Thursday, July 27, 2006

How to choose a sister wife

Women, if you were to have a sister wife, how would that choice be made? What would be the qualities you would choose.

Everyone answer.

Men, how would you choose a second wife?


desert darling said...

Come on atari, think IF.

TBM said...

The greatest quality a second wife could have for me would be ... non-existence!

I have a wife already, and I can never find words to accurately express my feelings for her. She is God's gift. I neither require nor desire another.

Fredonia Friend said...

Why start a new thread just to get an answer from Atari to the question on another thread?

Administrator - Fundy and Barlow seem to have started a trend with this behavior. Would you please comment on this practice?

Thank you

desert darling said...

so how about you fredonia friend?

Think of something light hearted or serious.

Also, could you make it a little more clear exactly what it is that you protest about the way I formatted string?
You would prefer that I hyjack another string? Isn't that what we all complain about Street, Muggy and Fundy?

I'm not a novice to this blog. Pull in your claws and enjoy.

ATAR_i said...

OK darlin' I'll play

Hey fredonia - I resemble that remark! :)

OK, firstly I'd probably find myself vascilating between jealousy and arousal (being truly honest) at the thought of having someone else.

So, they'd have to be nice looking - but I'd have to be better looking.

They would have to be nice, but slightly bland and uninteresting (because, I'd have to be the favorite).

It would be lovely if they were nurturing, seeing as they'd be correcting my kids (but my kids would have to love me waaaay better).

It would be nice if they had natural respect and boundaries when it came to my children - I wouldn't deal to well if someone was intentionally hurting my children or making them second class to hers.

OK - can you see from these few short paragraphs I would NEVER make a good polygamist - I'm completely unable to not be the alpha wife! Ack - I'm suprised and the agonizing truth of my own personality - but since I'm being honest - it is what it is.

Anonymous said...

ditto to what Atari said, but I would prefer her to be more of a plain Jane, wear the same size as me so we could share clothes,be VERY rich and generous with sharing her money.

Yes, I am a material girl.

red rocks girl said...

you know that is a question I have thought alot about.
I agree with atari on some issues like the nurture part and what not.
but I would feel like I'm not good enough he had to go find himself another wife.
I'm a very jealous person so I'm afraid the love I have for him would die

sad sad sad

Anonymous said...


desert darling said...


I'm alergic to dishes too. How about he does them while us girls go watch a chick-flick.

ATAR_i said...

How do polygamous women get over these constant comparisons. Seriously, if I weren't the alpha wife in a situation like that - I would be so sad.

If things are tough at work, or friends are busy, NO MATTER WHAT - I have that one fellow who is always on my side, looking out for me. If he were looking out for my fellow wife, more than me - I'd be one sad little puppy (clean dishes or no).

Besides - my kids clean the kitchen just fine (I have incredibly hard working children), and I love watching movies with my kids, or my sister (she has a different husband). My sister lives a short walk away, so we, and our children are constantly floating back and forth.

So, I just don't see how they do it. I mean I can see how the alpha wife does it (barely). But how do all the others do it.

Uncle Ratt said...

A polygamist man chooses his wives gauged by the stiffness of his upper lip.

fundy said...

NO, the are all aranged.
An arranged marriage is a marriage that is at some level arranged by someone other than those being married and is usually used to describe a marriage which involves the religious leaders of the married couple to varying degrees:
as it is with most polygamous sects and denominations.

Anonymous said...

"Men, how would you choose a second wife?"

....get rid of the first one

keep sweet eldorado

onthestreet said...

How to choose a sister wife
Women, if you were to have a sister wife, how would that choice be made? What would be the qualities you would choose.
Everyone answer.Men, how would you choose a second wife?

posted by desert darling at 6:41 PM | 12 comments

STREET's Reply: The only required qualities in the FLDS Church is God's will and choice, in placing true saints together. So true sainthood and God's will or choice. Then you've got spiritual unions, and marriage of God, for God is spirit. All other unions are neither spiritual or of God, but sensual and of man and his choice.

