Tuesday, September 12, 2006

Spectrum reports "Rumors of child deaths unfounded"

The Spectrum, the newspaper in nearby Saint George is reporting that concerns surrounding alleged questionable deaths of children in the CC/Hildale communty are unfounded.

Here is the direct link: http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060910/NEWS01/609100313/1002/

Note also the comments posted by readers

What do those of you who live in the community think about the controversy?

56 comments:

Anonymous said...

and you will see that the rumors and charges agains Warren Jeffs are unfounded too.........but you know what; every time there has been known abuse, every one in my church has reported it and tryed to put a stop to it.........the honest one's have. Some times there are cases when corrupt men walk away and then they are caught sooner or later.......and there is not one iota of teachings that condone abuse in our church...and if you listen close to the teachings it is written; in rightousness...........and there will be an accounting to those who persicute an inacent man........though you all have a right to worship how you want; there will be an accounting for what you do to an inacent man.......for all truth is written, and men only take truth with them into the next life....it is all written and recorded. every particle of truth....May Jesus triamph.....and truth abideth forever.....but then again can you be certian that the paper portrays the truth?

Anonymous said...

What I don't understand is why the FLDS don't condone abuse, yet a boy over 18 molests his younger sister and they fanagle him out of prison. A grandpa molests a grandchild; the offended father leaves the religion, and is considered apostate, but the grandpa was fanagled out of prison (although he did lose his family over it, and justly so). Another man molests five daughters and doesn't even spend a year in prison over it. Why? If we really don't condone abuse, why aren't these people out picking up street litter or making highway signs?

Now, as far as the charges against Warren being found false; O.J. Simpson was found not guilty of murder.

Anonymous said...

We all know by now that "the spectrum" will print anything reguarding "flds"

truth,untruth,speculation,alledged,etc...)

to cause a surge in the sales of it's items.

All it has to say is:

"it's been reported that the flds"

and they have their extra $$$ for the "boss"

Anonymous said...

Yea, but its about time it printed the truth.

polywatchin said...

Spectrum don't seem to report on much going on in their back yard. They must be sympathetic to the FLDS. If a top tenner was arrested and brought to the little town I live in, you bet the next bigger town over would be on it.

Anonymous said...

I am sure that St. George would not want there closet opened and Pheonix reports gross crimes on the news all the time.

Anonymous said...

You talk of "flds" children dying, whether it be by natural causes or a tragic accident... and it is suggested that it is something to look into???

Right in your own back yards, neighborhoods,cities... there are children being sexually molested and killed, killed by derainged parents,babysitters,neighbors,day care professionals... and you speculate that in c.c. and hildale that there may be foul play???

HELLO!! There has NEVER been a child MURDERED ! amoung FLDS people.

Spectrum!! you should be ashamed of yourself for printing such an article. If you want to stop innocent children from being killed, look no further than those in your own community where people are commiting these hiddious crimes.

Anonymous said...

and every child has a death certificate and a birth certificate.

Anonymous said...

and the spectrum and these stupid film people who distort things so badly and distort things should be stopped.....because even if a person does talk to a film person they do pick out little bits of talk and portray things that was not there....and then they say that it is what the public wants to hear. I did disagree. and i hope they do put a stop to slanderous reporting, for what they said; for sensationalisim. and they twist the truth up so bad that if there was any abuse, the abusers are ignored why they point every thing to slander an inacent man. when in truth the man was not guilty of any crime......crime comes in all forms...and reporting for sensationalism is a crime in my book. besides the places for woman to go to get away from abuse is behind locked doors why the men run lose. this is the way it is in the neighboring city. I was so shocked. if woman needed proteced; why take them from there homes and put them in locked doors. i asked them why. they told me to protect them. weird. why not take the men of the street. course you never know. maybe there jail is only big enough for people who believe in God and doing good. looks like things are a little backwards to me. but at any rate, all the children i know have a death certificate and doctor's reasoning.

Anonymous said...

Holy smokes!

Did anyone even read the article? It says the child death claims by the activists are not true. Did ANYONE read the article?

Anonymous said...

BEAR, YOGI
Birth Date: 02/11/50
Address : , ,
Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
16:31:55 09/12/06 Jones, Shauna WCSO

Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
76-10-105 MINOR POSSESS TOBACCO CM [No Payments Made]
76-9-301.8 Bestiality: Sex W/ An BM [No Payments Made]

Washington County Jail Log

TRUTH IS BETTER THAN FICTION ANY DAY.

