Monday, July 11, 2005

Colorado City Men Arrested

Breaking News from the ChildBrides.org web site

MEDIA RELEASE

Mohave County Sheriff's Office

+++ SPECIAL +++ SPECIAL +++

On Thursday, July 7, 2005, the following individuals were indicted by a Mohave County Grand Jury for the listed offenses.

* David Romaine Bateman, 48 years of age, "Sexual Conduct with a Minor," and "Conspiracy to Commit Sexual Conduct with a Minor", both class 6 felonies;

* Rodney Hans Holm, 38 years of age, 3 counts of "Sexual Conduct with a Minor", all class 6 felonies;

* Donald Robert Barlow, 48 years of age, "Sexual Conduct with a Minor" and "Conspiracy to Commit Sexual Conduct with a Minor", both class 6 felonies;

* Vergel Bryce Jessop, 45 years of age, "Sexual Conduct with a Minor" and "Conspiracy to Commit Sexual Conduct with a Minor", both class 6 felonies;

* Terry Darger Barlow, 23 years of age, "Sexual Conduct with a Minor", and "Conspiracy to Commit Sexual Conduct with a Minor", both class 6 felonies.

Friday, July 8, 2005, a team of Mohave County Sheriff's deputies and a Mohave County Attorney Investigator responded to Colorado City to attempt to apprehend those charged in the indictments. Arrested that afternoon was David Bateman, who was located at his residence in Colorado City and taken into custody and transported to the Mohave County Jail in Kingman without incident. The other four (4) suspects wanted in the indictments surrendered to Sheriff's officials at the Mohave County Jail this morning.

Surrendering along with those who were indicted last Thursday were the following individuals who were indicted several weeks ago by a Mohave County Grand Jury:

* Dale Evans Barlow, 47 years of age, "Sexual Conduct with a Minor", "Conspiracy to Commit Sexual Conduct with a Minor" both class 6 felonies, and "Conspiracy to Commit Child Abuse", a class 3 felony.

* Randolph Joseph Barlow, 32 years of age, 2 counts of "Sexual Assault" a class 2 felony, "Sexual Conduct with a Minor" a class 6 felony;

* Kelly Fischer, 38 years of age, "Sexual Conduct with a Minor" and "Conspiracy to Commit Sexual Conduct with a Minor", both class 6 felonies.

All who surrendered were booked in the Mohave County Jail and posted bond.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

WARRANT ARREST – COLORADO CITY (ARIZONA STRIP)

A team of Mohave County Sheriff’s deputies arrested David Romaine Bateman early Friday (7/8) afternoon at his home in Colorado City. Bateman was wanted for sexual conduct with a minor and conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor, class 6 felonies. Bateman, age 48, was arrested for the offenses after a grand jury indicted him Thursday. According to the Mohave County Attorney’s office the charges stem from sexual conduct with a minor from an unlawful unrecognized marriage. Bateman was transported to the Mohave County Jail in Kingman.

co.mohave.az.us
Originally published July 11, 2005

123 comments:

Anonymous said...

Sounds like a job for the "Turkey Baster Defense"!

icelightn said...

The news is all over town that Davy Bateman was one of the fish netted in Arizona's "little" pedophilia raid on us last Friday. And the big news today is that the rest of these men were probably told by Warren to turn themselves in. Now why didn't their leader bring them in himself?
One thing is certain, Arizona is making it really clear that they will no longer tolerate older men having sex with children in the name of religion. this initial sweep specifically targeted pedophiles and had NOTHING to do with picking up polygamists, nor were they attacking our religious beliefs, except for those beliefs held by the pedophiliacs that still live among us.

Anonymous said...

Y'all better take a good look at what Arizona is currently doing to you when adults have sex with children under the guise of religion. Down here in Texas we also take a pretty dim veiw of that sort of activity and we will respond like-wise.

Anonymous said...

Arrest Warren.. those men are only listening to him.

Faithful Woman said...

So did warren tell them to turn themselfs in? Or are they defying him by doing that, trying to not get in any more trouble than they are already in?

Anonymous said...

And ye, Texans will you arrest your teenagers, who under the law get married with there parents premission or do you only do this with polygamists?

Anonymous said...

And will you arrest your men having sex with teenagers , that are not married or can americans do any thing they want except live polygamy?

Anonymous said...

poor picked on pligs, I'm sure these laws were made just for you by the devil himself.

Anonymous said...

No Americans can not do anything they want remember the rest of us(gentiles and apostates) were put on earth to be satan tools to test and torment gods only choosen people(warren's followers).

Anonymous said...

icelightn:

Had these men been accused of molesting children in the past and it just wasn't acted on by the CC or Hildale police? What is the history behind your comment "this initial sweep specifically targeted pedophiles"?

LTG

Anonymous said...

Rodney Hans Holm. Is this the same Rod Holm that was convicted of this same offense by the State of Utah and spent time in prison?

Anonymous said...

Yes, that would be the same Rodney Holm, Colorado City/Hildale EX-police officer and convicted child molester. You know the one who is a registered sex offender in Utah, just might get to be cross deputized as a convicted sex offender in Arizona to. That should make his mothers proud of him. CHILD MOLESTER, CHILD MOSESTER, CHILD MOLESTER.

Anonymous said...

I just wonder who is the lawyer defending these men. Is that arrogant Rod Parker going to do it. Does he stll defend Warren and his peons. This may get intresting.

Who will pay for there defence? You and me and the UEP.

fttc said...

Anon 11:59

Actually it will make his mothers proud of him. They all follow warren and will only see this as Rod being persucuted for the cause of the prophet. They will rejoice in it.

Anonymous said...

