST OF THE SATURDAY BREAK OUT SESSION AT THE EXMORMON FOUNDATION 2006 CONFERENCE.

Very important program for sure.

Bryan Johnson of Bacchus Bartending: "The Art of Fixing and Mixing"
(Not recorded; we could only record two breakouts at the same time. And besides, a class on how to mix drinks? That's a hands-on activity!)
The Exmormon Foundation Business Meeting was not recorded.

ATAR_i said...

Who was Flora referring to then?

Anonymous said...

She was definatly reffering to Gary.

But just because Flora said it don't make it true!

Anonymous said...

Flora was directly referring to Mr. Engels.

The squeaky wheel get the oil, right Flora.

This time some outlandish things where implied.

Hope you can back them up.

Anonymous said...

This time?

onthestreet said...

Let me slap on the headphones and take a "look". I usually don't bother with such fantasies and pathologies, but... we'll see what's in the butt.

All I saw was brown. Polygamy is certainly WRONG. This is why the FLDS Church still faithful with the Prophet doesn't believe in it, nor practice it. For "God delights in the chastity of women". That is what is protected by the Prophet and the elect of God. They practice true virginity, even in procreation, and those cast off do not. This is why they were cast off.

It seems that Linda's focus was on a disproportionate death rate of children in Colorado City. There are no untimely deaths. God takes whom He will, and in the upheaval of cleansing it seams that there are children (she identified just four last year), who were called home, until Christ returns. Linda and Flora are talking as if they were murdered. In fact, they have made that very charge. Demons will always strive to demonize, in order to sensationalize the people.

Like I said, polygamy is WRONG, but plurality is right. You are all polygamists, all of you, the children of one God and millions of mothers on this earth. That's polygamy to the world, but Plurality to the saints. If God takes home more FLDS children than others, it is Christ Himself who said it: "Let the little children come unto me", and He would especially want to bring home those who are the choicest of spirits. Why dig up and rob childrens' graves because you fanaticize foul-play, while the parents mourn?

The Prophet cleaned up, and left there for good reason, even telling them: "You people are not worthy of a Prophet". But I sense that he has left some righteous people there for a righteous purpose. Flora spoke of dug-up graves. If some of the saints who left for YFZ took their children with them who had died over the years, that is certainly natural and proper and good. Who doesn't want their children to be near them, if they are indeed righteous.

I will finish this in another post. Take an intermission, and DO NOT choke on the popcorn.

onthestreet said...

To finish my reply to the "Ex-Mormon conference":

Like I said, Flora spoke of dug-up graves. So? If mounds were leveled to protect the others, or to leave the space tidy where some were carried home, that too is right, is it not? What I see in this conference, and indeed in anything that some floral-arrangement do, is disgruntled flowers looking for dirt to grow in, and for death to pin on others, because they are disgruntled over losing their own way. After all, it was the "EX-MORMON CONFERENCE" (or ex-FLDS Mormon), as in "EX", those who lost their way. So demons will seek whatever stump they can find.

However, I will grant this: If polygamists were sexually abusing their women and thus harming the child in the womb, like all the world does, which Uncle Rulon and Uncle Warren continually prohibited, then the Prophet is right in casting them off, is he not? In fact, Flora at this very conference quoted the authorities investigating the matter as saying: Quote: "We have seen those graves and investigated those issues, and in Colorado City there is nothing wrong". End-quote.

See! So that little floral arrangement is just globetrotting to seek whatever stump will give her blossom, in her desperation of hope against hope, to make some gullible soul believe that her crusade to demonize others somehow has had some purpose and redeeming value. Well, guess what? It has. It has tried and proven the folly of the unfaithful, and strengthened the resolve of the faithful. So God has used you, Flora. You go girl, straight to...um...wherever you can feel good and be useful, for God has used you, and you are loved.

"These six things doth the Lord hate..." But His children, He loves, and often enough to bring them home, back into His presence, for He so loves them. Everyone will agree, there is certainly nothing wrong with that, now is there.

ATAR_i said...

I'm curious what compelled her to make this statement.

I've no inside knowledge on the truth or fiction of it.

I do know it sounds odd - very odd - that he would do a 180 like that, AND that the priesthood would accept him - it sounds compeltely atypical.

I would definately need objective data in order to swallow a statement like that.

I would like flora, or someone who knows more about the data she's alleging to come on here and explain, using data, what she is talking about.

onthestreet said...

data, data, data. What are you, a tarry-feathered computer? Besides, NOTHING, and I mean absolutely NOTHING, is objective to those "computers" that are programmed with nothing but devils and their virus-infected ghosts.

You're just looking to take up space, aintcha? Gocha!

Anonymous said...

Steven, you have got to calm down a little.

ATAR_i said...

OTS - I'm talking about objective information (data) not subjective opinion. It can come in the form of a piece of paper, something on tape or a photograph - it need not be on a computer.

Someone has alleged Engels (the only investigator down there) of living with a priesthood member, and advocating that the FLDS 'keep their mouths shut'.

I think I'd need 'OBJECTIVE' data, and not accusations to believe something like that.

