Wednesday, June 22, 2005

Warren Jeffs removed as head of UEP

Several news outlets are reporting that WJ and his cronies have been removed as trustees of the UEP. See link below

http://radio.ksl.com/index.php?sid=213870&nid=19

84 comments:

Anonymous said...

Okay people lets keep a close eye on UEP assets.

If you see something post it immeaditly!

Anonymous said...

They were burning the weeds!! AAAAAAAH!!

Anonymous said...

John Taylor said in 1884 Journal of discourses, volume 25 "I have had to have guards in my house, so had President Young, for nearly two years, to keep from being ssassinated. I was in prison with Joseph and Hyrum, when they were shot down in cold blood. We were thren placed under the protection, or professed protection, of the Governor, who told Dr. Bernhisel and myself that we had better not bring any arems with us to defend our-selves, and who pledged his faith and the faith of the state for our protection. I saw that faith violated and trampled in the dust. I saw these men, to whom protection was promised, shot down in cold blood by assassins gathered for the purpose. These are things that I have witnessed in the few years that I have lived upon the earth. When I left Nauvoo, I left a very good house, very well furnished. I left carpets on the floors, stoves in the rooms, crockery ware in the cup-boards, and I got into my carriage with my faimily, and left it to seek that protection among the Red Indians, that we could not find among the people who lived in this boasted land of the free and home of the brave, this vaunted asylulm of the oppressed. We were protected here among the Indians, and I felt perfectly safe among them. I would as soon go among the Red men to-day who traverse these mountains, as I would anywhere else, and feel myself just as safe. We believe that God lives in the heavens and manipulates the nations of the earth, and woe to them that fight against Zion! I tell them in the name of God that He will fight against them. Amen

Anonymous said...

Journal of Discourses 25 p. 188 John Taylor I would rather have God for my friend than all other influences and powers outside: for in God we live, in God we move, and from God we derive our being and our existence. He will help us and bless us, and He will bless Zion, and preserve Israel, and woe to them that fight against Zion, for God will fight agaisnt them.

fttc said...

You are absolutely right. This is a condemnation of Warren if there ever was one. He is changing the laws, breaking up the covenants and when "his" people wake up they will find he is the enemy of Zion and they have supported him in its destruction!

Anonymous said...

Journal of Discourses 25 p. 92 Was there anything surprising in all this? No. If they killed Jesus in former times, would not the same feeling and influence bring about the same results in these times? I had counted the cost when I first started out, and stood prepared to meet it. p. 93 But the republicans are afraid that the democrats are going to make use of us in some way or other, and they are determined to crowd the Mormans down their throats, and the democrats gulp at it: they don't like to swallow it. They don't want to shoulder the responsibility, and so the democrats will join with the republicans on a question of this kind, just the same as the Scribes and Pharisees, the Herodians and Sadducees, did when Jesus was to be crucified. Pilate and Herod could then be made friends, and they were hail fellows well met. So it is now, and as the Church of England chant says" As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, worlds without end, amen," It may continue-at least for a certain length of time. We are engaged in a work of importance. we are dual beings associated with time and eternity: I might say associated with the past, the present, and the future. We have a work to perform here upon the earth, and with the help of Israel's God we wxpect to do that work.

Anonymous said...

And your point is?

Anonymous said...

oh I got the point. can't believe I missed it after all these years.

every year we have to hear all this "jesus this" and "the lord that" from Payton Manning of the Colts.
"the Lord gave us the strength to overcome our weakness, pulled trough diversity and gave us the victory...",
"thank Jesus for giving us the faith, the will to succeed and triumph over those wish to see us fail..."
...but every time they get to the play-offs...same old story. Tom Brady and Patriots kick his ass.
you see, Payton, it's not who's the most faithful, the most humble, the most righteous ....nope... lord don't want that
...it's the guy with all the chicks

don't believe it? just ask Shaq

keep sweet eldorado
stg

Anonymous said...