I beleive you. Your mission of the devil. You do not have to talk hard to convince any one of that. And The nice thing is, you will forever be his servant. The rightouse will always be Gods servant. God does controle and manipulate all things to the benifit of the rightouse. They will have wifes and kingdoms with out end. You will be found on the left hand of Christ. We Do not fear what men may do. Fear to offend God. Many men have been jailed for this very thing. It is strange to read the history of the church and read the accounts of people who were mobbed and murdered and imprisioned for this very thing. It will not change there testimonie. It will not break there covnants. It will not change what God will do, and it will not make you sevants of the Devil happy. That is impossible. You made your choices. We made ours. Any religion that is not worth dieing for is not worth living for. We have lived for it. You have sold your birth right, for a bit of gold. For a suposed bit of land. For the suposed bit of glory and the power you think you have. And this government will have the fate of Governor Boggs, and The Attorney general in 1953. There history day is over. God is putting you and me through the same test. They did not stop our religion then. They will not now. Joeseph said, you will not succede. Enjoy your glory day, why you got it, Before you drink your cup. There is a universal law, nobody gets away from. What you give out comes back. I am saying adious. I have gotten black tar upon me, from reading your filthy scamming war sheet. I will go and scrub. I will cleanse you from my mind. Lest, I also remain tainted from being associated with you.

fttc said...

The way things are going for warren it would have been a good idea for him to follow Moses plan for the temple so he could take it with him as he moves about the promised land. His hindsight I guess.

Anonymous said...

And Texas, will you abort your teenage pregnancy's like the rest of the nation, that does? Will you take your children and bless there under-age pregnancy's? Will you make a sweeping Hero's revival, and teach your son's and daughter's to wait until they become of age? Will you teach them to stay out of the harlots house? Will you teach them to Live the law of Christ? Or will you teach them to be the servants of lucifer, like Utah and Arizonia does?

fttc said...

Anon 12:32

You won't leave. You're here because this intrigues you. You do not know me, my life, my decisions. Yet you judge me unrighteous. With what judgement ye judge ye shall be judged. I don't blame you though. You know what warren is doing is not right. If you had no doubts you would not be here. He has asked you not to participate if you beleive in him. This blog is an out to releive the stress you are under.

I only got involved here because I saw an opportunity to voice the truth about the conditions of our people. I do so with the hope that some may wake up to the truth.

Anonymous said...

If the principle of plural marriage was really sacred in the eyes of Warren, he would just wait until a girl became 21 years old to marry her. But wait, Warren is a pedofile and oh yeh, if he lets the girls get that old they will start thinking for themselves and just say no. Hmmmm, purity, Warren's actions have not.

Anonymous said...

I thought FLDS weren't supposed to have computers???? Won't Warren's thugs come and find you if you do?

Anonymous said...

Why wait until 21?

Is there something magic about 21?

Or 18?

Or 17?

Or 13?

Anonymous said...

Ya, at twenty one, you can legally drink. At twenty one you can legally go in a bar and be a hooker. before that you have some sensibilitys.

Anonymous said...

At twenty one you can become a Judge that persicutes people for there religion. At twenty one you can become aN abortionist doctor. At twenty one you can be one of the f.B.I. agents that kill people in waco texas. At twenty one you can carry a licence to be one on the crew that Killed the people in ruby ridge. At twenty one you can be the District aTTorney of Utah and Arizonia that lets liers rule, when they know the truth. At twenty one you can become a politician that propmotes lies in the guies of politicks. At twenty one you can run for president and shoot others in other country's. Yes, at twenty one if you pay the government a little money, GIVE YOUR SELF A PRETTY TITLE, you can do any thing you want. Except IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN YOU WILL REFRAIN FROM A LITTLE OF AMERICAN'S FREE RULES AND LIVE THE LAW OF CHRIST.

Anonymous said...

Is that Terry Barlow Darger, who was charged, is he Steve Barlows son?

onthestreet said...

7/12/2005 2:12 PM:
Is that you, Ruth? Yah, the system is very juvenile, is it not, and very criminal. God set up the original in its purity, but it has degraded to its present state. Thus the fall of every empire.

Anonymous said...

Too bad they didnt arrest you too,OntheStreet,But then you are not worthy to be polygamist are you?I am sure Kathleen didnt think so.

icelightn said...

it was Steven Barlow's son

Anonymous said...

forgot one Ruth

at 21 you can become a cop and arrest odl men who have sexual relations with children under the guise of religion

keep sweet eldorado
you too Ruth
stg

Anonymous said...

I recognize the plight many of you, who are still blindly following Warren are facing. When you as a 28 year old man or older, recieve Warren's call to marry an underage girl, you can't refuse or question Warren's "revelation". If you did, you would immediatly lose your existing wives, children, home, business, friends etc....And be cast out of the only society you believed and trusted in all of your life.
On the other hand, if you marry the young girl. It puts you in the same boat as Warren...cros-wise of the law, also known as "being stuck between a rock and a hard spot".
Maybe there is a way out that saves your family and keeps the law off your back as well. Go ahead take the young girl to wife , as Warren's revelation says,and save your family from Warren. JUST DON'T CONSUMATE THE MARRIAGE UNTIL THE YOUNG GIRL IS AT LEAST 18 YEARS OLD.(this will keep your butt out of prison)
If Warren, through his spies, calls you in to find out why your new wife is not conceiving and bearing children in the new and everlasting covenant. Just tell him that you want to be totally positive that the new mother to your children has an extremely strong testimony of him. So the child from the womb is raised in the proper priesthood environment. That excuse could easily work for a couple years.
You will just have to get really creative if you have to spread the excuses out for 5 or 6 years before the girl turns 18.
The key to remember is that each excuse needs to "stroke" Warrens ego...this is a time-tested remedy and it's been proven to work.

Anonymous said...

In a healthy church or community, the above post would not be needed.

Faithful Woman said...

That was the excuse warren himself used on some of his wives. They spent their days praying that they would be good enough to have a baby.
Of course, that wasn't all of them, the cute ones had babies right away. I could name a few of them but there seems to be an adversion to that.