So, I'm saying - bring it on - show me how this is true.

And - this will just chap your hide, as I whisper it one more time....

"I need data"

Let it ring in your ears....I need it, and I don't care what you think of it.

Anonymous said...

Yes, this time.

I have heard "rumors" Flora said this and Flora said that.

Now I have heard what she has said with my own ears on this audio.

Anonymous said...

I understand that Flora lies and exaggerates to bring more media attention to this issue, but some of this stuff is so blatantly false it's embarrassing.

I mean she has lost all crediblity she has become the National Inquirer of polygamy.

I drive by the baby grave site probably twice a week. I have never seen all these new graves.

Are the real stories there not enough? Does she really have to continue fabricating things to add more spice. She has to start slamming the investigator there because he has verified the grave yard looks normal. So now she has to discredit him. There is no way in hell he is living in the home of one of the FLDS.

Flora if you read this start telling the truth and you will get all kinds of support from the disgruntled locals.

Anonymous said...

How can you know that for sure? I am assuming you are a disgruntled local. Couldn't things be happening that you don't know about? Why would these women make such serious allegations if they did not believe them to be true?

What do you make of the fact that some of the graves were recently dug up, and there are photos to prove this fact?

Anonymous said...

Well let see the photos.

FrendoniaFriend has stated they have seen these images.

Ms. Flora on the audio must had a powerpoint photo of such by listening to the audio.

pligchild said...

Howdy all you poor miserable haters! I have come to check on your work.

Fascinating, you people are finally getting a clue about Flora?
How do you tell if Flora Jessop is lying?

Her lips move.

Anyways, I have started my own blog, but you guys can't post there, only I can.

Check it out: http://fldsview.blogspot.com/

CTR

ATAR_i said...

Nice initiative, the layout is pleasant, I like the tiles you used. The font in the pop up window is off, too large and doesn't match (IMHO) - otherwise a solid effort.

Talking to yourself...a lot of people do the blog, but most don't talk to themselves. I see that format more as - say what you want, and just leave it out there. You can edit your intial posting, there is no point to responding to yourself as many as 9 times (to your own post). That's just my personal opinion - it looks odd.

As far as content - to each his own. You mention two examples in your UEP about how the FLDS was kind, but there are equally as many examples of how the FLDS was unkind, and how men didn't choose to apostasize, it was like 'wham!, your an apostate' out of the blue - should they still loose their assets? I don't think so. I suppose until it happens to you, you'll feel this way. Karma has a nice way of changing opinions.

Who you love the most, ok I was grossed out by that one - and won't comment further.

To each his own, nice effort, nice initiative - overall great job!

ATAR_i said...

As far as warren being a computer whiz, my friends were working on text to speech back in the late 80's and early 90's. Basically someone speaking and a computer interpretting it into text on the fly.

So searchable databases - my gosh, I was doing that in the early 90's and late 80's.

Anyone rememeber this

10 go to 20
20 print .....

computer programming - nuts and boltz - not a big deal - minimal education.

Back then, everyone was computer illiterate, and a little bit of knowlege made you look like a genius (but you weren't).

It still does, I don't do computers for a living, but I can set up a phpbb with ease, auto thumbnailing, and all sorts of dynamic programming and people go 'wow', but it's pretty darn simple.

btw- hope you enjoyed the anonymizer I surfed your site with : )

ATAR_i said...

Sorry, my initial computer programming was early 80's, and I did it as a kid (created my own computer programs and databases with large floppy discs larger than a CD).

pligchild said...

atari-

Thanks for the critique! It may (might) make me change the format. But I doubt it. Replying to myself keeps the front page as more of a teaser, sooo I might change it, I might not.

The fact that you cannot reply there makes it so you cannot throw your own version of reality at me there, there are plenty of places to do that, including here.

By your reply here to my posts ("ok I was grossed out by that one")I can tell very easily that you are a lot more sexually driven in your version of what "love" is. I can understand that, because in your world, Polygamy is sex first, family second,(i.e. you think "banking on heaven" is a documentary) but I am glad that we are discussing it here and not there.

As far as computer programming, you are "wow", very few people who post on this blog even know what HTML is, still, your friends were "whizzer" than Warren. He was all about Accounting, not much else.

Warren Jeffs taught me Basic programming in high school(1988), I had goofed with it before, (Timex Sinclair 1000) so I knew a little before. By that time he was already using the Searchable TEXT DOCUMENT (searchable info-, not data- base) software that they bought from a company named Folio Corporation, That was years before Windows 3.1 came out in 1992 and people started using their home computers for more than just games. Before hard drives, unfloppy floppys, etc. Tech has come a long way. I didnt go much beyond Basic, as I went into Construction and Trucking rather than go to work with Mr Jeffs and Seth. Though he did offer me a job.

I am telling my version on my blog, and staying out of flames.

Hate on!
Keep Sweet!

CTR

ATAR_i said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ATAR_i said...

I can see how having 'replies' might be a teaser, and seen as such, makes more sense.

