Friday, September 15, 2006

Guns going to Texas

Has anyone heard anything about FLDS shipping guns to Texas to protect themselves against the Feds invading the compound at YFZ?

96 comments:

fttc said...

Where did you hear of it?

Anonymous said...

uncle rat, is that nesisary?

Anonymous said...

whar iz thu dicshunary wen wun nieds et?

Anonymous said...

B stinkin S

Keep hope'n rat

Anonymous said...

dear season is coming...

muggsey said...

YFZ

Don't expect that the feds will wait forever if they plan to attack YFZ. GWB is not Mamby Pamby Clinton and Janet Reno is in the pasture for good.

I'm not saying an attack is imminent, I have no way to know, nor would I tell you if I did.

I'm not your buddy nor am I going to betray any confidence.

Anonymous said...

IMO the reason for LE to attack YFZ no longer there. We all know that Warren Jeffs is in Purgatory, a just place for him.

As long as people at YFZ mind their own business and no one leaves from YFZ claiming sex abuse as a child, there is no reason to attack YFZ.

Owning guns is not a crime. Most people in Eldorado, TX own several.

The people at YFZ may have stockpiled weapons in case of raid looking for Warren Jeffs, but there IMO will be no raid as Feds have what they want, Warren Jeffs in jail.

TBM said...

The FLDS are not the Branch Davidians. David Koresh had a couple of hundred followers. The FLDS amount to a small army. It's not going to happen.

But it does worry me that they seem to be regarding themslves in that light.

gadestring said...

Why would the Feds invade the YFZ compound?

Anonymous said...

9:00 Eastern Time

DSC — Assault on Waco
Assault on Waco

Discover the truth about the 1993 WACO incident through never-before-seen transcripts of FBI negotiations, tapes, bugged conversations from an undercover agent and rare interviews with some of the few Waco and Branch Davidian survivors.

onthestreet said...

Ratt is just a criminal inciter, seeking blood, seeking to incite crime. Joseph said it best, that such will have all the blood they ever hoped upon others.

Anonymous said...

The FLDS have never been agressive. They have always believed that the Lord would protect them. It is those who have left the group that are scared s#@%less,because they know what is coming and they know that they are not prepared. Therfore they gather up guns themselves, and make up lies about those that have chosen to remain faithful.

Anonymous said...

Today is a very sad day in history; there is an article in the daily spectrum saying that religion is not necassary. this article was written by a man who claimed to have studied the gospel all his life. Is it then that America has degraded itself to turn from honesty. For religion is what you believe. If you believe in hatred that is your religion. If you believe in God that is your religion. Now they say that there is not an attack on our religion and then they openly say that there is. and indeed it would be interesting to hear the truth about WACO. because i did watch the tapes and came to the conclusion that these people were murdered........and our government did this horrible thing. and who of you will be next? no wonder they burn our flag in other countries and kill our souldiers. and who of you are really free?

Uncle Ratt said...

OTS
Do you remember when we were ordered by our leaders to turn in all our guns? I can remember at least three times that this happened. I have no thirst for blood and I do not own any guns, there are no guns in my household. If you or anyone else would choose to attack me you would get no resistance as God has protected me and I believe He will continue to do so.

There are many reasons LE would want to go into YFZ. One would be to rescue any of the disatisfied, under-aged girls that have been forced into a relationship that has turned out very bad for them and they have smuggled word out that they desire to be rescued. Another reason would be to subpoena witnesses to testify against the unlawful actions of WJ. They may also be looking for some of those who have disappeared. I have faith that God will mete out justice to those who deserve such. Better start quakin' in your boots, Street.

onthestreet said...

RAT (9/18/2006 5:31 PM).

Sorry, in a Zion, a heaven on earth, there is no "dissatisfied" nor need for "smuggling word out", nor is there any requirement for wives to testify against their husbands, or children against their fathers.

All these are pandemics within your own envirnoment, as you can clearly see in the daily news. Yes, as John saw in Revelation, "the nations are angry, and God is now coming out in His vengeance against the nations of the earth". Me quake? Yes, I do fear the Lord.

Anonymous (9/17/2006 5:33 PM):
So True.

Anonymous said...

yes, street; there are no contention's in Zion. rememeber the story of the son's of helaman? they watched there father's be killed for the oath that they took that they would not fight again. no matter what.....and they did keep there words. in the day of Jesus when he was crusified, many did also lay down there lifes at the hand of there brother's because they did testify of this Christ. He then did come in glory after his death and teach them of the reserection. Ye, who give your life for the gospel shall find it again. and yes, the only fear in Zion is fear to offend God. for in his hand alone is life....