To Anon 11:13 & 10:43

You keep saying how wonderful Warren is and how we should stop fighting Israel. It is pretty obvious that he is your God. Remember, The Lord said that "thou shalt have no other Gods before me." Why do you think all of this turmoil has happened to the FLDS? We as a people have put the "profit" in place of our Lord and Savior. The B of Mormon is full of stories of people that worshiped a man istead of Heavenly Father. THey forgot Him and they were brought under bondage and had lots of persecution. We have done nothing other than forget our Heavenly Father and made a king out of Warren. A wicked king I might add. Most of what is happening is our own fault.

fttc said...

5:47

You said it best! Let's keep pounding it until some of the Warrenites get it.

to above posters who thought they had the last wise word: You're way off the topic of this thread. you're supposed to be reporting any violations. Instead you're trying to distract us while your cohorts plunder!

Anonymous said...

Is it plundering?

Are the people who put up and paid for those buildings taking them away to keep them from Warren?

Or is it Warren ordering them removed in violation of the court order?

There are a lot of other possibilities.

Do any of you have any inside information on this?

Anonymous said...

Great idea. Warren could go live amoung the indians and quit destroying his own people. Better not try to take wives from them though. Might get scalped.

Anonymous said...

John Tayler said in 1879 Just as Jesus was treated; Just as his Apostles and just as the prophets of old were treated. Men have always killed the prophets and stoned those who were sent to them. But then what of that? That is all the worse for those who did this; they have the hardest row to hoe, for they as well as we have yet to appear before the Judge of the whole earth, and he will say, "I called but you refused; I streached out my hand but you heeded it not; hence, I will laugh at your calamity, and will mock when your fear cometh. I offered you light; I offered you truth; I offered you intelligence; I desited to promote your happiness, your well being, but you would not have it, and therefore you are left without excuse." Does he feel sorry to see them act that way? Yes; but he cannot help it, he is governed by law, and those laws are inexorable and just and they cannot be departed from.

Anonymous said...

Who wants to be a trustee? Speak now or forever hold your peace . .

Anonymous said...

Warren Jeffs is and will always be the leader and spokesman of the Fundementle Church of Jesus Christ. He is the one that God chose. You have a choice to accept or reject this, like all men had to accept or reject the prophets of old. The choices you make do not change the choices God made. A person can fall away or critazise or fight. The Gospel is a work of joy and peace. Land, houses and Glory does not change the course of God. Tho, you mock and look for war, God has not changed his word. Either you are on God's side or the devils. Only the obedient will see the joy of the Gospel. All others feel the misery of a just law upon them. ARe you fighting or are you promoting peace? Are you looking forward to great glory or great judgement? This is a personal question. One that only you can answer for yourself. One that you will have to answer before Jesus himself. NO man excapes his own Judgement day. All men die. All men stand before Jesus to be Judged with what they have done. Did you propomote Love or hatred. As you Judge so shall it be done unto you. As you forgive so will Jesus forgive you.

ThePilot said...

I have updated website again with about 20 current photos. This time I paid particular attention to vehicles, people and odd things that stand out (like grain silos). If you see anything fishy or notice a vehicle that belongs to UEP – contact the blog admin and they can get the info to the right people. Or contact me and I will.

http://web.sccn2.net/flds

Anonymous said...

Just do us a favor pilot, quit calling this private property, a compound. I do like the photo's. You show me what my Lord does build. How great the works of his hands. How great the works of his hands. How great is my Lord upon the earth. With great oppression, and critazisim, How great is the works of his hands.

Anonymous said...

Annonymous 3:55 is right. Compound is not the right word. Gulag or Concentration Camp are probably better.

Anonymous said...

And Pilot, What is odd about a grain silos?
If that is what you people call odd, then we could report that in the years past, we have built a few other city's too. It is all recorded. To bad you were not around then to print pitcher's for us too. I like your photo's Keep up the good work. "For the Lord makes all thing's good for those that live as they should"

Anonymous said...