Warren has a host of good fine folks around him, daily.

Uncle Ratt said...

Fredonia Friend, The hype about the unmarked baby graves in Hildale is just that, a lot of hype. There are people such as Flora who'd do anything they can to agitate any bad reputation they can come up with to smear the communities. There are no child murders going on in Hildale/CC. I do know of a couple of cases where there were extreme birth defects where a child could have been kept alive on life support but the decision was made to let them die instead. I think this is only humane. The accusations about the murder of unwanted babies in the society is absolute bs. The polygamists have babies because they want them and they do love them.

desert darling said...

Flora was out to make trouble when she made accusations of killing babies. It was probably more believable because the baby cemetary is seperate from the bigger one.
I think that came about for some religious reason, the most pure and innocent etc.
It was really wierd that some of the grave markers were taken off. They probably never did have headstones, they get expensive.

I have known some of the mothers who have babies in that graveyard. Most of their babies were girls. One mother is no longer part of the community and had to fight to have access to her baby's grave because the FLDS fenced it off to keep Flora's media out of it.

My suspicion of the unmarked graves is that they were warren's children from mothers who were on a strict diet and didn't have proper nutrition so they miscarried. A very drastic occasion for a wife desperate to prove her worthiness to have a child.

gadestring said...

Desert darling,

Can you say more about the strict diet and lack of proper nutrition? Just Warren's wives? Why?

TBM said...

I'm always suspicious of claims that some boogeyman has done something terrible to children. Because children provoke strong protective instincts among adults, where children are concerned, people tend to react first and think later, it's a great way to slander your enemy! And going right back to the Roman Empire, history is full of people accusing the enemy of routinely doing appalling things to children.

To the Romans, the Gauls made their children into pies. During World War 1, the Germans ate babies for breakfast. In Utah today, the FLDS are quietly murdering them and sticking them in unmarked graves. Same old, same old!

I have no sympathy whatever for the FLDS, but I don't doubt they're human beings who experience the exact same normal human emotions toward babies the same as anyone else on the planet.

Obviously, baby killers are not unknown, but they're very rare. Serial baby killers are even rarer. People co-operating and covering up for baby killers is even rarer. Mothers quietly forgetting about their murdered babies and carrying on as normal has to be the rarest of all!

polywatchin said...

Hey, not murder! Accidental deaths. Carelessness.

polywatchin said...

Gadestring,
Warren is skinny-did you see he was eating salad when they caught him? Maybe he is anorexic and thinks his wives should be skinny too.

Anonymous said...

The Nevada Polygamy site has a bunch of nonsense from some woman author on this subject. As an ex-FLDS, I call the writing of "Grave Silence" a complete work of sensationalized garbage. When I was in, my child was delivered with proper medical care, and if a mother gets in trouble, the ambulance will take her to St. George.

Maybe one person's house was the way this article described. Maybe where she stayed, babies weren't delivered with proper medical care and maybe a lot did die. One thing, though, is that the "holier" the house, the more likely this nonsense is to occur, but I am not aware of any house in the FLDS "holy" enough for that nonsense.

Anonymous said...

432 poster; here is a poem for you. I dedicate this poem to you because you say that you are not sympathetic to the F.L.D.S. yet you say that murder of children is rare. and covering this up is rarest of all.

The general stood upon the banks,
gently looking at his ranks.
there was no tears in his eye,
just the glare of the sun gone bye.
his men valient and bold,
lay there in the ground so cold.
the war was faught,
the battle wraught.
and who won the conflict,
other's did inflict?
Who would write to the one's at home,
across the rolling foam?
to explain the gallant right.
of freedom won for the fight.

and such is slander and talk about; when men are blackened with a shout.
some one fell that day.
and the call was terriorist in the fray.
gossip spoken and truth buried with the men, who lay upon the drying den.

and they speak upon the line,
of a gossip conviction just like mine.

you would not defend an inacent man, though if it was you, you would do all you can. and war is terrible to all who die. No matter the rule or the lie.

gadestring said...

polywatchin,

Warren has always been pretty skinny. Yes, I understand he was eating a salad. I have to applaud that, however. If one primarily ate 80% raw foods (like fresh salads) all the time, one would be much more healthy than most of the rest of this country's (generally overweight) population.