Anonymous said...

YES! my greatest fear is not what man can do to me, or cause hardships on me here in this life. My Greatest fear is to OFFEND GOD.

muggsey said...

Aren't you an apostate street? You don't live among the elect at YFZ but elswhere among the gentiles. Is your caution an effort to restore you into the good graces of WJ? Your constant squalk is that of a small animal with a toe caught in a trap. P L E A S E ! ! Someone ---- notice me! I am so alone and afraid, and those awful people on the Texas Polygamy Blog don't believe anything I say, and make fun of my idiocy. H E L P ! ! !

muggsey said...

P.S.

Why don't you copy the actions of a wolf and gnaw through the offending toe and get on with life. Your whines are a bore.

Anonymous said...

Definition of an Apostate:

Someone who has turned against the Prophet. And has NO desire to repent.

Definition of someone asked to repent from afar:

Someone going in humility, accepting the assignment, and Yearning to do better. Thus, repenting and returning again amongest the faithful, (in the Lords own time and way), who are serving the Lord by keeping his commandments.

We do not put a time limit upon the Lord. This is his work, his earth, and it is him, that we seek to please.

Anonymous said...

I hope they do invade that nasty place. They need to invade Eldorado, and all the other sects of FDLS. What they do is wrong. All they are doing is commiting horrible acts of child abuse. They all deserve to die.

fttc said...

For all of you FLDS. The post of 2:04 is an example of hate. It is based in ignorance but it is hate. That is not what you are getting from LE or most of those who have an interest in the apprehension of warren. When this hate is acted upon and mobs are forming against you then you can start to say you are being persecuted.

fttc said...

oops 2:06

Anonymous said...

the mobs have come.

muggsey said...

fttc:

I strongly believe in justice. Justice is truth and the rightness of an incident explored and exposed for all to witness.

If you hate someone are you not just as guilty as they? It is possible to detest the incident or practice without hating the individual. God, for instance hates sin. Sin is not a person it is a circumstance where a poor choice was made. The result was that the individual who "sinned" was hurt and often others were hurt too.

God hates sin but loves the sinner. Proof of this statement is provided in God's sacrifice of his only begotten son, Jesus the Christ as atonement for the sins of the individual and of the world as a whole. Acceptance of God's perfect salvation, His Grace, in the example of Jesus death on the cross in forgivness for your sin is God's plan for your salvation, nothing you can do or could do but something that was done for you. Why? Because God loves you.

onthestreet said...

"These six things doth God Hate..."
(The Word of the Lord).

Anonymous said...

What you talked to God Street? You really think that God harbors hate?

You know what happens when mere mortals delude themselves into thinking they speak for God (or think they are God)... Current events in the FLDS highlight that poinently.

muggsey said...

Yes, but not one of them is a humanbeing, it's a rebuke against the Lord's work and a denial of His love. Each of the six is a sin, not a sinner.

onthestreet said...

That's right, Les. God loves ALL of His children, but "God Hates", just like His Word says He does. Also, that He brings not peace, but a sword, for what? Against the evils that He hates. Also, that He will say to all the disobedient who reject "the least of these, thus rejecting Him: "Depart ye cursed, I never knew you".

God's capacity to hate doesn't mean He can't love. God IS love.

muggsey said...

Street:

You are so confused and deranged that you remove those parts that don't support your ideas and borrow parts of one verse just to make another verse say what you want it to say. Your effort reminds me quite a bit of Joseph Smith and his queer take to suport his skewed and obscure revelations.

Quote in entirety and in context, or not at all.

onthestreet said...

You compare me to Joseph Smith? I am truly humbled. No greater compliment did any man ever pay another. To what do I owe this honor? Certainly, I am not even a candle compared to that blazing star, but thanks.

Now, we know that you are teething and whatnot, maybe needing a diaper change, but what other complaints are throwing you off like that, calling people deranged without even showing it to be so.

Let's take one specific statement of mine, just one, ANY ONE, your pick, and then see it that is degranged. Then you can prove to us all whether you have any credibility left, Les.

Deal?

onthestreet said...

TYPO: "See if that is deranged".

Sorry for being so...wHaT? Deranged, perhaps? See, I just proved Les's point to be absolutely wrong, because whenever I see an error, I do try to correct it.

Okay, now Les: Pick ONE statement, and let's see the err therein. Can you do that for us?

Oh, that's such a BIG BOY. Come on now, we know you can do it.