I think it is strange too pilot.

Why would you have 5 silos with so little farm land? And in the middle of town. I farm more that that with a pick-up to haul all the seed. Stocking up for the future; maybe the second coming??

ThePilot said...

To 3:55
I meant no disrespect. I placed COMPOUND on the header of website so people would not get it mixed up with some Church authorized website. What would you like me to call it? I am open to suggestions.

Anonymous said...

Yes for the second coming and for some good wholesome bread. You ought to try it sometime. And the raw milk cheese and hard icecream. Is the dairy coming to Texas, possibly?

Anonymous said...

Pilot, those pics were awesome, keep them coming..thanks

Anonymous said...

Go to hell.

Anonymous said...

ok I will save you a spot by the fire..

Stinger said...

I am sure the dairy will be coming to Texas now that oil has been found. Nuthin' like them fat oil fed cows, eh' Ruth?

Anonymous said...

To 1:25

"Warren Jeffs is and will always be the leader and spokesman of the Fundementle Church of Jesus Christ. He is the one that God chose."

Was Warren chosen by God, the people, or by himself? Please explain how he was chosen.

Anonymous said...

Journal 12 page 138 I speak these things by way of exhortation to my young brethren and sisters that they may not depart nor go astray from the light and knowledge, but seek after that which is good continually, and so order their course as to be blameless before the Lord their God. I would not wish to make offenders for a word. God is merciful, and we can forgive our brethren. Do nothing offensive in the sight of God, but live so that we may ever have the guidance of his holy spirit.

ThePilot said...

To Anon 4:03:
I think the silos are unusual because there were only three a month ago. There were two cement towers a week ago but now only one. Remember that I see the site every day and know when something is different. I do not have agendas or religious rhetoric to give. My website is designed to calm fears of the unknown. People tend to fear what they can not see. I allow people to see the temple and site and to let every one know how magnificent the temple really is. It is the best of both worlds; FLDS can have their closed sanctuary, and the public can see everything without trespassing. I just report what I see and hope that the people who paid for this holy site, get to see it and use it..

ThePilot said...

One more thing, in the interest of diplomacy my website refers to the compound as a "Sanctuary".

Anonymous said...

Are the men only allowed to wear solid blue shirts now?? Check out the photo with the men in it.

P.G.

Anonymous said...

Warren chosen to be the leader of the FlDS by none other than himself. He had a younger brother and two of his mothers stand up in a general meeting and tell the audience that he was the new leader. They said that while in their presence they saw Warrens father pass the "keys" on to him. It is amazing to see how Warren has wormed his way into the leadership position that he is in. It took brains and a long time to brainwash all of the people. Since he has started to take over he has caused nothing but heartache for thousands of people. There is no way for anybody to fully comprehend the devastation that Warren has done to the FLDS people. The result of Warrens destruction will be seen for many generations. Their will be children that are so messed up in the head because they went through their childhood with several different fathers, brothers, sisters and mothers. Every time their mother gets remarried it will be off to a new family with a new family. Their last names changed again. The question that I ask is when will it all end?

Anonymous said...

Hi Pilot!

Thank you for your decent posts. You are such a great example of how this situation should be handled! We all appriciate the fact that you don't use your position and advantage to blast anyone. Thanks for the great pictures and well chosen words. Your respect of these fellow human beings says a lot for you (and your parents, too!)


One thing I might mention, the silos are a significant part of the FLDS teachings. In fact, Mormons in general teach preparedness and food storage as an important part of their doctrine. This, I believe is common knowlege.


The silos are most likely filled with different types of grain which are used to feed those who live and work on the property. This has been a common practice for most of the FLDS.


The women folk of the FLDS are extremely talented and well trained in nutrition and food preparation. The grains are either fresh ground or sprouted first and then ground to make a delicious bread and many other highly nutritious dishes. (If anyone reading this is ever in CC, I recommend you purchase some of their homemade bread....mmmmmm. In fact, all of their food is just downright yummy!!)