The choice is yours. All mankind must choose who they will serve, God or man.

muggsey said...

How would I choose a second wife? I don't know because my first one is still alive. I need a second wife about as much as an eskimo needs a refrigerator to live in an igloo.

I don't need to speculate on how to choose a second wife. If the time came and I needed one I'm sure that God would guide me to the right woman.

If it was his will that I live out my days as a widower, I would live each day to the utmost, being as helpful to my neighbors as possible, reading, studying God's word and gaining wisdom for having done so. Having a mate or not having a mate is not the issue.

I certainly don't need a wife to live a content, fruitful life. I have children and grandchildren whom I love and who love me. I have friends by the score and ability to serve God in my own unique way. So, the question is not so much what I want but what God has in store for me. I'd rather stand aside and let him lead. It may be my wife who is the one widowed. If so, I'll be with my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and ALL of my needs will be fulfilled, for He is in charge and is supplying all my needs now, as he will do in eternity.

ATAR_i said...

Well, Mugsy - how did you choose the first one then?

desert darling said...

Remind me not to invite Street to post on my threads.

And Fundy, how much do you know about how marriages were/are really decided? It only went the way you described in theory. The higher you were up on the totem pole the more freedom of choice the fathers had and the more forgiving the powers-that-be were on do-it-yourselfers.

Muggsy, you crack me up.

ATAR_i said...

Darlin' are you thinking about this seriously then?

If you wouldn't mind me asking a few questions.

What is the main thing driving this?

Not having grown up in polygamy I have all these boundaries, red flags, and whoa nilly's that would make this something I wouldn't even consider. But you don't, and I think you look at it compeltely different.

Is sharing your husband something that causes you to be concerned about jealousy?

Would you have to be the alpha wife?

What would you do if he liked the other wife better?

Do you worry about any of those things?

Anonymous said...

Desert darling,

Speaking of higher up on the totem pole... Two of Warren's ladies were do-it-yourselfers. He had to be married to them because he was fornicating with them. Now, he will cast boys out for much less. Not all boys, as you say, forgiveness is dependent upon the position on the totem pole.

Anonymous said...

atari, thik about it. If your sisters husband died, would you even consider inviting her to be your sister-wife (IF it were O.K. in your religion, and not against the law) now that you know that people do it for other reasons besides sex?

giz2gaz said...

From my filmmaking experience interviewing polygamous women both inside & outside the FLDS, most of the time the girl's father makes a request to the prophet for the husband he's chosen for his daughter. But there were many times that the prophet would summon the girl and tell her who her husband would be. And the marriage could take place right then & there, even though the woman might not even know the man. Men aren't allowed to choose an additional wife, so forget the question of "what qualities would you want her to have?". Warren Jeffs decides if you can have another wife, and who she'll be. That's what got Ross Chatwin kicked out - he'd picked 2 women to be sister wives to Lori without asking Warren.

The first wife is in charge of ruling the other wives and all the children. She can be and often is quite cruel in her treatment of the other wives, and their children too. Her own kids get special treatment and perks, such as more (or all of the) toys, the best clothes, more to eat, etc. The kids can't call their mother "mom", but address all the wives as "aunt" so-and-so or "mother" so-and-so. This is all enforced so that the kids dissociate, because all their love has to go to Warren and not be localized on a mother. Another type of mind control, and horrendously cruel to innocent children. Is it any wonder these people, now in the sixth generation of this abuse, walk around like zombies?

One of the women escapees in the film "BANKING ON HEAVEN" talked about how her father (very high up in the church) had over 60 kids and he never knew her name when he saw her. One time he told her to go home when she was playing in her own front yard. She rarely saw him and was terrified when she did because he repeatedly tried to molest her. Unfortunately, I heard this kind of story over & over from the women. It's a devestating comment of the "wonderful" lifestyle polygamy offers.

One man (who left CC on his own) I interviewed told me, "You think about it. You've got 4 wives and you're in the bedroom having sex with one of them and the other 3 are out in the living room crying. How are you going to feel? That's why I decided not to be a polygamist."