Anonymous said...

do you guys go on and on with each other for just for the sake of argument. If I shot each of your bibles with a shotgun, would that make it holier??

muggsey said...

annon. 7:12

Being penetrated by a shotgun blast might produce holes in the book but the truth lives on.

There have been c ountless crusades by forces opposed to the Bible who have saught it's utter destruction. Each and every assault has failed. Attempts to destroy the Bible result in it's truth being spread further and further.

Think how boring the blog without exchanges between people like me and street, fttc etc. Atar_i is a master at rebuttal. What are you contributing?

I don't agree with much the FLDS or LDS post but, I will support their right to dis-agree with me. I am not the final judge, are you?

muggsey said...

okay street,

Prove that you are not deranged. Your word alone is not acceptable testimony.

onthestreet said...

9/21/2006 8:22 PM

Has anyone heard anything about FLDS shipping guns to Texas to protect themselves against the Feds invading the compound at YFZ?
posted by Uncle Ratt at 11:14 AM on Sep 15 2006



No need. Besides, if I write something to "proove" anything to a clogged up mind, and my word is not acceptable anyway, not even the sunshine is proof to you that the Sun exists.

onthestreet said...

Faith without works is dead, Les, and "Without faith, tis IMPOSSIBLE to please God.

Anonymous said...

Why don't they put the money into getting the young girls off the streets.Lock up a few pimps and johns?

muggsey said...

Oh, I believe in GOD'S created universe, the sun, stars, moon, earth and the planets. I just don't look to their relationship toward each other to determine a direction for life.

I believe in GOD, creator of heaven and earth, in JESUS the Christ, the ONLY Begotten Son of GOD THE FATHER, I believe in the SPIRIT OF GOD, HOLY AND TRUTHFUL.
I believe that from before the Earth was that GOD, knowing all things, seeing all things, fore knew the fall of Adam and made preparation for his redemption through the shed blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary's Cross, as attonement for not only Adam's sin but the sins of the world, including mine.

I believe at the established time GOD caused a third of HIMSELF to be born in human flesh to the virgin Mary. GOD who created life, earth, stars and planets would have no problem with accomplishing such a small event as impregnation of a young woman with life. She was a virgin when she concieved, she was a virgin when she gave birth to JESUS. Only after her recovery from JESUS' birth did Joseph know her as his wife.

I believe that JESUS death on the cross and his burial in Joseph's borrowed tomb was not the end of the story. I believe that upon the third day, Jesus conquered death and the grave, he accomplished this activity as GOD. HE required no outside assistance. This act established to all who believe that by becoming one-with-him we too will be delivered from the second, or spiritual death which results in one's soul being cast into the lake of fire. JESUS appeared to up to 500 persons on several occasions, promised to return in due time and receive his own unto himself, gave marching orders to his diciples and accended back to HIS perfect home where HE Sits again at the right side of GOD and from there he will judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the HOLY SPIRIT, the third person of GOD, who manifest himself upon the diciples in the upper room on the tenth day following JESUS' accention back into HEAVEN. I believe that I am in continous communication with GOD, through HIS Third Person, THE HOLY SPIRIT and therfore have no need of Prophet or Priest to make intersession in my behalf. My responsability is to GOD not a man. My person is made perfect in the person of JESUS the CHRIST with whom I will be called up and reign with HIM throughout eternity.

Now street, I have given you my complete confession of faith in the three in one GOD, not multiple gods, not desinged by human hands, nor made up in a deranged human mind. I do not answer to any earthly being, but to GOD, on high.

My faith, trust and life style are in harmony with GOD'S will for my life. Am I perfect? No, just saved. Am I saved by obedience to the law, NO, but by the shed blood of JESUS. Do my good works save me? NO, they are just evidence of Christ living in me. Should I receive praise for doing good works? Not necessarily, and certainly not important. My LORD knows my heart and will. I trust my whole existence into HIS just care. His invitation "Well done, thou good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of your reward" is the only praise I count as important, all other praise is dross.

Anonymous said...

Mugs-
I enjoyed your testimony. Thanks.
I believe that if you become one with God (what I also call "like God"), you will be worthy of being lifted up. (Or what you call "the rapture") That is the most important thing for all of us.

I believe alot of our religions differ only in the definitions of words.

For instance:
Saved to you is Converted to me
Saved to me is Perfected.

As far as the Trinity, we both believe in God as our heavenly Father, and Jesus as his Only Begotten Son. And that Jesus died for our sins. And that the Spirit of Christ can be in us.

What else matters?

I belive They are One in the sense of OneNESS; or exactly alike. We both could be right.