I believe that is what they are using the silos for. (Hell if anyone really thought about it, logic says if you expect men to work 20 hour days, you have to fuel them to handle the job.)

Been there, done that!

Wild Thang from CC

Anonymous said...

And If our lands were realy being looted like the media likes to portray by a few disgruntled people, than how did we build a city in a year. Colorado City is no small place stuck out in the desert with nothing but a few brain washed people. They are very thrifty, and talented. There are no dumb people here. Even the people who do leave have skills to top amazement. We are builders. And we do have large faimily's. So the question of why we have large grainries is very simple. I say it like this: You learned the a. b. c.'s. We learned the whole alphabet. I know every member of my family. I came from a very large family. I know all my family personally too. We ate every day. We did dishes every day. I tell you my family could have used one of those grainries easy, where-in you have very small families, So I can see your wonder at our large grainries, and I think that size of grainries are no particular matter if you need them you need them. And to Pilot: Would it be nice if you called this Texas Ranch just . I thought about Little Texas Ranch. Of course you understand, WE know you were not part of a Church. No churches call Ranches compounds? Other's generaly call People's places compound's when they want to slander a people, to make it look justifiable to persicute. Our people would never put up a web page like that, so of course we knew you were not a church. It is church haters and God hater's that use words like compound's. But your Photo's are incredible. I can see the work of "my Lord" And Lord in the scripture is refrenced as Husband, And one greatly Loved.

Anonymous said...

to the one who askes if the Dairy will be going to Texas: I would say, Oil is upon the ground from Canada to mexico, From Maine to California, The rivers run Black upon the mud. Can you imagine how picked on you would be if the pioneers had not splat their oil on the mud. Just think how your fancy cars would have sunk, like a ship at sea, in a puddle. Think of that kind of free. And good old cattle riddles. And Texas Blue and Love true.

rumor-has-it said...

The UEP does not own cars or things of that nature. It is just a trust to hold land. It doesn't even have a bank account. So you will not see anything you can post here like that. Even Kelly's building in Hildale, was a company building. Not UEP. However the houses and trailers are UEP and the UEP was meant to protect "us" from people like the Banks with mortgages that could kick us out on the street with our large families.

There has never been a UEP office or UEP trustees that we could talk to if we had issues. I can't wait until there is a UEP Office and the "Creekers" that pioneered the town can have their houses back. Not that we would ever want to live there again (lol) but at least we can stop the abuse of power. This is not Warren Jeffs town. As you can tell he has no use for it. But we do. We love our hometown, It will always be Home.

Anonymous said...

Even after all the religious quotes, dairy whereabouts, compound, sanctuary, great loved one, cattle riddle nonsense is posted, the fact remains.....the Warren UEP stranglehold has been broken! That is what is important here.

I've heard all kinds of comments like "If the Gov can break the UEP trust then they can break any trust". The answer to that is "you bet they can". If a trust is set up under the laws of a state, but the trustees choose to disregard the laws of the state, then any trust can be legally broken or invalidated. Shutup and deal with it. And lets hear no more postings about how wonderful Warren is. He has strung you people out for too many years all the while realizing that he can blame all of his problems on to you for not believing strong enough and obeying his commandments. I wake up every day and resist the urge to put a full page ad in a Las Vegas newspaper calling for volunteers to take a weekend out of their busy schedules to drive up to Colorado City and slap some sense into you people.

The things you are being told to do are not normal, they are repulsive even to the worst of our society, and are degrading to humans as a whole. STOP IT ALREADY!

Since beginning of recorded history more people have been killed in the name of religion than for any other reason. Second to that is disputes over land ownership. These are also the two main reasons why our ancestors left Europe...so they could own their land and not have religion stuffed down their throats!

The histories are also full of stories of people who have been following "prophets" who make predictions that do not come true, who then turn and blame the followers for not believing and being faithful enough. You are not the only fools to believe this type of nonsense. The first step for any addict of heroin, cocaine, or religion, is to stand up and say "I admit, I've gotten it all wrong, I am an addict."


