Thursday, August 25, 2005

What is in future plans of FLDS with Warren Gone?

Now that Warren Jeffs is on the fly to avoid prosecution for having broken the law in Arizona, and new sealed indictments have been issued, what will the LDS cooperativly undertake to regain their quiet, "normal?" lifestyle. It is only a matter of time before Jeffs is captured or is involved in some kind of effort to use force in order to bring his agenda about.

Construction of the new FLDS temple and various service structures is proceeding at a very quick pace. Do you think Jeffs will show up for the dedication?


Anonymous said...

You are asking what the FLDS are going to do cooperatively? Or the LDS? As for the LDS, especially outside of Utah and Arizona, life has continued in it's normal everyday way. Sometimes an article will appear in the paper or in other media, and LDS are briefly engaged with amusement or wonder that such things really go on in 'Zion'. So, life goes on in it's normal unpredictable fashion and most people are busy just living their individual daily family crisis. Doing the best that they can to make decisions in the present that will prove to have been good choices in the afterlife.

mugwump said...

Pardon my obvious mistake.

This question is addressed to FLDS who specifically have looked to WJ as prophet. I too expect ots to jump on to this question with his mumbo-jumbo. This is addressed to the ones who currently live in Hildale-Colorado City and have received the greatest impact by this series of events?

Anonymous said...

you would hope that they would move into mainstream americana. More likely some one else is already moving in to take over in the power vacuum. If warren stays out of the USA I don't think he can be extridited back. The charges not being that serious.
That's granting he is smart enough to stay out of country. If he stays at the compounds in British Columbia where he probably is, he can run things somewhat from there. Seeings they were broadcasting sunday services to there, they can broadcast back here. FLDS are alot like the Mafia a very closed society. May not change anytime soon.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 5:47 -

I assumed from reading the Share the Light blog that Warren wouldn't be welcome in Bountiful. Aren't the people there looking to Winston for leadership?

onthestreet said...

Okay fokeseys, here's some more scripture, what you like to call "Mumbo-Jumbo":

Yes, Americans, LDS, expelled Fundies, and all other classes of people caught in their undies, will continue to marry and giving in marriage, until the end comes.

Mt. 24:37: But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed [is] that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Anonymous said...

Na, nuh, na-na, na-na-na, nuh-na, Repeat previous nonsense
Ends up with a pervocative statement, get a job. Some of that pinky-panky music refered to earlier on this web-site,

Reminds of children teasing each other.

But, if we consider ots a child, it's his normal way of communicating.

Faithful Woman said...

The FLDS here aren't ready to let warren go yet. We've been getting mild vandalisum.

Anonymous said...

Mrs. Faithful Woman
What kind of mild vandalism?

Anonymous said...

You know, whoever compared the warrenites to the mafia really hit the nail on the head. It never really occured to me before, but it really is that way:
Like the mafia, regardless of WHERE the leader is (in hiding, in another country, in jail) he still retains power, issues orders and controls the group with absolute, unquestioned authority.
Like the mafia, the leader has his "hit" men (bishops, counselors, the "missionaries" he's been training via his tapes and secret meetings) who will enforce his law even though he is inaccessible and not around.
I've been trying to figure out a way to get people to understand that no matter what they do to warren or threaten or imprison, he will still retain the stranglehold on the people. Nobody can seem to get the drift that even though he's not there physically, his tentacles still ensnare the poor suckers who still believe.

Faithful Woman said...

mild vandalisum

Some kids picked the tall grass clumps out of that tire lined ravine across the road from our house. They lined them up across the road and dug a little line about two inches deep. Also scratched "Ross is" with the same two inch deep lines, with a shovel maybe. They were probably interupted so they didn't finish it.

I had our children toss the grasses off of the road.

A day or two later they threw the grass clumps over the fenced area onto our lawn.

Nothing major, yet. Hope it doesn't get that much.

onthestreet said...

You just as well report every time you flush your toilet. Now, THAT is vandalism.

ATAR_i said...