It's frustrating to read the comments of men on this blog who proclaim all is fine & dandy with polygamy. What do the women have to say?

muggsey said...

Does this radical action kill the body, the soul, or both?

desert darling said...

Anon 10:21

It wasn't just any ol' two of warren's wives, it was his FIRST TWO. And the father was not pleased.

desert darling said...


You keep thinking that way and you just might believe it.

I'm not talking about warren and his iron fisted regiem, which I don't happen to believe in. It wasn't always like that in this community.

Laurie Allen made a comment just Saturday that her film wasn't particularly anti polygamy and wasn't ment to be. Of course, I didn't get that feeling from watching it.

What I don't get is how she tried to make her own story a part of the warrenite story. It has no connection to the people she shows, nor does she state that there is no connection, but gives it like the people in her film are a background for her own narated story.
She has a story, and it is hers, but it is not ours.

By the way, Ross wasn't kicked out because he "picked 2 women". That was as handy an excuse as any other at a time just before no excuse was needed to kick men out.
As with any story, there is always another side to it.

Anonymous said...

Wasn't Ross part of the housecleaning that took place about 2 & 1/2 years ago?

desert darling said...


I personally don't like the idea of an alpha wife. I think all people have the right to be treated as people. Each person has their own talents and qualities, it doesn't have to be a competition. It can be cooperation.

I want someone I could respect and who would respect me. I don't want to be the alpha wife and I certainly wouldn't cowtow to her.
If I felt my/our husband was showing favoritism, I would let him know about it. If I didn't think that I could trust him to be fair, I would not be in favor of having another wife join our family.

As far as the jealousy part, I have been raised with the expectation of such a relationship so it would be much easier for me than someone who has not been raised to expect it. Of course, you never know just what you will do till you are there, but anticipating each situation and having some notion of what would be the optimum action or reaction could make the transition easier.

Anonymous said...

Gee giz,
you say you have iterviewed people in the FLDS? And then you puke lies like that second paragrapn? PULEEZE!


You actually believe everything you hear from dissenters, and very little or none at all of those who still believe, AND CALL IT FAIR? BOTH SIDES? PULEEZE!!

10:21 and Desert Darlin you are both uneductated. He never knew them until after they married him.

giz2gaz said...

Anonymous said...
Gee giz,
you say you have iterviewed people in the FLDS? And then you puke lies like that second paragrapn? PULEEZE!

If anyone would be lying, it's the women who speak about their experiences being plural wives in "BANKING ON HEAVEN". I, personally, don't say ANYTHING in the film. What you see is people from Colorado City talking about their personal experiences. It's up to the viewer to decide if these folks are liers.

I spent 3 years researching and filming Colorado City. I believe I'm fairly knowledgable about what goes on there. What are your credentials?

ATAR_i said...

To anon who asked me if my sisters husband died would I take my sister in. Umm, in the guest bedroom - sure, in the master bedroom NEVER.

Yikes, even the thought of it makes me want to hurl (and I love my sister dearly).

Darlin' - perhaps the jealousy gene is nurtured more (with respect to marital relationships) outside CC. I've no idea how to account for the desire to participate in polygamy from the feminine perspective otherwise.

Anonymous said...

My credentials?
A little more than 3 GENERATIONS of researching.

The paragraph you wrote was not paraphrasing anyone else. You wrote it as if it were a general fact.

It is not.

You tout the failures as normal, they are not.

Anonymous said...

If a woman can overcome all jealousy she is happy. Plural marriage is the ultimate test.

If a man can overcome all jealousy he is happy. Sacrificing all things to God and His prophet is the ultimate test.

onthestreet said...

7/31/2006 5:57 PM

Well put, putt putt.

ATAR_i said...

Anon - I'm certain you are right about plural marriage being the ultimate test of your ability to overcome jealousy.

I can imagine being an old lady and having it be something tolerable. But as a young thing - I couldn't do it.