I think it's perfectly appropriate to have a blog without peoples responses, many people do it - it's about THEM, and THEIR THOUGHTS - and that is perfectly appropriate.

I don't believe I sexualize love more than you or vice versa, I think that statement is devoid of objective data, and rooted in prejudice and preconceived ideas. You can't have any idea how I feel about such things since you don't know me/and vice versa.

I didn't realize that scenario was about you - you didn't state it as such. Still, from a female perspective outside your community - blech.

I find your parting remarks offsetting...

"hate on" follwed by "keep sweet".

Are you stating your own feelings, or encouraging someone to behave in two completely contradictory ways. Either way it's odd on the most base level.

Anonymous said...

CTR

The AIMOO blog has a user "plygkid" that is definitely anti-warren. You might want to consider another name.

Anonymous said...

When Curious or Onthestreet post, just remember that there are probably several people using these names. Val Jessop, Laurene Jessop a touch of Ruth, a Nathan, a Bradshaw and etc...

ATAR_i said...

I didn't realize that.

Which personality is which?

I've identified at least two or three different personalities.

1. the spiritual BOM/Bible/D&C quoting massive post OTS
2. the sexually perverse word association OTS
3. the rational OTS

Any idea whom is whom?

Any idea why they share the same personality?

Would Val be the one who quotes the massively long theologically interesting posts

And Laurene the rational one

And Nathaniel the sexually perverse one?

Is Nathaniel 'the same' Nathaniel from the paper?

Who is Bradshaw?

Anonymous said...

Hi CTR.

I took a look at your blog and I don't understand why someone would have a blog where he/she is the only person who can post anything. Kinda strange. Why don't you just have your own home page? Why a blog?

But anyway, I just wanted to inform you that you cite a man and you call him DARE Lebaron. His name was DAYER. Not Dare. This man had a "Y" in his name.

onthestreet said...

Check it out: http://fldsview.blogspot.com/
CTR 10/20/2006 9:36 PM

STREET's Reply: CTR, you are to be commended. There's an example of confessing one's sins, and
repenting from afar, and this is what makes one an instrument in the hands of God.

onthestreet said...

CTR 10/21/2006 3:10 PM

I wouldn't change the format one bit. Maintain your liberty, and keep it clean, YOUR testimony to the world, not an admixture of corruption piled on top.

muggsey said...

It would be a joy to the rest of us bloggers if you would follow your own advise street. Especially concerning the "keep it clean" part. I know it's difficult for one who keeps his fingers in the potty to reform but, if you are as 'holy' and 'righteous', as you profess yourself to be, the task should be small.

onthestreet said...

Ahh, me holy and righteous. That would be nice to accomplish that. Yes, that is what we are here for, and especially in the FLDS Church.

That is our joy, and there is no crime in that. But being in the world, strongly-worded detergents are often required to get your accusations and misconceptions cleaned up, let alone keeping them that way, you see?

As for keeping our finger in the pot, "Ye are the pot, and I am the Potter, saith the Lord". He keeps His own finger upon that man or woman who can remain pure in an impure world. That's the key.

pligchild said...

Blogger lets you use any name you want? Wow.

I am not the real atar_i

ATAR_i said...

Wow - how did you do that?

Poster above is not me, but can post in my name, that's actually slightly scarry.

feralfem said...

Yikes. How is this possible, when a password is required?

If you look at the profile, it's different and has a completely different profile number.

Does Blogger allow more than one of the same userid???

Something's definitely amiss and more than "slightly" scary!! Trick or treat time, eh?

muggsey said...

I AM the potter, you are the clay.

This quote has nothing to do with my previous post. It refers to the omnipitence of GOD. HE IS the CREATOR, we, and everything else, are the created. As GOD, HE may do with us as HE wishes.

The reference is to the potter working at the potter's wheel. If the vessel he is molding into a usable instrument develops a flaw, such discovery of some foreign material mixed with the clay, or perhaps the design doesn't fit the potters idea of excellence, he, the potter has the complete right and responsability to take the clay, with which he/she is working, and throw it on the trash pile as unsuitable for use as the finished product.

onthestreet said...

This is why we marry within the Order. No mixing the clay. That was well put, Les. Good job, you little munchkin.

ATAR_i said...

Mugs - are you on the aimoo forum - if so - how is it going?

muggsey said...

atar_i

I answered this question on the "Texas Polygamy" post. Have you been able to get the blog to accept you as the only atar_i?

confirm with some answer that you know that I will recognize if you are indeed atar_i. OK?

furnace said...

atar_i

The comment "I would like to see how long muggsey lasts at the aimoo blog" was misinterpreted. I meant if he were to go there, how long would he last. I never meant to imply that he is there.

Sorry about misleading english. It wasn't intentional.

ATAR_i said...

I talked to admin - I asked if they could look into it. It's probably beyond their control.

So, if I say something completely out of character - click on the 'atar_i' and see if it's my profile.

If someone goes to all the trouble of copying my profile - the click the email me button.

If it goes to atar_i@hotmail.com - it's me.

Or - you can just email me right off.

onthestreet said...

Just don't blow her off entirely, right Tar?