Vandalism is...what it is. Vandalism, like you had was on a smaller scale, but reminds me of stealing on a smaller scale (like candy).

I mean stealing is stealing (God doesn't pro-rate his anger based on the cost of the object stolen), and vandalism is vandalism - wether you throw clods of dirt or you torch a house.

When kids do it - they usually need a stern authority figure to get them in trouble, and punish them. I hope that happened in your case. The whole idea behind punishment it to be a deterrent. Keep kids from behaving the same way again, and as an adult.

If there is selective enforcement of vandalism, and a rationalization of it 'because it's not so bad', or 'they deserve it', or laziness, that would be a sad day - and a day that gave kids an idea that sometimes destroying the property of others was ok. But only certain others.

Anonymous said...

Warren has affected alot more people than just down there. He has literally split our community in two. (Bountiful, BC)

onthestreet said...


Matthew 10:34-42:
Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth: it is not peace I have come to bring, but a sword. For I have come to set son against father, daughter against mother, daughter–in–law against mother–in–law; a person’s enemies will be the members of his own household. No one who prefers father or mother to me is worthy of me. No one who prefers son or daughter to me is worthy of me.

Anyone who does not take his cross and follow in my footsteps is not worthy of me. Anyone who finds his life will lose it; anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it. Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me; and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. Anyone who welcomes a prophet because he is a prophet will have a prophet’s reward; and anyone who welcomes an upright person because he is upright will have the reward of an upright person.

ATAR_i said...

We're talking here about kids destroying property - are parents going to allow their kids to act in that manner?

I hope parents don't encourage their children to hurt other children by teasing and cruelty either.

I realize warren is the man in charge - but this whole mess is even bigger than him. The decisions that others made - and were allowed to make paved the way for his special brand of 'leadership'.

onthestreet said...

Yes, a very special Prophet. The doings of others are their own. Man will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgressions. "We teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves (for good, or for evil).

Faithful Woman said...

That is right Street. You can't ride into heaven on warren't coat tails.

onthestreet said...

There you go. Every tub must stand on its own bottom. Yet, it is a system of introduction, after you are built on a good foudation.

onthestreet said...

...or better yet, a foundation. That would even be better, yes?

mugwump said...


ots could always take his own personal broom!

onthestreet said...

lol: Ahh yes, vroom with jet assist! That's one's as fast as the speed of light, itself being composed of pure light.

mugwump said...

or compressed hot air.

onthestreet said...

Yes, very explosive!

mugwump said...

A mixture of methane and hydrogen sulfide. Stand back folks, if the explosion doesn't get you then the bi-product of the explosion, sulphur dioxide, will poison you.

Anonymous said...

OnTheStreet and Mugwump are both excellent sources of methane.

Anonymous said...

You hear about the plig terrorist?

He tried to make a fertilizer bomb, but the fuse kept going out when it got to the manure.

ATAR_i said...

: )

Anonymous said...

I have a question, are the people in CC considered righteous, or is that city were you have to go to be punished, and are the people there going to move to TX or do you have to get permission? just wondering?

onthestreet said...

There are degrees of righteousness, and of glory. Some stay, some move on. It is by invitation only.

mugwump said...

in your wildest dreams.

onthestreet said...

Yes, I dream of the righteousness and glory of you all.

mugwump said...

You're sure right about that, it is a righteousness and glory that will never be yours unless you repent of being WJ's confused voice on earth, confess that you are a sinner, ask the Lord, Jesus Christ for forgivness and believe that His is the power to save.

onthestreet said...

That is what you've got to do, and it must be through a prophet, for your Redeemer said it himself (referring to watchmen in each generation), and Paul said: "How can ye hear without a prophet".

Were either one of them a liar? I can identify a true prophet. Can you do the same? Yes, or No. Can you? Be honest. "You CANNOT hear without a prophet". Who is your prophet, God's presence to day upon the earth?

Either you are linked, or you are a law unto yourself. Hense, what kind of perverted law would that be.

onthestreet said...

Hence, I dream that you too may come to righteousness and glory.

mugwump said...