To the new UEP trustees whom ever they may be: If you do generate new deeds to transfer title of land and homes from the UEP to the people who now live on the land, make sure you list the UEP as a first lein holder. When the title is transferred a second time, at least the UEP will be paid the money for land value. The owner will reap any benefits from improvements, but that is what they are entitled to anyway.

Make sure you have rules written around land valuations. If an original land contributor or their children still live on the land, if title tranfers, the UEP should only get the amount of money that the land was worth when it was originally transferred into the UEP. If a person built or lives in a house on land that their forefathers didn't contribute, then when title transfers, the UEP will get the currently appraised value of the land and the house builder/owner will get the value of the improvements. If you as a contibuting church member gave money to build a house for someone else on UEP property, then when title transfers you can always sue the owner/seller and get your money back from the improvements you helped create. Keep your reciepts....this kind of thing is done every day in the real world.


New trustees: Think about these things and discuss them in depth. You cannot stop people from donating their land back to Warren if they get title, but you can make sure the UEP receives just compensation as a legal Trust when it occurs.

Long Time Gone and disgusted....

Anonymous said...

You do contridict your self, Lol. Why would you fight a war you do not want to win. You say and I will quote, "Not that we would ever want to live there again." You are right. The U. E. P. was set up to protect the ones who DID AND DO, WANT TO LIVE HERE. It was not designed to cater to the ones who want to fight and take. And power! What is power? Owner-ship is responsibility. Those that pionered this town are in the Heaven's crowned in great glory. All the Land that any one is upon was handed to them, and you turn and say you do not want to be here. You only then in my estimation want to take it from those that do. I say Isreal will not fall. Zion will raise in all her glory. Are you part of Zion or are you a greedy squabbler? Zion is the pure in heart. Zion is North and South America. Zion is the City of Enoch. Zion is God's Chosen. Who then will chose Zion. This is your choice. In life and death we all have traversity. Would you then not forgive and Love one another and let God bless you? Is your life so misserable that you can not open a door for God to whisper peace unto you? WE are upon the Land of Zion. Make a heaven in your spot of Glory. I ask you again Lol, Why fight a war you can not win? Would you take power away from a man that thousands love. If our comunity was run by anyone else. Would it put love upon you? Open your heart, Lol. Look in the mirror. Why fight a war you can not win. Love is the greatest power in existance. It is what God controls elament with. Love is God. God is love. ARe you Like him? I say none of us are. I know I am not. I then have need of charity and repentance and Love. Oh, I have a great need for squeeky cheese and texas love, and a little oil, upon my horizion, too. Cows are alright but oh, those Texas skies and Texas dreams, and if he was building else-where I would be thinking of that. Like say if He had chosen Oragen, I would be saying, "Oh, the ORagan trail, is where I want to lay my hat"-------LoL did you ever love any one like that?

Anonymous said...

And to the busy body that thinks they are knowledgeable enough to tell other's what to do with their land, and live in the real world: It sounds like you are liveing in fantsy land. we ARE In the real world. I see the sun above us. I see the rain's as they come and go. I feel real enough. can you say your way is the REAL way? What then is real. My way is real enough. The critazisim I have to endure for Loveing some one is real enough. The fires upon the land are real enough. The rains this spring are real enough. Keep your reality chucked in your pocket. Do not try to stuff it down my throat. My REAL, Is real enough. I say Zion will triamph. Zion will raise in all her Glory. Zion is the pure in heart. Land is not the issue. It is an attack on religion that is the issue. If I want to worship a toad, I shall do so. If I worship a portal, I shall do so. sure beats all the foulness in your real world. And you will never take my Love away. But you are right, more wars are fought over religion than any other thing. Promote religiouse freedom then: not critazisim, and the theivery of a man's land.

fttc said...

To Warrenite in the real world.