I want to try to remember that our Father in heaven is not exclusive in his love to any of us. We are responsible to obey what He commands us to do. And we are only subject to condemnation according to the light He gives to each one of us. You cannot judge me by what God has revealed to you. I cannot judge you by what God has revealed to me. We can only judge ourselves.


CTR

onthestreet said...

9/21/2006 10:25 PM

ADMIN: I think you posted irrelevant crap on my post (from RATT).

weblog administrator said...

Sorry Street, I neither add nor detract from your posts. Any crap contained therein is strictly your own.

Weblog Admin

muggsey said...

webb adm.

I wasn't aware that ots posted anything else.

Anonymous said...

mugs-
Anyone who has to slander someone else to prove their point, only proves that their point is pointless.

I am definately NOT INNOCENT.
Escpecially to IITMOC.

But I do have some honest questions out of curiosity about your faith mugs.

Jesus took up His body again on the third day, being ressurected, when He appeared to His disciples, did He have a body? And if so, does He have a body now?
Or does this not even matter? What does it mean to be ressurected?

CTR

Anonymous said...

Well it appears that LE is talking about what to do about YFZ and FLDS now that Warren Jeffs is in jail. Perhaps that is source of rumors about raid. Well it wasn't a raid but a meeting of LE on subject of YFZ. See link on this site for Eldorado Success article.

Also see SLC newspaper article: Deseret News

And KSL-TV

Sheriff Doran was qouted as saying, ""They went over the U.S. attorney's role and what they're going to be doing."

Men In Black said...

I have the East Coast, West Coast prophesy audio cassette of Warren's. He was a bit vague and now slightly incorrect if Texas is to be the FLDS Zion, but he did say the streets of what I assumed was Colorado City would flow red with blood. Something about the Rocky Mountains being Colorado City and people escaping the distructions would head inland for food and shelter. He was vague on the part of how these people would die, who would kill them, but the why I think was that they would be competing for the supplies the faithful had stored up.

I have a gathering I will be attending in Arizona on October 3rd and would be happy to share if anyone is close to that locale.

Men In Black said...

OTS

I thought you were near Phoenix? I am headed to Arizona with 400 of Warren's audio cassettes, maybe you could listen and interpret just in case our conclusions are incorrect.

I'll bet I can find a few guys in dark suits that would like to talk with you.

MIB

muggsey said...

HE had a body. He invited Thomas to place his finger in the prints of the hands and to thrust his (Thomas') hand into the wound in HIS side. HE, however, asked Mary Magdalene not to cling onto HIM at the resurection, for HE had not yet assended to HIS father. HE walked with the two diciples on the Road to Emmaus and broke bread with them when they reached an inn. HE called to the diciples from the shoreline of the Sea of Galilee, giving them instructions to cast the net on the other side of the boaat, where they caught so many fish the boat was in danger of swamping. Simon Peter recognized the LORD and swam to shore there to worship JESUS. JESUS ate with them from the fish the HE, JESUS had prepared on a fire that HE had built on the shoreline. HE was seen bodily by 500 persons as HE assended into heaven from the Mount of Olives.

Yes, JESUS had a resurected body. Was it like the ones we live in today? I don't think so. I believe that IT is a spiritual body, the type that will be given to those who are called away from earth, into heaven at the time the church is called out. At the Rapture.

ATAR_i said...

I don't know mugs. I'm certain he wasn't exactly the same as prior, as it states the disciples didn't recognize him, but it certainly was in 'human form' of some sort, because when he went to the upper room, he pointed to his hands where the nails had been driven through.

So, clearly it was different, but somewhat the same. It's slightly mysterious, and the details are not flushed out in the scriptures - so we can wonder can't we?

muggsey said...

atar_i

I really don't think that it ours to know all there is to know at the present time and in the present age. I do believe that the Bible teaches us that when we are joined with Christ, HE will make all things known to us.

One thing that gives great comfort is that there will be no sorrow in heaven. No sorrow means that even events that would have made us grieve on earth will be made known to us with such clarity that those things, such as the absence of an individual, a friend or family member, from the glory of heaven will not cause grief because we will understnd GOD'S perfect justice.

furnace said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
muggsey said...

I will gladly discuss diferences in interpretation of what is considered "scripture", and that which I believe to be totally uninspired. I will not waiver nor retreat. My LORD saved my soul and all I can do for his sake is to give honor to HIS HOLY NAME. No remark I make is to promote me as an individual nor, hopefully to make others think I am attempting to be a superior being to them. You see, I am a sinner, doomed for a devil's hell until I came to the understanding that GOD has done something for me. Knowing I was an imperfect being and knowing that my very nature would not allow me to ever be good enough to guarantee my salvation, HE provided, in my behalf, and in the behalf of all who will believe and trust HIM a ONCE FOR ALL cleansing by being washed in the BLOOD OF THE LAMB, even HIS only begotten son, JESUS, the CHRIST.