Nay, not through any man, only through The Only Begotten Son of God.

onthestreet said...

No Chief Executive will allow you to barge right in without intermediaries. They are they who are unwelcomed guests at the Wedding Feast, and are cast out.
God will honor his anointed, as he honors God. Without that unbroken chain linking father to son, back to Christ and to Adam, you have no circuit, no light.

onthestreet said...

Glory pertains to great hosts of prophets and angels, not just one unmarried, denuded, unsupported, lover of all things, including filth and open rebellion, one that you call "Christ".

mugwump said...

That my friend is blasphemy. To accuse the Only Begotten Son of God in any other tone except praise, thanksgiving or asking Him to forgive of your own sin is bringing ridicule on Christ's shed blood and will not be forgiven.

My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness.

I do not have to give an accounting to you ots. My actions are in total agreement with my love of and recognition of Jesus as my one and only savior.

Any of you who are still reading this thread please read ots' statement regarding "Christ." This one statement of his perfectly demonstrates that the one to whom he looks for salvation is the devil himself.

It looks as if he'll get his wish, along with a burning shower of brimstone. He condemns himself, and hell is his destination.

onthestreet said...

9/15/2005 12:29 PM:

Ohh, Muggy, your poor blasphemous soul. Like I said: "Glory pertains to great hosts of prophets and angels, not just one unmarried, denuded, unsupported, lover of all things, including filth and open rebellion, one that you call
"Christ". YOU ARE THE ONE CALLING HIM THAT, by suggesting that He is unmarried, denuded of the seed that He actually bore, unsupported of undershepherds and watchmen for every generation to represent Him, that He himself spoke of. Then to suggest that He loves men who rape their wives in the name of luv and marage, and other filthy things, YOU DOUBLE BLASPHEME YOUR LORD. As for any hope that you speak of, Jesus Himself said it best (Matthew 7):

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

mugwump said...

It is not I who belittle Christ, it is you. I'll bet you didn't follow my study directions. Goodbye queenie, for this time. Get real.

onthestreet said...

Who are you to give directions? Where is there one solitary soul upon the earth who should follow one so MUGGY. You violate your Lord again. He said: "FOLLOW ME"

mugwump said...

I don't ask for a following. I simply state the facts and leave it to the reader to decide for themselves. I don't need to establish a dynasty, "this world is not my home, I'm just passing through."

onthestreet said...

You sure are (just passing through). Well put. The saints with their Lord will rule with him for a thousand years, and turn the earth into a terrestrial heaven, and then a celestial star, and dwell upon their creations forever and ever. Others are "Just passing through", transcient like.

mugwump said...

MY LORD will reign on this earth, along with HIS saints, and then in Heaven for all eternity.

Get the order of things in line.

onthestreet said...

There you go, twisting truth again. The Order is first Heaven, then Earth. "God created the Heavens, and then the earth", and ruled first in the Heavens, and then on the earth. Now that you have tried to convince everyone that God does NOT rule in heaven until He first rules on the earth sometime in the future, they can now see how loony you really are, bud.

To Those Who Find Fault With God:
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth....(John 3:16 KJV) Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first ...

Absolute Sovereign God
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1 KJV) ...

YOU get the order straight, my child. You are completely out of it.

onthestreet said...

Remember, your're just a transcient, "just passing through", like to said.

onthestreet said... YOU said.

mugwump said...


the second paragraph of your 3:14 post???? I couldn't find your quote in John 3:16; 1 John 3:16; 2 John has only one chapter; 3 John also has only one chapter. So, it apears that your source is in error, unless you found a new John 3:16 that no one else has yet discovered.

The only John 3:16 I found in the KJV or any other version at my immediate disposal said anything different, with the exception of a few words that had been modernized eg. "believeth"(KJV) = believes in most modern translations.

Just for reference I quote the KJV for your comparison:

John 3:16 KJV
For God so loved the world, that He gave His Only Begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Your equating God with Adam, Michael is equating God with:
Adam - the first man - lived to be 930 years old and died. If Adam was God why did he die? God is eternal. Obviously Adam was not.