I'm interested in what diet strictures he put on his wives that elicited darlin's comment about their lack of proper nutrition.

gadestring said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
TBM said...

7:33 poet, I'm really not sure what you're trying to say, so I apologize if I've got the wrong idea. But you seem to be saying that if I don't sympathize with the FLDS, I should just accept the baby-murder allegations as gospel truth. Or that if I'm willing to defend the FLDS in one thing, I should leap to their defense in all things.

That view is invalid and cowardly. I defend the FLDS about baby murder because I don't believe it. I don't have to agree with somebody before I stand up for what I believe to be the truth. And I hope I never sink so low as to willfully, knowingly connive with what I am convinced is a lie. That's what people in Nazi Germany did.

Anonymous said...

warren is a skinny child molester who needs put in a cell with one of the village people!!!

Anonymous said...

Three women interviewed in the documentary, "Banking on Heaven" shared experiences similar to the concerns expressed by those requesting an investigation.

Elaine Jeffs asserts that LeGrande Wooley drowned a child that was born deformed, and that it was condoned by church leaders.

Carolyn Jessop stated that her
ex-husband just wished their disabled child "would be gone."

Another woman insinuated that her child died, either due to medical neglect, or at the hands of someone else (I couldn't tell which from the description).

There is also the question of whether all births in the community have been recorded.

For everyone's benefit-those inside and outside of the community, these concerns should be investigated. If there is no evidence found, then the suspicions will end and we can all sleep a little better.

Concerned

desert darling said...

warren in his more fanatical days instituted a strict diet for his wives, which while Uncle Rulon was alive, included his househole too. It may have somewhat started with Rulon when he was in better health-as in before his stroke. Since Rulon was getting older, he had to be careful of his diet, and neither man could stand fat people, so they just put the whole Hildale compound on the diet.
Unfortunately what is right for one person isn't always right for all, especially pregnant women.
The Hildale compound also had their own midwife, which is very legal in Utah (I wish it was in Arizona), who moved down from Salt Lake. A very experienced and talented care taker.

The health clinic in Hildale, at Uncle Fred's house, has superb medical facilities and top notch delivery rooms, even a jacuzzi for laboring mothers. Licensed nurses and doctors. Women got checkups every month and had to sign a consent form at the initial checkup that if anything went wrong, they agreed to be shipped to the Dixie Regional Hospital in St George. I wasn't too thrilled about doing that!


By the way, just because we suspect and believe that warren has done terrible things, he still has a right to a trial. We are more civilazed than he is.

Anonymous said...

ya, right you are.

Anonymous said...

OH FOR GOODNESS SAKE!
Do un marked graves scare people?Get over it .

Anonymous said...

Dr.Phill put an entire town on a diet .So....Fat kills.

Anonymous said...

"We are more civilazed than he is."

Unless of course, he is found innocent.

CTR

muggsey said...

Let him be brought to trial. Let the witnesses be heard and let Jeffs cross-exmine. If he is freed then, for his having run to avoid prosecution he should pay the penalty of being castrated. His whole attitude toward plural marriage would loose a lot of its ferver. If he's convicted then fifty one years in solitary confinement with no contact to outside parties or persons should be the sentence. Maybe Utah could rent a jail cell on St. Helena Is.
After all, if that place was good enough for Napoleon, Warren, with his 'Emperors Complex' ought to fit right in.

Anonymous said...

CTR,

OJ was found innocent.

TBM said...

Do un marked graves scare people?

Well yes, actually. Since it's quite unusual for someone to be buried without somebody -- even the local priest -- giving a damn, unmarked graves rather imply something deeply regretable.

onthestreet said...

9/16/2006 8:02 PM
Maybe on Halloween.

desert darling said...

The worst thing about warren going to jail and trial, is that the most horrendus acts he committed are not against the law.

muggsey said...

Embezzlement, forcing underaged marriage, fleeing to avoid arrest. NOT AGAINST THE LAW? WRONG!

desert darling said...

Rippping the families appart is not illegal because they did it themselfs, on his word.

Anonymous said...

D.D.

Let's not forget about child abandonment, too.

muggsey said...