By HIS GRACE (Unconditional Love & Forgivness) I am saved, now and forever. I must tell others of my experience that the LORD may receive the HONOR and GLORY that HE alone deserves.

Anonymous said...

Thanks mugs, and atari, that is interesting.

You see, I believe that our physical bodies will be resurrected, because of the sacrifice of Jesus. Yours, mine, and everyones. That is being resurrected, and what I think part of what you call "saved". Jesus had his same body restored, but it was the eyes of HIS desciples that made them not see HIM as they walked.

More questions.

Is realization of HIS grace (believing and trusting in HIM) not considered work?

Do you exist without a body?
Is there a difference between HIS spiritual body, and HIS bodiless spirit during the three days HE laid in the tomb?

CTR

muggsey said...

Understand please that there are two resurections. The first will be of the righteous dead, and the living righteous who will be "translated", "snatched up" or "raptured" which will occur immediately following the resurection of the righteous dead. They completed their race, why shouldn't they be the first to see the LORD'S face! Thus they and we will ever be with the Lord. This is the first resurection.

At the end of the millenial reign, on earth, of Jesus Christ (this fulfills the promise that God made to Abraham and David concerning a righteous people, of their own flesh and blood and a King on the throne as a direct descendent of David.) The only people who can receive the blessings of this promise are the Israelites, direct descendents of Abraham. The King, Jesus is a direct descendent of David through the patronage of God and his earthly mother, Mary, of the house and lineage of David.

Following the millenial reign, a period of 1000 years immediately following the Great Tribulation. Jesus is King of the Earth. At the end of this 1000 year period another resurection will occur. In this resurection will be the souls of all, who have lived on earth, for all time who neither followed GOD'S free GRACE nor the law within the parameters of absolute perfection, in other words, absolute obedience to the law of Moses and Old Testament Laws regarding sacrifice.
All other peoples who ever lived on earth, bar none will be resurected in this resurection. Why? To face the judgement of a just God who will banish them all into the devil's hell because they did not believe nor trust HIS GRACE.

Only those who have trusted in GOD, who have performed works not to honor themselves but to honor GOD will be among the elect who will remain in GOD'S PRESENCE for erternity.

Is this justice? I don't see how a valid argument can be made otherwise. GOD made himself known to Adam, to the patriarchs to Noah, to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Joshua & Caleb, through Ruth, the Moabitess, great grandmother of King David, through the lives of the various righteous Kings, Priests and Prophets ending with John the Baptist, the last and greatest of the prophets.

Finally, GOD, in the human form of JESUS came to earth, lived a perfect, sin free life, and willingly laid down that perfect life as THE ONLY NECESSARY PAYMENT for SIN, all sin, past present and future. "All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned everyone to his own way, but the LORD hath laid upon HIM the iniquity of us ALL." That quotation from Isaiah is pretty inclusive.

GOD supplies the grace (his love and favor toward us, even though we do nothing to deserve it), we by our faith (the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.) Hebrews 11:1 Faith is acceptance of the GRACE that GOD has offered in our behalf. The choice is not forced upon us. We have the free will to accept the plan of salvation offered through the shed blood of JESUS, (GRACE) or, to reject it. It is our choice.

Once we have accepted HIS GRACE by our FATH HE has promised that we are HIS very own possession, forever, without reservation. How can this be? When JESUS gave of himself on the cross HE did so willingly. HE doesn't force our loyalty, HE expects it. We demonstrate our faith in HIM by being involved in the Good Works of GOD, as they are revealed to us by the Holy Spirit. If we are HIS, we want to honor HIS HOLY NAME. How do we accomplish this? By being attentive to his calling from within our selves. HE is not going to shout at us to do anything. HE provides opportunity, it is then our will to accept or reject the opportunity of service (works) comes into play.

HE will reward our good works that are done not with selfish intent in mind, but only the works that honor HIM. We are not trying to impress anyone with our goodness. Our goodness is representative of our GOD who lives within us as our constant companion.

I don't know how I can make this testimony any more simple.