Michael - Several references

Numbers 13:13
1 Chron. 5:13-14
1 Chron. 6:40
1 Chron. 7:3
1 Chron. 27:18
1 Chron. 8:16
1 Chron. 12:20
2 Chron. 21:2
Ezra 8:8
Dan. 10:13,21; 12:1

Michael, Archangel who served as guardian of the Nation of Israel 12:7; Jude 9

Name found in extra-biblical literature from the interestamental period (silent 400 years between Malachi & the Birth of Jesus Christ.)

To which Michael do you refer?

I am so thankful to you for recognizing that I will not have to dwell on this planet into eternity. I go into a house, not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

The invitation for you to gain that same assurance is to read John 3:16, believe, repent, receive His Love. Trust God's grace to save you. You can not get there on your own volition.

onthestreet said...

Do you not know the scripture of the Saints of God turning the earth into a paradise, and then a heavenly star, and the earth being God's footstool to exalt men like unto their Father, from exaltation to exaltation, transforming planets into stars, stars into star-groups, and groups into galaxies and universes? Where is your scripture.

Your hopes are pinned to a cloud. Ours are planted firmly on a solid foundation, for without that the winds will blow, and your house will not stand.

onthestreet said...

That was in reply to this:

"I am so thankful to you for recognizing that I will not have to dwell on this planet into eternity. I go into a house, not made with hands, eternal in the heavens".

mugwump said...

I might add "Where the Supreme Architect of the Universe resides" but, that last phrase is from another source.

No, I have not read your book of 'fairy' tales.

You still havent identified which Michael your reference is to. Nor have you acknowledged that Adam died, still a man at age 930.

Neither have you corrected your mis-quote of John 3:16, or even acknowledged your error.

onthestreet said...

You're right about that web-paste. The works of others aren't always very accurate, let alone our own. But you get the point about Heaven coming before Earth, yes? It's right in the scripture itself.

That "book of fairy tails", as you called it, is the Holy Bible. See how you tread upon it?

The Michael I'm referring to is the one and only. All other
"michaels" are his name-sake. I admit, for many God is hard to identify. Did not God guard Israel? Everyone knows that. And you say: "Michael the Archangel served as guardian of Israel". See, He is God.

The Scripture says that "Adam died", in fulfillment of the decree of God that "thou shalt surely die. But how? Christ also died, yet lives, and didn't even lay in a grave. Many beings are translated, yet they shall eventually "die", though as the twinkling of an eye. Christ was a man, yes? Yet a God, yes? Same with all three, for they are one.

You ask: "If Adam was God why did he die? God is eternal." Now Mug, that is a valid question, and a good one. He did not die unto death, but unto life, being eternal. Again, Christ also died, did he not, and is God, is he not. The same for all three, for they are one. You just as well ask: "If Christ was God, why did he die. God is eternal". So you're suggesting that anyone who is eternal cannot die, yet Christ being eternal died. See your error? Hey, you're learning.

mugwump said...

at least spell "tales" right.

A tail is an appendage.

A tale is a legend or story.

Adam in no place in the Bible became one with God. He was creation not creator. You are confusing heavenly things with earthly things. Of course "Heaven" existed prior to the creaton of earth. The account in Genesis is pretty firm in making that case clear.

that same book, Genesis, gave the desendents of Adam. The only way, as far as God is concerned, that Adam still dwells is through Seth. We have no evidence that Able had any descendents. Cain had descendents but there is no proof that any survived the flood. Oh i know your myth concerning Ham's wife. I don't find proof that that myth was formed upon any truth.