So I wonder, since it's such a huge deal. Under optimal circumstances you still have to deal with that jealousy thing. Under less than optimal circumstances (the girls who are given no choice whatsoever) it must be quite difficult.

I know the leadership (wj) is not considering the women who are taking part in polygamy now.

They need to be given a choice (like you darlin), and it needs to be twofold. When/if they want to be plural, and whom they would like to consider for a family.

Of course - I think a girl should be required to be an adult and have finished HS.

And a man should be able to support another wife/family.

Even under those circumstances I'm not so thrilled with the practice.

Anonymous said...

You have NO CLUE whetber WJ is considering the women who are taking part in polygny.

You ASSUME the girls have no choice.

And about when and how, why do YOU have to be the one to decide?

desert darling said...

anon 1:30

I didn't know them, but I heard it from their father.

desert darling said...

Some girls do have a choice or have had in the past. I seriously doubt that any have now under the current tyrant.
Some choice, do it or go to H---.

I do know of a girl who said no, and it was a very hard emotional ordeal with pressures on both sides of the argument.
When she asked me my oppinion, I told her that if she didn't feel good about it then don't do it. Forever is a long time to hate your spouse.

That same girl later chose to be #5 to a much older man as opposed to the #2 to a younger man that she had rejected.

Anonymous said...

Isn't it interesting that dissenters say bad about something and those that are faithful say good about something, so lets discount all the dissenters and only hear the non-dissenters. By definition alone, a person who gets repulsed becomes a dissenter. As far as not knowing them until after he married them, why was Ivan Neilsen talking over Warren's situation to Uncle Roy and Uncle Roy remarked, "I guess I'd better seal Warren to the women he's been having sex with"

ATAR_i said...

10:34 - if by "YOU", you mean women, I don't agree that women alone should decide who they marry. I think both people need to agree to marry each other.

I don't think a man should feel obligated to take on another wife because he is told to, as much as I don't think a woman should marry a man because she's told to.

I think the pressure/force to do so is a HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION. This is a culture within a culture - and I believe anyone forced or coerced to marry someone they don't want to is having their human rights violated.

muggsey said...

Is ots not trying to disguise himself as a single cylinder Briggs & Stratton enigine. What's with the putt, putt, putt? Are you at idle or just passing gas?

onthestreet said...

LOL: Actually, runnin on all fours, and more to the point on all two's, upright. Idleness is the devil's workshop, and I didn't say "splat, splat", I said "putt putt".

In Kolven, the putt is to put one's own being into the grave willingly, to bury the past, and carry one faithful to the next phase. The ball is the soul, which is subject to many hazzards on the fairway of life. The Tee is Tiferet, the source of our being at every stage, and 18-holes is the running and returning of the angels, the front 9 and the back 9.

Bogey is Boogie, or Satan.
Par is man, and his capacity.
Birdie is the capacity of angels.
Eagle is the ability of the Holy Spirit.
Hole-In-One is the redemption of Christ.

onthestreet said...

As far as not knowing them until after he married them, why was Ivan Neilsen talking over Warren's situation to Uncle Roy and Uncle Roy remarked, "I guess I'd better seal Warren to the women he's been having sex with" 8/01/2006 5:32 PM

STREET's Reply: Hearsay of Hearsays. I'm sure Ivan told you that very thing, in his senile and confused state.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous, at 7/31/2006 5:57 PM said:

If a woman can overcome all jealousy she is happy. Plural marriage is the ultimate test.

If a man can overcome all jealousy he is happy. Sacrificing all things to God and His prophet is the ultimate test.

1)What "jealousy" does a man have to overcome??? He's the king stud in the family. Who is his rival? Is he jealous of the man next door with more wives? With younger wives? I don't understand a man's jealousy in this equation.

2) The entire thing you said sounds like brainwashing to me.

The ultimate test????

I think what you said is the epitome of the whole control factor of this cult.

These people are being led around by a ring in their noses and like puppets controlled by an evil prophet.

Anonymous said...

She'd have to be hotter than the first one.

furnace said...