The simple equation is this: GOD'S GRACE actuated by my faith = good works that honor HIM. HE is pleased and I am rewarded with an inner joy knowing in my heart that GOD has accepted my offering to HIM and is pleased by my good work in HIS behalf. Future, heavenly rewards are not the purpose for these good works. Glory to GOD is! If there are rewards, I'll find out when I stand before him. That is not the reason for serving HIM now. Now I get the joy of knowing that I am in HIM and HE is within me. What amazing GRACE! What unending JOY!

Anonymous said...

mugs-
Your testimony is interesting, but definately not simple. Logic says work=reward. no work=punishment.

My testimony says that our works do not give us the ressurection, (definition: regaining our bodies) Jesus died for to give us that gift. The other gift He died for is the gift of forgiveness (definition: eternal reward). We must do something to gain forgiveness, and that is to repent and obey. He died to give us the opportunity to be forgiven. We did not give this to ourselves.

In Pauls letter to the Ephesians (2:9) he was explaining that you cannot save yourself, no matter how much you work; and so there is no way to boast. Yet faith IS work. Faith is the moving cause of all action. Faith in God is the action of repentance(definition: becoming more godly, more holy; improving)

If you are not repenting, you are doing something you need to repent of.

I agree on the first and second ressurection, but to me ressurection is to regain our bodies. So those who are a part of the second get their bodies back too, if only for a while.

But you still haven't answered my tougher questions about your faith.

Do we exist without a body?
Do we exist between the time of death and the ressurection? Did Jesus?

CTR

muggsey said...

anon.

Go back and read the post again. I stated again and again the reason for good works is to praise GOD, not for our own credit. When we are doing good works we a pleasing GOD. Pleasing GOD is the only goal of doing good works.

This is a pretty simple statement, do you think you can grasp the importance of the statement this time?

Anonymous said...

mugs-
Yes sir, I definately grasp your statement. And I agree. But why/how do we please God, if we are saved no matter what we do? Am I saved if I dont please God? Isn't pleasing God works? Do we get credit if we do nothing?

MY Religion teaches:
Faith without works is dead, for faith and works are the same. Pleasing God IS works.
Without pleasing God, you cannot be a part of the first ressurection. But you can be "saved" to the second ressurection (which is no worse than here, even might be better)because Jesus died to save ALL.

A prophet said:
"The greatest selfishness, is unselfishness"

We do not have to agree. Our different beliefs dont have to make us hate each other. It was these feelings of hatred for these doctrines that killed innocent people in Missouri back in the 1830's. So please, if you want to, move on to the next question, unless you don't have an answer. But I bet you do. Personally.


CTR

Anonymous said...

Muggsey you said: . . . All other peoples who ever lived on earth, bar none will be resurected in this resurection. Why? To face the judgement of a just God who will banish them all into the devil's hell because they did not believe nor trust HIS GRACE.

Only those who have trusted in GOD, who have performed works not to honor themselves but to honor GOD will be among the elect who will remain in GOD'S PRESENCE for erternity.

Is this justice? I don't see how a valid argument can be made otherwise. GOD made himself known to Adam, to the patriarchs to Noah, to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Joshua & Caleb, through Ruth, the Moabitess, great grandmother of King David, through the lives of the various righteous Kings, Priests and Prophets ending with John the Baptist, the last and greatest of the prophets.

Finally, GOD, in the human form of JESUS came to earth, lived a perfect, sin free life, and willingly laid down that perfect life as THE ONLY NECESSARY PAYMENT for SIN, all sin, past present and future. "All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned everyone to his own way, but the LORD hath laid upon HIM the iniquity of us ALL." That quotation from Isaiah is pretty inclusive.


God has made Himself known to some of the people on this Earth. Or stated another way, not everyone on the earth has been or will be born into the Judeo-Christian culture. What about people of other faiths who abide by the teachings of their culture/religion?

Will a just God banish them into hell for eternity? If we're all going to be judged by the same yardstick, why doesn't God make Himself known to everyone? Is this just?

It's so easy to be smug knowing you yourself will be saved because you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior. Do you think you'd have accepted Jesus as easily if you were born into a non-Judeo-Christian culture? And if what you say is true, then hasn't God already damned anyone to whom He has not made or will not make Himself known? Would a just God do this?

And another question? If we're all going to be bodily resurrected, tell me about the cannibal?

Anonymous said...

CTR....
Mormonism is mumble jumble.
Temple endowment mumble jumble.
Celestial Kingdom mumble jumble.
Baptism for the dead mumble jumble.
The only thing remotely not mumble jumble is Jesus Christ, but I am not sure if you know the real Christ. God only knows.

Blood atonement Brigham Young version came from the devil himself and verifies to me this is a false religion.