I bet if your prophet told you that wasn't the sun you see and the rain you feel you would believe it. He has told you the the equivalent in gospel terms and you have swallowed it hook, line and sinker. Now he will take from your Zion and build his; leaving you to sink or swim as you can look out for yourself. I know you will not see it and that is the heartbreaking part for those such as me who still love our people even though you have cast me out from among you. Warren is following a blueprint of what Hitler and many tyrants throughout history have followed. Your turn will come for him to pass judgement on you, strip you and throw you to the dogs if he is allowed to continue. Fortunately for all of you the law is getting ready to prosecute him for the CONSTITUTIONAL laws he has broken. Then will you see him in his true light? If the intelligence in your post here is a real indication of your character you will find another man to make into a King/God and you will fare even worse. I remember Uncle Rulon having the Nephite Lamentation played at meeting in SL many times. I wondered then if it was an omen. Now I see it was for sure.

Anonymous said...

Read the comeing crises and how to meet it. Can you honestly say you suported Uncle Rulon and Turn against Warren. Of course the Nephite Lamentation was something Uncle Rulon wanted sung, if he did have it sung. Uncle Rulon also wondered if there would be five hundred faithful men left. I can see why now. Also it is written in the scriptue's saying there would be very few honest men left upon the nation. There are many men who do break the laws of the gospel and sit and say, "We have no Idea why we were excuminicated." If you love Uncle Rulon stand up on your feet and LIVE the gospel. Come up to the mark. Warren Jeffs will rein triamphant and Zion will rise. Only the faithful will be crowned in glory. Read the books, and apply them, lest your soul be lost and your sorrow be eternal.

fttc said...

It is that pamphlet and the scriptures that make it impossible for me to support Warren. The only books I can read to support Warren are those he wrote himself. He has done an excellent job of taking a scripture here and one there to support his position. Problem is he has changed the teachings to where he cannot square them up with the prophets. Why do you think he has so innundated you with woks (books, tapes, newsletters, pamphlets, etc.) that if you keep up with his latest you have no time to study the actual scriptures yourself. I feel sorry for anyone who has such a strong "testimony" of Warren that they cannot think for themself. Your anchor seems to be attached to this man. This is the thing Brigham feared and it is the thing our leaders warned us against for years. If each man cannot stand on his own with God he is of no use to anyone. My heart aches for you and all that continue to be so blind.

Anonymous said...

And the Prophets have been removed from our association. This also is prophacy. It is written, Every man will have to stand on their own two feet. It is written if a man ask you to go a mile go two. If a man asks of you your coat give him your cloak also. It is written do not cast your pearls before swine. I am not trying to convert you to anything. You have a right to worship your big toe, if you desire. I have a right to worship a man. Joeseph Smith Transilated the Book of morman. It is written in every language in every country around the world. It is available to every soul. Can you say that people live the law of Christ or do you supose they live the law of politics and public opinion. I did not make the law. Neither did any man. God did inspire men to write the scripture. That is why he said, "I would have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chicks under her wing and you would not." You make it seem a terrible thing to love a man, yet all over the world women love men. So you do not believe as I do. What of that. Do you supose that you could believe in any thing that would bring you joy? I would be interested in any GOOD thing you have to say.

furnace said...

Speaking of coming crisis, it also states that the Lord Himself would contribute to the delusion, because "knowing the truth, they do not love it unadulterated." If these "higher and holier" teaching aren't adultering the truth, I don't know what is. The truth is "hear it, O Israel, the Lord our God is ONE god", not Warren.

Anonymous said...

Who said anything about not loving a man? It is the worship of a man that is against the laws of God. Read the ten commandments. And the only joy any of us can find is in doing the best we can with what we know.

Having said this we are way off topic here. You guys take your religious discussions somewhere else. A lot of what you are talking about is dutch to any outside the Fundamentalist Mormon realm.