Ivan to this day is of very sound mind; he is NOT senile. I have met him in person and stayed at his house for a week. He was in a position to know a few things--I'm not sure it was was patriarch or bishop, but either way, he is still very sane and shows no sign of mental instability.

fttc said...


I don't know if Ivan did tell Anon the statement in question. I have met Ivan and visited with him. As I don't believe he is on this blog I have to say something in his defense. He may and probably does have many faults but senility and confusion are not numbered among them.

onthestreet said...

Senility of spirit is often hidden from the ignorant, being of dark minds.

desert darling said...

Ivan is a very inteligent person and a great coversationalist.

ATAR_i said...

Clearly Uncle Ivan is mentally sound, and NOT confused per the multiple individuals who bear witness to his state.

Uncle Ivan knew about warrens schtuping women before warren was married.

So Uncle Ivan is now thought to be insane.

Yeah - sounds like typical FLDS smear campaign.

He's not only branded an apostate, but a mentally insane, unstable, confused one at that.

Boy - I bet Ivan has some information that they don't want him sharing!

onthestreet said...

desert darling said...
Ivan is a very inteligent person and a great coversationalist.
8/06/2006 6:40 PM

STREET's Reply: So is Satan, and clearly a multitute of Billions bear witness to it. Not a true criteria for determining truth, is it?

Oh Say What Is Truth, tis the priceless gem...

Anonymous said...

i would choose a woman with terminal cancer, to ensure a brief relationship with MY husband

onthestreet said...

Well, if your husband is that unloving, that is a testimony of the abuse within monogamy, and in some men's polygamy. However, THOUSANDS of women have chosen the Prophet Warren and his love, for good cause. No, he is not Christ, but he is His brother, Christ-like, and His personal friend.

All other men may be wimps, when it comes to the Prophet. Certainly, I Am, but I look unto the Lord which giveth me strength. Therefore I will look unto the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me. Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy, when I fall.

Then the wimp may glory in the Lord, and proclaim: “Ye, I am quite stwong”. After each day of creation, God proclaimed it “good”. Then after I partake of the Living Waters, I proclaim it “Bewwy Good”, and “the foist shall be last, and the last shall be foist”.

I speak as a child, and when I am all gwowd up, I shall put away childish things (I Cor. 13:11). Until then, I am diddly-squat, and ye are not.

I was in my temporary bedroom, laying on my bed today, eating chile and gazing with admiration at the life-photos of the Prophet Warren and the Prophet Rulon, his father, on my wall. Says I: “Ahah, you guys want some beans”? Well, they just stood there smiling at me, and that was good enough for now. I just didn’t want to appear selfish, eating in front of them.

ATAR_i said...

For her sake I probably wouldn't, but I understand the bottom line.

onthestreet said...

Tarry, wake up. Wake up, honey. You were talking in your sleep.

muggsey said...

"Running on all fours?" Confirmation that you are some kind of beast, not human. We are bi-peds. We walk upright on two feet. We have hands that enable us to create things that no beast can comprehend, let along repeat the task.

Re-read the post above. I said putt, putt. Nowhere did I say splat splat.

Once again your convoluted thinking patterns have caught you in an untruth. This one may be of little consequence, but it is in the same vein as those which are an abomination.

Anonymous said...

Now I have seen everything!

onthestreet said...

Hey Mug, who's post you replying to? Who knows, maybe he too is walking in his sleep.

onthestreet said...

Look at his heading: "The blog of a married homosexual man who believes completely in the tenets of the LDS faith".

There's the BIG LIE from the gitgo. He is an unbeliever, in an unbelieving church. This is why he is considered faithful, "believing completely in the tenets of the LDS faith". No doubt.

onthestreet said...

Sorry, that was in reply to: 8/09/2006 10:13 PM

Anonymous said...

So Street you eat beans with your chili.

You wouldn't make it in Texas.

desert darling said...

Well, Tex, I do like the Pace brand of picanti sauce, but I don't think anyone should "get a rope" if some less desirable brand shows up at the fire side.

ATAR_i said...

I prefer chipotle