Anonymous said...

Tell me, one who does not know the significants of the age of 21, between the ages of 18, 17, nor 13. What would be the catalyst
that would make you put your foot down and say, "Not my son/daughter!"? Presuming you have any.

Anonymous said...

You make a very good piont anonnymous. In a healthy church or community, none of OUR posts would be needed. Thank you for bringing this into the light.

rumor-has-it said...

If a under 16 year old girl is married, it is a trap. First of all she can't legally drive, second of all she can't hardly get a job, Third, unless the girl has a brain, she just becomes a "baby maker" and doesn't have the education and mind of her own to make her own decisions. Hense why the legal age for "adults" is 18.


I got married at 21 and am very grateful for every day before marriage, although I wanted to get married at 17. Marriage is a big responsiblity, not just something you jump into because you are tired of living with Mom and Dad(like most girls from the creek)

ATAR_i said...

Ruth, NO ONE under the age of 35 can run for president.

But at age 21 you could be in college preparing to go to medical school learning to save lives, and after school go to a foreign country to offer medical care to under priviledged children.

At age 21 you could care for developmentally disabled children every day and let them know they are loved.

At age 21 you could be a child advocate, and make sure that no underage girl is raped by older men.

At age 21 you could be a teacher and teach children the wonders of God's world (that is unless a corrupt man steals all the funds from your school - in that case you work for free because you are so dedicated).

Better be careful who you begin to call unrighteous - what have you done? How strong have you stood? How many lives beyond those of your own kin and clan have you touched and made an impact on? How many lives have you saved?

Or have you buried your talents in the earth?

Anonymous said...

well i know for a fact that kelly would not do any thing with out warren telling him. if that well help you i dont know about any others

Anonymous said...

7;01 oh, you do see some good. That is good. That is encouraging. Like I said, If you save but one soul, How great will be your reward in Heaven: And Let me assure you, God is a God of mericles. If you keep in mind the Teaching of Christ, He took a child in his mitdz. Who is the greatest in the kingdom. Do you ever wonder why? They are incabable of sin. Children have not learned politicks yet. They have not learned how to cheat and lie, like adults. They are tought by adults fables. Talk to a child. They are pure and inacent. Until they are encorperated into boxes. Rules in school, that are tradition. Like teaching them you came from a monkey. And the easter bunny. Holy smoke. I do not even know what the easter bunny is about. A bunny to me, is a furry thing that runs on our desert. God is the creator of all, and Baby's are born. You people complicate your lifes. I am amazed you can even pay for it, with the high inflation rate. Every time you turn around you spend money on a tradition and charge everything and complain cause you have so many bills. I think I would go nuts trying to keep up with your fancy games. I believe God is real. I believe he llistens to me. I believe that money is as sensless as the pebbles on your street, for what realy did you build your house with. I am sure little green papers would look strange. And what fed you. Did you eat your green back. I say, Consider the lillie of the feild, who neighter sows nor labors. read the scripture. Free yourself from the joneses and see if you have any origionality. And according to your storys, you contradict yourself with every word. According to your testimonie, Warren can not be found, and then you say we do nothing with out him telling us too. I say, you have to have a t.v. tell you what to think. You have to have a book tell you came from a germ in the sea. I think it would do you good to get a first grade education. The one you should have learned in kindergarten. The one that should have been tought at your mothers knee. You are a uneque person and so is every one else you meet. Just think of all the unique things you missed because you were so traditionated. Just think if you skipped a holiday or two, you could afford to pay for your divorces. You may even be able to aford your children. And Just think if the government let you keep even a fifth of your check, you could make ends meet. Taxation with out representation. I never represented any of your life style. And if it was not for paying all the tax to suport your life style, I could afford to live. I did not have any representation in this highway robbery tax law. I could have built my house and road a hundred times over, with the same amount of money. I think the ones who want to settle the moon should pay for there voige, and any one who wants to settle the earth should be allowed too.

Anonymous said...

the above post was intended for atari, not 7;01

Anonymous said...

I'm confused. If Terry Barlow Darger is Steven Barlow's son, how did he get the last name 'Darger'?

Anonymous said...

Terry Darger Barlow

onthestreet said...

Anyone tell me the whereabouts of one Don Rarger and Berry Tarlow?

Anonymous said...

Thanks 12:31. I shouldn't stay up reading so late at night.

That Darger Barlow kid looks just like a kid. Does he have more than one young wife, or just one very young wife?

ATAR_i said...

Ruth. I'm not divorced, have never been. I was a virgin on my wedding night and have three children.

I pay all my taxes, but have managed to make some great investments, and currently, we live on acreage with horses and animals.

I don't celebrate the holiday 'holy smoke' I have never heard of it - perhaps that one was made up for the old marjuana dealer in Colorado City.

Children ARE born with a sin nature, and the ability to sin without being taught - it's natural. They don't even have to know anything about politics to lie - it's natural (and that's biblical - remember the 'fall of man'.

I work, at a fairly altruistic job, because I traveled as a young girl to third world countries and wanted to learn a skill to help others, and go back someday. I only work part time - mostly to keep up skills for that day, and for a little extra income.

My children are healthy, happy, love God, get good grades, and I am encouraging them to find the thing that they are meant to do. To find the gifts that God has blessed them with. Wether it's sports, writing, acting, singing, horse whispering, it doesn't matter - I'm here to help them, and give them the best start I can.

I will send them to University, and work hard to do so.

Your remarks are so full of hate, anger and biting cruelty. I can't figure out why you accuse me of being divorced (I'm not) and celebrating all sorts of holidays that you don't (as if somehow - that makes you superior).

You assert that every way you live is right (and every way I live is wrong). Every word you speak is truth (every word I speak is a lie). Every action you take is righteous (ever action I take is evil).

You might want to consider that you are not as *good* as you think, and I am not as *bad* and adjust your posts.