Muggsy and ATAR_i you have done well, but I think it is time to move on.

Put it in God's hands to lift the blinders off of CTR eyes and heart.

Hey, Street are you bunkered down?

ATAR_i said...

What do you mean move on?

Anonymous said...

I mean move on.

You and Muggsy have told about the Saviors love and free gift of salvation through his blood sacrifice.

Shake the dust off your feet.

ATAR_i said...

Mugsy and I do not post the same sorts of information. We have two distinct styles of communication.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find more than a couple posts in the past 6 months on that issue written by me. Not that I don't believe it - I just can't even remember the last time I posted on that subject.

Which is why your 'move on' post is 'out of the blue' in my book.

muggsey said...

I agree with atar_i. We are usually in agreement, but are addressing different issues and preceptives.

I don't have time to comment on different blogs. I chose this one because it addresses an issue that is on-going right outside my door and I really care about the outcome.

Will I ever convince any FLDS to change to my way of thinking? I sincerely don't know, but can't help but believe that if someone either from FLDS or LDS read one of my posts and question just one of the many tenants of their religion I have given a successful witness. Only when I have a peace that I have done the best I can regarding this issue will I be able to wipe the dust from my feet and shut down as a contributor.

Thank you for your kind remarks concerning the tenacity of my witness.

onthestreet said...

A witness must have both wit and be on his knees: Wit-knees, which is akin to wheaties to make you grow big and strong.

As for tenacity, even criminals and Satan himself have that. It that any measure of correctness?

"If ye offend in even one of my laws, ye offend in the whole".

onthestreet said...

For all of Muky Tar's profuseness in the "free gift of salvation through his blood sacrifice" (9/30/2006 1:17 PM), there is truth. It will in fact SAVE ALL in some degree of glory, except for those spheres that reflect no light. There are twelve, like the twelve years, twelve tribes, and twelve constellations: Three Celestial, three Terrestrial, three Telestial, and three outer planets that dwell in "outer darkness".

But ONLY the Celestial will see God, be administered by Him, and dwell with Him. Many will seem at first satisfied with any degree, but "few there be that find life-eternal". The Celestial is the life or the spirit of the lower realms.

onthestreet said...

It is the highest life and spirit, the essence of all beneath it.

Anonymous said...

aw heck, I thought we were talkin about guns. my bet is that YFZ is packin. sounds like a country song...


YFZ is packin
Feds aint attackin
Mugs, Atar_i and OTS are STILL smackin

and the beat goes on...

ATAR_i said...

Did you not get enough attention as a child 7:39?

Anonymous said...

nah atar_i, i just like to stir the blog soup every now and then.

muggsey said...

Oh weak-nees,
A new pseudonym for the oft lost, wandering & wondering ots. A will-'o-the-wisp who plays at being an intellecutal. A want-to-be scholar of the infamous and mundane works of his own creation. An irresponsable bore whom he worships continually. Self! He is full of himself thus requiring no council from any quarter.

ATAR_i said...

OK - then my nickname for you is 'magic bullet'. BTW I have one - and they work great!

Anonymous said...

as a suppository?

ATAR_i said...

no I'll save the name 'dulcolax' for someone else. How bout we keep that one in reserve for someone else.

ATAR_i said...

I'll include a link to the 'magic bullet' it's like a tiny cuisinart.

http://www.buythebullet.com/

OK - it kinda does look like a large suppository!

muggsey said...

10/3 7:39

yeah, yeah, yeah, yyeeaahh!

onthestreet said...

10/05/2006 2:31 PM

Les, is that a depository in delady, or a substantial deposit indetoilet?

muggsey said...

It's obvious that you do not remember a line from "She Loves Me, Yeah, Yeah, YYEEAAHH." by the Beetles. A British Pop music Group from the early 1960's.

onthestreet said...

No, I do not imbibe in such noise and confusion of mind and soul. I am glad that is obvious to you. This shows that I am manifesting great clarity.

muggsey said...

The truth be known, your lack of recognization more fully demonstrates your lack of knowledge concerning anything outside your little cult. You've been hit on the head by a single snowflake and have determined that the sky is falling.

Anonymous said...

back to the subject,was there ever any definite evidence that the warrenites ever had any wepons of any kind?

A question from Bluebeard.

muggsey said...

Bluebeard:

The local law enforcement agencies state that there are only a few small arms, deer rifles and shotguns at YFZ.

I read one account that the profit's compound in C.C. included a tunnel which contained a number of automatic weapons and some explosive divices. I cannot confirm. I do not know if any of thse supposed weapons have been transported to YFZ.

onthestreet said...