You still can't understand that God is one person with three distinctive purposes. Each person of the God-head is given a name: God, the father; God the Word, Jesus, Savior of the World, The Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. (See John 3:16 AGAIN) and the ever present Holy Spirit (Comforter). Only in God's sacrifice of Himself, in the person of His Only Begotten Son, Jesus, born of the virgin Mary, could a "Perfect" sacriffice for sin be made. Animal sacriffices was no longer required. They were an example of God's Perfect Scrifice. Only the best of the best was considered of great enough value to be considered an appropriate sacriffice. At the passover, the lamb was to have been taken into the family home as a pet for three days before it could be sacrifficed. This was God's teaching so that the members of that household would understand the suffering associated with giving one's greatest treasure to cover sin. Even to remind the residents of that house, following the cutting of the lamb's throat it's blood was to be sprinkled upon the door way as a reminder of the lamb that the family had come to love as a part of the household.

Therefore, God send God to the world to die for man's (Adam's) sin. Only the carnate form of God, Jesus, ever experienced death, and He did so to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Upon His (Jesus') resurection, victory over death and His assention back to heaven did the Holy Spirit, (the third person of the Godhead) make itself known to man on the day of Pentecost.

Christ's physical body was taken from the cross, wrapped in cloths and covered with spices on the day of the crucifixion. The Jewish day begins at sundown. The sabbath began at sundown. The completion of preparation of Jesus body was the reason why the Marys returned to the tomb on the First day of the Week. The preceeding day had been a sabbath and therefore they were prevented from performing such tasks.

You reduce the power of God to that of your own power. You fail to acknowledge that He created it all. He created every living thing in existence upon the earth. He created to sun, moon stars and the furtherest galaxy. He created the mountains, hills, valleys, rivers, rocks, earth and everything was created by Him. John 1 names the creator with The Word of God. John introduces the fact that Jesus IS the Word of God, the facilitator of creation. It is infantile to presume that God, could not manifest himself in various ways. That does not mean that there are multiple gods, It only emphasizes the fact that HE IS GOD, I AM.

God named himself I AM to Moses.

Jesus named himself in this and in many other passages: "I AM the Way, the TRUTH, the LIFE, no man commeth to the Father but by me.

There is no known utterance of the Holy Spirit, but He too is I AM.

Three persons, one GOD. I AM.

onthestreet said...

Okay, Jesus referred to "The Father". Your claim that the Trinity is "one person with three purposes", as you put it, again calls your Lord a Liar. Shame on you. There is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, three persons. Or else, why does a man refer to his "Father which art in Heaven", and on the Cross He cried: "Father,
forgive them, for they know not what they do".

So you claim he was just babbling to himself? Your rambling fantasies are designed to confuse the hell out of everyone. You are one mixed up kid.

onthestreet said...

As for Adam, I will add this: You will notice the elements that form his name: Alef, Dalet, Alef, and Mem:

Alef is the Altar of Incense, the incense of acceptance, and joins mercy with judgement just above the Holy Sanctuary. That places him as a heavenly being.

Dalet links Binah and Tiferet, which are Hebrew for Understanding and Truth. These are also in the heavenly realm.

Mem is below the Holy Sanctuary (we're not talking the Holy of Holies here, but the Holy). That is Father Michael, the third member,coming down from His throne and entering Paradise Eden as the first. So this is God.

mugwump said...

so Jesus is a fraud? He wasn't present at creation? God wasn't His father?

Such a fount of wisdom and knowledge.

Bye street. by your own twistic belief you have selected your place of eternal abode.

I shake you off my feet as the dust from the feet of the diciples were told to do upon leaving a city where the "Good News" (Gospel) was presented to the people and they rejected it.

onthestreet said...

So, you're assuming to be a prophet, sent out to preach, but by whom? THE DISCIPLES were sent out 2,000 years ago. You falsely presume to be one of them. Since you preach many falsehoods, which has been proven by the very Word of the Lord, you were only sent by you own malignant ego, and supported by your father, the Devil, for he is the father of all lies, yours included.

In shaking that dust, it just blows back in your face, like peeing in the wind. The wicked shall reap their own corruption.

onthestreet said...

Like I said: Elohim is the Emanator of all things, Yehovah the Creator, Michael the Former of all life form, and Ratziel the Maker.

It is right in your own Bible, kid, God giving Adam full dominion over all life form: Thus the Former of all things.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth". (Gen. 1:26)