Anonymous said...

I did not accuse you of any thing atari. You sound like a wonderful mother. I hope you succede in your quest to teach your children that they are special in the sight of God. I hope you can find it in your heart some time to not accuse other's. I do not think of you as bad. I do not think of me as good. We are we. God created us both. and as too the weed, Holy smoke is a reference to the jumble of lies some teach there children. Children are the purest people alive. They are honest and pure until adults teach them how to lie. Traditions are lies. I am glad you love your children. And spending time with them and being a family is not tradition. I feel like you have the right to live how you want, and so do I. I do not think people have a right to get on t.v. and lie, and take away my freedom because I am not like you. That is all.

divaqs said...

ATAR_i has my respect and admiration. She remains a true peace-maker.

Time after time, I've seen others make accusations of others, when in fact those accusations are a reflection of the accusers own thoughts and deeds.

ATAR_i said...

Thanks Ruth and Divaqs, I see your words Ruth, and this time you stated they were meant for me, and they are very full of much anger.

Thanks for saying that, sometimes I feel attacked - as I know you must as well. I'm just trying to live, the best way I know how, and make a difference in a positive way.

Anonymous said...

I didn't know that Terry Barlow was married. Did he marry someone really young or did he get caught molesting a child?

Anonymous said...

Did Warren tell his followers to quit getting married by the law for a 1st wife. Could explain why Terry is in trouble.

fttc said...

Warren has told people not to bother with a civil marriage. I personally know of 5 couples that warren married and no civil marriage was performed. All of them were 18-24 boys and girls. I know one couple who use this to claim additional welfare funds applying as single mother. That may have been part of the rationale behind it. I think it is more just warren's disregard for the laws of his country.

ATAR_i said...

Hmmmmm, if they want to claim a social security death benefit, or get social security benefits for the kids if the father passes away - doesn't that leave them hanging in the wind?

fttc said...

It would at that but you have to remember the world is ending tomorrow. That is something not even considered by most. Rule of the day is take what you can while you can, before they all get blasted away!

Anonymous said...

We do not and never have believed the world is about to end. I believe I am going to live into eternity. It was not written in the book of Mormon that the world is about to end. It is written that we are on the threashold of the thousand years of peace. we believe that a man will live to the ripe old age of a tree. We believe that the more righouse will be left upon the earth. We believe that Jesus himself will come back and he will be our only law giver. We believe that in that day a person will only have to ask for a thing and they eill have it. We believe that men will beat their weapons of war into plow shears and emnity of men will cease. And if you look at things in reality some one died today. Some one's world ended. They went into the realm of spirits. An we believe that there will be absolutly no liers. I will rejoice greatly in that day.

Anonymous said...

Think very deeply upon this. You will only take yourself with you into the grave. I was looking at a photo of a man at his collage graduation. He was born ninty years ago. He is dead. He is as cute and expectant as can be, in this photo. He is dead now. He is what he is. He had the experiences he did. He is now on his journey in the other world. How long is your life realy. What is it you spent your entire life doing. What talent will you hold before Christ? We are on a journy. You shall be on that journy for a long time. What realy is your life worth? I will stand on what I believe. If I live or die, at least I was true to what I knew.

Anonymous said...

Ruth, your spelling has really improved over the months. I guess this forum has been a good education for you after all.

Keep Sweet, No Matter What!

ATAR_i said...

After all these years of having one wife in a civil ceremony - why the change? - why now?

Everything keeps changing - things that were OK are not? Things that were odd have become normal?

It's like everything has been tilted? I was reading a bit from the writings of Joseph Musser, the guy actually sounded normal. More normal in his speach patterns that the people who are trying to be like the people of his day.

He spoke very candidly about the problems with his wives, and how he felt about it. One comment even made me laugh. He was speaking about having a hard time with business because the 'rattle of his wives' reached pretty far.

It just seems like the community is growing and changing in a way that the men who started it could not have imaginged.

Is change always good? Is it producing good fruit? Are the people happier? Is it producing growth?

fttc said...

11:43, 11:49

You have made my point very well. If the earth is the Lord's and all that's in it and you are a member of the only people that belong to the Lord you have a right to everything in the earth. Anything you ask for will just be given to you. So it is no small leap to steal from all the liars (non- warrenites) in the earth. The Lord will come and wipe them all off anyway.
I'm sorry but this is not according to the law given to us. In our D&C the Lord says to pay for what you get even from your enemies. Do not take advantage of your neighbor. Since our government is the people when you take advantage of welfare programs when you don't need them you are taking advantage of your neighbor.
I realize of course this is another change warren has made. Your neighbors by his book are only those you feel are following the 'prophet'.

fttc said...

Atar

Some very good questions. If our people would answer them candidly without any twisting it would do them a world of good.
One of warrens most valuable tools is the fear factor. He has the people so expectant that the outside world will be destroyed 'tomorrow' that they do not have time to stop and think what they are doing. I know in many of my posts I have put a lot of blame on warren. He could not be where he is now if he did not have the support of others. Even down to the shakiest follower the people are responsible for where he is at.

The bigger picture that answers most of your quetions is that warren is pounding into the people that the time is so close to the end of all governments on the earth that there is no need to respect thier laws; the governments will be gone before they have a chance to catch up with us. If he can just stay hidden a while longer, if they can just get the money to build God's city however they can get it. As the anon poster said above; (paraphrased) after the destructions those left will be abel to have anything for the asking.

ATAR_i said...

What you say fttc is interesting. Mostly because I keep hearing from Ruth that they want nothing from us.

But when I listen to you, they want nothing to do WITH us, but they want anything and everything FROM us - in the end, this is one of the things driving them?

You can sustain that for so long, and then the cracks come - all of us can see them - and they can be felt by those inside as well (sort of a scary draft).

warren is desperately trying to patch up the cracks, but each time something happens, the cracks just widen, and pretty soon, his jar of clay will no longer hold, and the contents will come spilling out.