Correct, little (I mean, Les). So much you "cannot confirm", and that you "do not know". Such meekness. As for the snowflake, better to be a snowflake or wallaped by one, than just a plain flake and wallop by one of those.

Knowest thou not, that a single snowflake is full manifestation of a present storm brewing. When you discount such great signs, you discount the workings of God.

muggsey said...

I'r rather confess to my lack of knowledge than to have everyone on this blog know that I was a know-it-all!

onthestreet said...

That is commendable.

Anonymous said...

At least Muggsey admits he does not know it all. What about you, Street? Do you have it in yourself to be so meek and honest?

onthestreet said...

Ahh, I am a nobody.

Anonymous said...

Bluebeard

Regarding weapons, Jim Gober of BATF in 1984 investigated the American S.A.M. 180 Service Rifle issue only. These were reported to of been stored in the "Bishops Warehouse", known as the cave behind Fred Jessops medical clinic. Its behind the metal silo's which block it from view. Washington County Sheriff Campbell searched the cave in the 1980's and did so after a fumbled attempt the day before and found no guns. A search warrant recently also found no guns in the cave.

The original story was Louis Barlow had purchased 100 .22 caliber SAM 180's from federal arms dealer Roger Grahm out of Ogden Utah. Louis did this as an enterprise to create survival kits. He took possession of only half the rifles, the other half were to be drop shipped from a warehouse in either Las Vegas or Los Angeles. The 50 that were never shipped were easily explained or accounted for. The balance came into question as to whether the serial numbers were correct, as tracing these as resold across the country seemed a disconnected pattern. The SAM 180 is the gun of choice for prison guards as it does a rapid fire of about 175 rounds, small caliber, but a huge magazine, no need to reload while being rushed by prisoners.

The BATF investigation terminated after some discussion of these weapons being legal to own as semi automatic. An easy modification could of converted these to fully automatic, but it was never proven that any one had tried. The investigation closed.

Later in 1991/92 the issue of drugs surfaced and 3 names came up, of which Truman and Louis Barlow were named. The witness came forward in the year 2000 asking for imunity from prosecution. Because guns and drugs are a bad combination, some new interest surfaced. The period of 8 to 9 years, exheeded the 6 year statute of limitations in Utah, rendering the info useless.

Reports of a purchase of .308 caliber rifles and other ordinance have circulated, but less was known of these and whether just a rumor has not been determined, as far as I know. Other groups most certainly, but the FLDS, not to my knowledge. Fred Jessop ordered a "gun roudup" several years ago after to many signs were found to be getting shot up, most of these weapons were hunting rifles and pistols, to this question I have some knowledge, but its not a topic to be discussed her in an open forum.

If someone here need the old list of serial numbers to the SAM 180 purchase, either the Utah Attorney General via Jim Hill, replacing Ron Barton, would officially have those numbers or unofficially MIB from this blog who worked with RB on that issue.
AA

Anonymous said...

Thank you AA,thats veary interesting,I dont suppose you know wether the 308's were semiautomatic or civilion hunting rifles? Iheard about the SAM 180's,but that was a long time ago,it seems no one knowes much about the 308's.thanks again for the inforation and references.
Bluebeard.

Anonymous said...

The cave is real and so is the survellience watching it. The explosive material is real and legally stored in the cave.

Fredonia Friend said...

By "explosive material," I assume you mean dynamite that has been there some time, not anything new. Is that what you mean?

onthestreet said...

A dynamic people. Now, THAT's dynamite!

Anonymous said...

Fredonia Friend said...
By "explosive material," I assume you mean dynamite that has been there some time, not anything new. Is that what you mean?

10/15/2006 5:44 PM

Dear Fredonia Friend.
There have been new stories written about the cave and guns and recently about the dynamite this summer.
Google the Trib, Dessert News or Spectrum.
And yes it has dynamite caps stored, legally by a construction company in Hildale. The ATF know about it.

Fredonia Friend said...

Do you think guns are being stored there now?

onthestreet said...

What if they are? Do you think the kiddys have cap-guns or noise-makers? Oh My God help us.

Anonymous said...

Fredonia Friend...No guns are not being stored there. Only some moldy canned food and dynamite caps.

Now guns could be stored somewhere else like in Big Willies Jessop's gun safe. Heard he had quite a collection.

Have you heard that rumor Street?

onthestreet said...

Only from rumor-mongers. But more to the point. One angel can set ten thousand to flight. The hosts of heaven will come down, after the full trial of the faith, and the fate of the wicked is sealed. The guns of men are nothing.