But, his binding and giving permission to rape a child makes him subject to prosecution. He is an accessary to the crime of rape of a minor. The consumation of the act of sexual penetration by the new "husband" of the minor child was approved by Jeffs himself. There is some probability that the incident would not have occurred without Jeffs' approval. Therefore Jeffs is held accountable for promoting an illegal act of unlawful sexual union with a child.

onthestreet said...

The laws of man are always the inventions of man, and oppose the laws of God. It is NOT abandonment nor the abuse of a child for God Himself to direct the discipline of those whom He loves, to cast off Cain, to even slay millions at the Flood, or for Christ to offer families "a sword", not peace.

Fleeing against the law? Christ FLED all the way to Egypt, and was a fugitive FROM THE LAW for decades.

IS CHRIST THE LORD AGAINST YOUR LAW, even today, and ready to be crucified anew?

Now it is true, ball-babies will ball and get snotty-nosed, even mess their pants. Still, they must be disciplined...In fact, all the more reason to discipline them.

Evil must ALWAYS be cast off, else you become evil yourselves, which you are now if you think such disciplines are wrong. It is love. Tough love, granted, and no greater love hath a man than to lay down his life for his friends.

onthestreet said...

9/20/2006 5:31 PM

The priest, the judge, the Prophet, seal the union, but they are NEVER accountable for the sins of others. That is just marriage, and what does the Lord say about it in the latter times, today? (I Timothy 4):

1. Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2. Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3. FORBIDDING TO MARRY...

desert darling said...

Anon 1:04

He may be able to be prosecuted for child abandonment.

Anonymous said...

Street,

Why do you keep telling us about immaculate conception, but consistently act like you have an infantilism problem, time and time again in your posts? Is that pedophilic tendencies leaking out?

onthestreet said...

9/21/2006 8:40 AM

The little child, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven.

muggsey said...

He mourns because he can never achieve the position or honor that is GOD'S alone.

onthestreet said...

So true. We will NEVER equal our Father, though a few will find Him, and be like Him. Tis no mourning in that, to be a joint heir to God, with His Son Jesus Christ.

muggsey said...

If pedophilia is a product of heaven you have found a false road map. If you can testify that pedophilia is being practiced in the place you call heaven, I certainly don't want to go there. I'm really not surprised concerning your conclusion considering that Satan is your tour guide.

onthestreet said...

Les, you admin to raping your nanny, and then you just can't stop talking about pedophilia. Your heart and mind just can't dwell on anything else, can it? Sorry, I cannot testify to any such thing. You of all people should know that is not an allowable practice. This is why you were excommunicated, Les, by your own doing, leaving, because you couldn't stand your guilt among innocence. We just feel sorry for you.

onthestreet said...

Typo: Les, you ADMIT...

muggsey said...

You have commpletely lost it! Vanity and halucinations.

onthestreet said...

Well, twas you who said you raped your nanny. We would only hope that it was only a nanny-goat that you raped, and not one of God's precious daughters.

Then, you got your son involved with it, as you said, and that is pedophilia. Both are serious crimes against God and man.

We hear tell that you also wore nothing to a halloween party, except a panty-hose with a third leg sewed in for your immoral pleasure, and a whole lot more things, some even recently.

And you sit there glibly casting stones at righteous men! An eternal record is being formed, and saith the Lord: "Their sins shall be shouted from the mountain-tops".

muggsey said...

These remarks are so silly they don't deserve a reply.

onthestreet said...

And yet...and yet, you replied! How revealing. They DO DESERVE A REPLY, FOR YOU REPLIED.

Anonymous said...

Could we get back to the topic at hand? I have heard that several of the unmarked graves have been dug up, and that some have been levelled off, making difficult to see where the graves are.

Also, that some babies are buried at home or in the canyons.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Could we get back to the topic at hand? I have heard that several of the unmarked graves have been dug up, and that some have been levelled off, making difficult to see where the graves are.

Also, that some babies are buried at home or in the canyons.

10/17/2006 11:50 AM

Oh anonymous you have been listening to Flora haven't you.

onthestreet said...

Yes, that poor floral-arrangement, and the arrangement she's made with the devil. Poor thingy.

Anonymous said...

onthestreet,

Your efforts to dehumanize Flora in the eyes of these readers is right in line with the systematic brainwashing techniques of this cult. You refer to her as an object "floral arrangement" and "thingy."

Interesting.