We've already seen - just on this blog, what sustained pressure, stress etc can do to individuals who desperately want to do the right thing.

We've seen what happened to those who didn't measure up, and spilled out (the lost boys, the apostates, reassigned wives and children, lost homes, lost business's, mental illness).

I do hope that no harm comes to the children. Your right - all adults in this thing bear some of the responsibility for what happens. They have supported it, perhaps against their better judgement - out of fear. Fear has never been a good decision making impetus.

Can your church be opened back up for services (guest speakers can come in perhaps) and singing - can some people begin to meet and offer support to one another, and provide a place for people to go who might want to leave - but NEED to feel the support and community they have become accustomed too?

Anonymous said...

there mugshots deffinatly turned me off!!!

fttc said...

Atar

Following Winston Blackmore's newsletter on the web and the weblog up there I gathered that the AG's tried to get Winston to start having meetings in the south. He considered it and decided against. His rationale if I understood it was that most of the people would feel imposed upon. You cannot help someone who is not willing to help themself. It may be in the future something like this will be feasible. I tend to agree with Winston on this one for now. My opinion is that warren will have to be removed first. If that is possible.
It is almost like an addiction. You either have to hit bottom and have nowhere to go but up or you acknowledge the problem earlier and wean yourself off. Few can quit cold turkey without serious personal setbacks (in this case the alcohol, drugs, sex, complacency etc.).

Anonymous said...

Hey, I have a question...

Can a person be arrested and charged again for the same crime after he has already served his sentance?

Rodney Holm has already served his sentance. Did he commit another crime, or is this the same one that he is arrested for?

Help me out, here. I dont understand.

ATAR_i said...

He committed it in two states - would be my guess. Charged in one, then the other?

Anonymous said...

Those mugshots....

Somebody dove face-first into the shallow end of the gene pool.

Anonymous said...

Terry married Cynthia Palmer.

onthestreet said...

fttc Said: Since our government is the people when you take advantage of welfare programs when you don't need them you are taking advantage of your neighbor.
I realize of course this is another change warren has made. Your neighbors by his book are only those you feel are following the 'prophet'. 7/14/2005 8:45 AM

STREET's Response: Welfare is for the welfare of the people, period, and especially for people who need it. Who has had a greater need than those who were prosecuted for religious freedom and forced to run and hide in a wilderness in the Arizona Strip after the 1880's, and the many raids since (1935, 1944, and 1953), where jobs and the means to sustain themselves were far more scarce?

WHO TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THEIR NEIGHBOR, BIGTIME?

God will use whatever means to sustain life, especially with those who bring forth life abundandly. For all things are His. Yet, when government policy supported by the people, is to MURDER 40-million children, to take life, and that abundantly, WHO TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THEIR NEIGHBOR, BIGTIME?

Warren changed nothing. There have been continuous revelation, for the true prophet walks by revelation. Yet, the same basic doctrines continue. As far as the "change" over welfare goes, Uncle Rulon also supported welfare for the people, Uncle Roy did also, as did Uncle John, and all the way back to Joseph Smith the people were ALWAYS directed to petition the government. It's the very word of God: (D&C: 97, 101, 111, 121).

HOW CAN WE FELLOWSHIP THE WORLD?

"There is nothing that would so soon weaken my hope and discourage me as to see this people in full fellowship with the world, and receive no more persecution from them because they are one with them. In such an event, we might bid farewell to the Holy Priesthood with all its blessings, privileges, and aids to exaltations, principalities, and powers in the eternities of the Gods." (Brigham Young, April 8, 1862, JD 10:32)


"My greatest happiness, I find in the good will and friendship that has developed among all classes of people at home and abroad toward the Latter-day Saint Church during my lifetime; in place of everyday persecutions and bitterness we now enjoy the high regard and happy association with all denominations." (Heber J. Grant, Nov. 22, 1938, Salt Lake Tribune)

ATAR_i said...

blah blah blah, yada yada yada

Yawn

Done yet?

fttc said...

Street

I normally do not respond to your rants but you actually used some references to more than your imagination in an attempt to whitewash the welfare fraud in CC. So for the record I have to say my peice.

First of all I am a witness to Rulon Jeffs stating that we should not be on welfare. My father was witness to Leroy Johnson being against it. There may have been some extreme cases where they counseled someone to accept government aid.
I don't think you have any proof that John Y. Barlow took government funds. If you can please give me the reference as I know you did not see it.
Now for today. I have seen families in town driving $40,000 pickups and having several cars and have a very nice house to boot that are on WIC, foodstamps, and SSI . You cannot tell me they needed the assistance. Your attempt to justify it because of former persecution is very lame. When those folks were returned to thier homes after the raid it was the teaching of the Priesthood to NOT accept government aid. Leroy Johnson did his best to make us a self-sufficient people. Very few responded. It was not until the late seventies that our people began to use government welfare in mass numbers.

onthestreet said...

Don't you know there are MILLIONS on government aid who drive nice vehicles and live in nice homes. I fail to see a difference, or the crime where the government itself assessed each case and ruled eligibility. Therefore they were all eligible and legal in doing it.

ATAR_i said...

If you say you don't have a husband to the government, then you say you do have a husband to everyone else (cause warren married you) THAT'S LYING.

Far as I know - that's STILL A SIN - ask Ruth.

fttc said...

Street

If government officials see wrongdoing with young girls being married before they are old enough to make a choice, and pass legislation to stop it you call it religious persecution.

If government officials choose to look the other way when they know someone should not be on the dole, you say that is not corruption and is all OK.

You can't have it both ways. If what government officials decide is the final word for you in one case it should be in another.

But all this doesn't matter anyway. All my life in the "FLDS" I have been taught I am supposed to be an example to the rest of the world. Others wrongdoings are not an excuse for mine. I don't believe you can honestly say you don't know that.

Anonymous said...

The People are the government. Can I steal from myself? For every tax dollar given back a person had to have given 90 percent of their pay. That is how taxes work. Tax people do not discriminate. We were tought by Uncle Roy to get out of debt and stay out of debt. Joeseph tought to become independant, and not depend on the government. Warren Jeffs like-wise have tought the people to be honest. He has tought us to love one another. He has tought us to love God with all our heart, might, mind and soul. He has tought us to love our neighbor as ourselfs. He has tought that God is our pay-master. He has tought us to ask of God. I ASK AGAIN, WHO WILL CHOOSE ZION? WHO WILL BE THE PURE IN HEART? IF THIS GOVERNMENT HAD NOT TAKEN 90 PERCENT OF OUR TAX, AND WE LIVED WHAT WE WERE TOUGHT IN CHURCH, WHO COULD STOP US. gOD IS OUR PAYMASTER. HE DOES SEND THE INCREASE. WE NEED NOT ACUSE THE GOVERNMENT. THEY ALSO KNOW WHAT THERE HANDS HAVE DONE. WE NEED NOT ACCUSE THE DISTRICT ATTORNY. WE NEED NOT ACCUSE OUR NEIGHBOR. ALL KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. GOD IS THE PAYMASTER. WHO IS THE PURE IN HEART. GOD AND YOU ALONE CAN ANSWER THAT QUEATION.

Anonymous said...

I would suggest you do not look to Ruth for your answer's or question's. She is but a sinner seeking repentance. The book of Morman has been printed in every culture in, every language, in every country. The Bible is also upon the land. You have the laws. You all also, have the ability to ask of God like James did advice. Betwene you and Christ lays your answers. Ruth has retired from your web page. Ruth has retired from giving advice. She voted for peace. She has not wanted to participate in your complaining or lies. You have all been tought the law of the prophets. You have an opertunity, to accept or reject the truth. We have a prophet in Zion. Who will be Zion? Zion is the pure in heart.

The Messanger.

Anonymous said...

What do you mean Ruth retired? Did warren's mob 'take care' of her? I think we should have an investigation here. Does anyone know where Ruth was living?

concerned

ATAR_i said...

Phooey on the one who feels stealing from the government is fine because you pay your taxes - what a load of hog fuel.

I pay my taxes, and I DON'T steal from the government. My roads are paved, and they make sure there are elections, public works, etc etc.

You can't have it both ways.

Messenger is a fake (other than he can't spell - which lends him some authenticity as far as being FLDS).

Ruth can't give FLDS a worse rap than it already has. Having her on board was no big deal. If they want to play nasty, and be mean to those who are ill - it just shows what kind of creatures they are.

onthestreet said...

AND HOW ILL THEY ARE.

ATAR_i said...

Ummm, I was speaking of your beloved warren. Wanna recant?

Anonymous said...

There are a ton of men, who are guilty of the same thing those men where arrested for, that are not living in colorado city. Why dont they get arrested. many of the men who are likeing what they see are Guilty of the same crime. They would have done or have done the same things. lets arrest them all.

Anonymous said...

Those men where told to do it, and some where hitched to 17 year olds, if you went and asked the wives if they felt oppressed i dont think they would say. "My life is hell , and i wish you would arrest my husband and save me from him!" That being said yes I belive there are some cases that need intervention, but thats everywhere in our great nation not just colorado city ariz. To make a law, and only enforce it against one sect of people is unamerican, and wronge if you make the law enforce it equaly.

BINGO said...

I agree.

fttc said...

And so it is. You can go to any city in the nation now and find a sex offender list of men in that particular area.

Your problem is that you are so stuck in the mindset that your people are the only good people on the earth that you cannot look outside of this and see you are not the only ones made answerable to the laws. Granted you are probably right that most of the young girls would not complain. This is mostly because of conditioning. If these girls were given the advice and knowledge that Atar gave on the Advise thread would they choose differently? I think they need to be given that choice.

As a side note I am FLDS. I had sisters who could have been married at young ages but chose not to. I know there are FLDS girls who have gone for an education who did not miss not getting married before 18. You cannot say all FLDS girls want to get married that young. It just isn't so.

Anonymous said...

Oh phooey. Ruth, you might sign your piece "Messanger" but until you stop using the same words (and misspelling them) and the same patterns, we know it's you. You can't retire from the blog and continue to post under a different name. It's still you. No matter what your invisible friend says.

Anonymous said...

Well it's a parents god given right to teach their children what they think is right. (within reason of course.) Hell if every parent had to teach their children= "condition",your version of Right, well how would that be,"phooey". And dont put words in my mouth fttc. I didn't say anything about them wanting or not wanting to get married before 18. Some do and some dont, and I have known bolth. The point is I think they are getting off target and creating victims.This is the war of the ages, Belief,those men felt it was their duty to take those wives, and to say no was to lose the ones they had.They are not the bad guys here. Go to the head thats where the problem lies. Yet everyone wants to sit back and say,"its illegal!!! Do something!" and then point fingers everywhere but at themselves. if fixing the problem is truely what you are after then go to the problem itself and not to the victims. take more from already frightened men. I know all those men personally and they are not bad men. they are not imoral men. there children love them. And another thought, I think if they would have let it be a little then it would have fallen apart on its own, but when they have a common enemy the bond together, and unite against it. By doing all that has been done they only prove warren right in the minds of the people. No amount of money will Deliver him.

fttc said...

In a way these men are victims as you say, but warren did not get where he is without thier support. It's not like warren has been holding a gun to the head of all these men for the past ten years. There have been chances for them to stand up to him. Of course it would have meant some personal sacrifices for some. Where is liberty won in any other way?
There are those who stood up to warren and kept thier families. I know some of them and they were willing to teach their family the truth while warren was preparing the trap these men are in now. It is apparent to me that if all the men had been teaching their families instead of letting warren do it, whether it was through tapes, books or in meeting/school, they would not stand much of a chance at loosing them. I agree with you that they "are not bad men. they are not imoral men. there children love them". But at the same time they have at least allowed themselves to get stuck where they are.
As far as just pointing fingers and not doing anything: I am resigned to the fact that the people made a choice to follow warren. I respect thier choice. But I see this blog as an opportunity to put my perspective in front of others without imposing. If I can get even one person to see the truth of what warren has done to our people, and what we have done to ourselves it may have an influence on changing thier course. I know there are those in with warren who read this. It is my true hope that the destruction of families will be stopped. If I don't put in my voice for what I know is right I will someday regret it.

Anonymous said...

OK OK OK! The insanity has to stop. The word is spelled T H E I R! Just had to get that off my chest.

Anonymous said...

FTTC: You say nobody had a gun to their heads and that they could have stood up and opposed Warren. But you should know as well as anyone else that it would have meant social, political, and familial suicide. In effect, Warren DID have a gun to their heads. Everyone is scared to death of him and what he can do to their families.

There were people who opposed Hitler early on in his reign of terror, too. Their names never even reached the history books, even though he snuffed them out, because it was just scattered individuals here and there and not the masses in the concentration camps.

In this particular situation, standing up to Warren wouldn't have paid off for the men who are now taking the heat for accepting his "gifts" of young girls.

fttc said...

Sorry to drive you crazy. It looked wrong but I was too lazy to look it up. ie always crosses me up.

fttc said...

I greatly differ with you in your comparison to Hitler. I know the many similarities in methods and thinking that exist and do not deny them. They were/are both evil men. However, if you read the history of Germany at the time of Hitler they were in an impoverished condition due to the aftermath of WWI. Most of the people were so glad to get work and food for their family that politics took second place to survival. Hitler took advantage of this condition. I don't think you can say the same for our people. The ground work for conditions today were being laid back in the early '80s. There were men teaching things as coming from Leroy Johnson that he didn't say. "New" revelations that made old ones false began to appear. We did not as a people stand up against changes being made to the fundamental doctrines of our religion. It was not because we were distracted by poverty or want. It was because we had grown complacent. The Barlow brothers and Uncle Fred were at the center of many of these changes. Conditions worsened after LSJ's death. Former teachings by Rulon T. Jeffs himself became false. Warren replaced the Barlows and took up with much of what they were teaching.
This came about among us because we didn't love the truth unadulterated. We wanted the next 'new thing'.

And I don't believe it wouldn't have paid off to stand up for the truth. I know some people who stood up to it all along and they were never bothered by warren. Yes, he kicked them out, but he only kicked them up. Their families are intact and their testimony of the gospel is just as strong.

Perhaps our opinions differ in when this all started but I think an honest appraisal of the facts as we know them now will bear it out.

fttc said...

I have one more comment on being scared to death.

Joseph Smith tells us: "So long as men are under the Laws of God they have no fear". Is there a message in this for us.

onthestreet said...

"There are those who stood up. . "
7/16/2005 6:00 PM

Anonymous said...
OK OK OK! The insanity has to stop. The word is spelled T H E I R! Just had to get that off my chest. 7/16/2005 10:20 PM

STREET's Reply: Art thou shewr?

fttc said...

Street you're really going to have to stretch your reading abilities here. I have misspelled their probably twenty times today. That is what Anon 10:20 had reference to. With your kindergarten education you probably missed that though.

fttc said...

Wow! Such an example of class, refinement and culture you just gave us. And by the way how do you spell minute?

Anonymous said...

LOL

Anonymous said...

be nice

Anonymous said...

So what do you think should be done with the men arrested? This is for fttc.

Anonymous said...

And this is a Blog not a spelling bee. If it bugs you so bad leave the blog. Simple.

fttc said...

I think they should have a fair trial and if found guilty they should suffer the penalty.
Now before you call me heartless let me say this: I think these men are being used to get to warren. He is the real target of law enforcement. If these men cooperate and behave instead of continuing to spit in the eye of the law they will get off very easy if they are found guilty. Look at Rodney's case in Utah. He was treated very good and then released early on good behavior.

These men knew the risk they took when they married these young girls. Perhaps an earlier poster was right and they did it because they feared warren. At least this way they become a hero to the cause instead of a casualty? :)

Anonymous said...

hahahahah

I put that misspelling in there to see if anyone (and who it would be) would catch it! Good catch FTTC! You crack me up! (I really thought Atari would be the one to catch it!)

I am not even FLDS!!!

Hey...FTTC arent you FLDS raised? How come you can spell????

fttc said...

I didn't go to the public school in CC!

Anonymous said...

OK then fttc, indeed we should try them, lets go back,all the way back,and arrest anyone who ever married under the leagal limit. My dad married my mom when she was 15, Hell dan fisher married his wives when they were under age. What makes them exempt??? Oh i get it they left so they are no longer crimminals, they dumped their wives and that makes it all ok. The real reason: They are not F.L.D.S. What i have said is true and i know it is. Any honest man will know that these men were targeted because of the beliefs pure and simple. They were not abuseing anyone. Just liveing their lives trying to make a go of it. Minding their own p's and q's. Which is a lot more than i can say for some. well fttc?

fttc said...

In a strictly legal sense the other men you mentioned did not break the law due to the girls age. It is just recently legistlation has been passed making this a crime.

I know there are those of you who feel like this was aimed specifically at our 'Prophet'. I don't believe this. It was other polygamist groups that had some abuses of young girls that got the ball rolling on this. The law has been leaving our people alone for the most part. At least as far as marriages are concerned.

When law enforcement began to show some interest in our people was when the surrounding areas (St. George, etc.) began to see a huge increase in delinquents coming from our people. Yes, they are using the laws to try and stop it. This marriage law happens to be one of them. The destruction of families needs to be stopped. There are young children who are being hurt very badly. The delinquency is evidence enough for me.

I know some of these men personally also. My heart aches for them. But they knew what they were doing. What would it hurt to tell a girl to wait until she is 18? Warren is disregarding the law far beyond what he can justify by the gospel.

None of this mess need be. Warren would not be a target for this if he had listened to his father's counsel. Uncle Roy said he was done with young marriages. The men would not listen. They insisted their young girls get married. I heard Uncle Rulon say the same thing (that he was not marrying any more young girls). He told me and others that some of the elders insisted their daughters get married young. So we have brought all this upon ourselves by our disobedience.

Anonymous said...

And why did they pass this legistlation,these crimes are apperant all over, and always have been. They are not only in the FLDS,or the Kingstons ect... It happens all over. But the law is only being inforced the way it is against FLDS! The point is Ya they got 2 kingstons,Great they should have,But the law was pointed at Us! If this isnt true then go back and arrest all of them. You didnt anser my question on why dont we go back and arrest everyone that married any girl under the age of 18!? Anywhere. Their address shouldnt matter. If you make the law be fair about it. And how did they get these 10 men as their test animals? What did they do pull their names out of a hat?? Why not arrest the whole damn town, Hell lets raid it! Thats where this is going. And you fttc, did you mary under age girls? How many wives are you ready to dump? Are you even married? You speak with a lot of logic and its been a fun debate,no offence intended,but how far did you go? I am not married and have only just left the place, and i dont think its fair what the state of arizona is doing in this case. I think its wrong!! They will only make them stronger in their convictions. And the harder they push the more they will resist them. Your thought fttc?

fttc said...

We have a clause in the US Constitution that says no ex post facto law shall be made. That means you cannot convict someone who committed an act before the law was made. That is why we cannot go back and arrest everyone that married young wives.

As Atar has pointed out before, polygamy is illegal, has been for years. Yet we as a people have been living and teaching it. The law has been looking the other way. Is it right? Not from a legal viewpoint. But we were not bothering anyone. For years we kept to ourselves. There were a few that left here and there of course but they were relatively few. And of those few there not many who ended up on the streets making trouble.

The expulsions, the family mayhem and destruction that has come in the past five years has dumped literally hundreds of youth on the surrounding communities. If you are recently moved out you probably know this better than I.

I suppose it is human to resist when you think you are being forced. You are probably right that if left alone this whole thing will implode. There may be, and probably are, those in law enforcement who would target our people specifically. They have to do so under the law though. And I don't have a better solution to this than what they are doing. Do you?

We have only seen the tip of the iceberg so to speak, in the damage done to children who are yanked from one father to the next. Fathers that the children learn to love and trust become evil just because the 'prophet' says. What moral compass will this leave the children? Something had to be done.

As for whether I am married myself, it doesn't really matter. I have posted anonymously and hope to remain so for present. If what I am saying has some logic to it perhaps there is also some truth to it. My purpose is to try and wake some of our people up to the fact that we have put ourselves in this situation.

ATAR_i said...

Sorry Anon - I was gone today - couldn't find the lil' spelling glitch. Good one though.

fttc said...

Good to have you back Atar. Now I can shut up. ;)

onthestreet said...

You certainly can. You do us such honor.

Anonymous said...

Maybe street will follow your fine example. Thanks fttc!

ATAR_i said...

LOL FTTC - I think I have too much sarcasm in my posts the last couple days - gotta get my groove back.

fttc said...

Street does that to a person. When you throw logic at him he responds with such twisted, incoherent statements that it becomes hard to tell where reality starts and ends. Sarcasm is the inevitable result.

onthestreet said...

He says it best: "I am the beginning and the end." The result with the feeble and the confused is sarcasm.

onthestreet said...

The truth is not obtained by LOGIC. The things of God cannot be understood except by the Spirit of God.

Anonymous said...

The result with the feeble and the confused is sarcasm.

Which is why it's OTS favorite tactic.

onthestreet said...

Ahh, both God and Satan can be sarcastic. Then there is feeble man in between. All are capable of this, but how true, relative, and applicable is the sarcasm?

Now there's a question for you to weigh, if you may. But hey, if you just bay like a horse, you may decay into the hay that's excreted from the other end.

ATAR_i said...

OK - just plain weird OTS - your talking in your own language again. I know it's something you can't help because of your illness - but I just thought I'd let you know.

onthestreet said...

CIRCLE

Anonymous said...

Man OTS i really wish you would sell your computor, you are sure makeing it hard on all the faithfull to defend thier veiw. Besides you are going Crazy!! lol

fttc said...

Street

We don't always have all the truth and hence the need for faith, but the truth will always be logical. That's what makes it so simple a child can understand it. Which is more than you can say about much of what warren teaches and more especially what you teach. You have to have your special brand of the holy spirit to understand your mutterings.

onthestreet said...

That's right, fttc. It has to be very special, or you cannot. "For the things of God cannot be understood except by the Spirit of God."

As for not needing truth or faith. . . Well, I'll let intelligent minds weigh that for themselves. WE ALWAYS HAVE IT. The prophet proclaimed it for the FAITH-FULL! "There is truth in the air. It is everywhere!"

onthestreet said...

CIRCLE (analyze it if you can).

Anonymous said...

CIRCLE: A place where OTS goes around and around and around trying to find a place to sit in the corner.

onthestreet said...

Ahh, so you know that circles have corners. Now, explain it.

The world is round, and God has sent forth his Word to the four corners of the earth.

What does it mean?

Anonymous said...

The earth was still flat when they wrote that.

Faithful Woman said...

Note, Ruth is the only one who spells Mormon with an A. "Morman"

onthestreet said...

Ruth's got it right: More Man, and a true MormAn get's straight A's.