Anonymous said...

rumor-has-it said...
The UEP does not own cars or things of that nature. It is just a trust to hold land. It doesn't even have a bank account. So you will not see anything you can post here like that. Even Kelly's building in Hildale, was a company building. Not UEP. However the houses and trailers are UEP and the UEP was meant to protect "us" from people like the Banks with mortgages that could kick us out on the street with our large families


Dear Rumor This is in reference to your above post.

So what makes a company like Cozy Homes special? Because Kelly Fischer is an Warrenite!

If an apostate loaded up their company property and hauled it off what would of happen? Sam Roundy would loaded them up and took them to jail, like his officers did when Chatwin changed the locks on his own house. Remember that. Double standards.

The United Effor Plan Trust was formed to protect the polygamist life style, no more, no less. It has backed fired!

Now in a twist of fate or a heavenly judgement the UEP has to be rescued from itself.

Kinda ironic.

Hopefully all the newly appointed trustees approach this opportunity with wisdom and humility and not with an agenda.

Kelly Fischer needs to bring the building back or the UEP needs to let every home/mobile home owner have a deed of trust to the land and home asap. Or allow them to hitch it up and move it just like Mr. Fischer did.

Anonymous said...

fttc said...

It is that pamphlet and the scriptures that make it impossible for me to support Warren. The only books I can read to support Warren are those he wrote himself.

Are these books published and available to the public? Are they reprinted on the Internet? I'd like to read the words of this modern "prophet."

Joseph's words are avialable. Where are Warren's?

someone who woke up said...

anonymous 10:24 Remember When Uncle Rulon made the statement about 500 faithful men. He also stated that the 500 meant, men with their women and children. Warren's goal seems to be to have 5 men each with 500 women and children. Can you honestly say to yourself that What Warren is doing to these families is any thing in comparison to what we saw in Uncle Rulon? Remember also when Uncle Rulon used to say "those who are not with me scattereth abroad." All you Canadian out there who are longing to go to the Texas holy land. Remember Warren used to say "Father says the Canadians are to stay put. They will be lifted up and set down in Colorado City. Colorado City will be the gathering place to prepare us for the journey to Jackson County Missouri." So God changed his mind and decided we would all just settle in Texas. Wake up, stop believing this lie that you know is just a lie.

someone who woke up said...

anonymous 10:24 Remember When Uncle Rulon made the statement about 500 faithful men. He also stated that the 500 meant, men with their women and children. Warren's goal seems to be to have 5 men each with 500 women and children. Can you honestly say to yourself that What Warren is doing to these families is any thing in comparison to what we saw in Uncle Rulon? Remember also when Uncle Rulon used to say "those who are not with me scattereth abroad." All you Canadian out there who are longing to go to the Texas holy land. Remember Warren used to say "Father says the Canadians are to stay put. They will be lifted up and set down in Colorado City. Colorado City will be the gathering place to prepare us for the journey to Jackson County Missouri." So God changed his mind and decided we would all just settle in Texas. Wake up, stop believing this lie that you know is just a lie.

fttc said...

Warren's works are published but not readily available to the public. I have some of them because I was once "in". I do not have them all. I was never interested enough to get the tapes of his priesthood history although I have heard some of them. He printed a school paper called the Student Star and later changed it to Zion's Light Shining. These were published in book form but printed by a local print shop largely run by the FLDS. There are several other books that he compiled with commentary and put his father's name on them. I would be very suprised if his father even proofed much of what he wrote. At least I know some of the things he wrote were in direct oposition to his father's own earlier testimony.

fttc said...

I understand MIB has some of these available. Perhaps he can post here again and give the info on how to get them?

Right on Woke Up! Let's keep pounding. Maybe someone else will wake up.

Anonymous said...

Hey, I just had a look at the Holy Database Of All Known Gods, and there's no entry for Warren. You don't have to take it on faith though... check it out for yourself!
http://www.godchecker.com/

fttc said...

LOL!!

You have to read the fine print. They don't cover montheistic gods. Since Warren is the "Only True God" this site won't mention him. I was trying to get him listed and ran into this snag.

Anonymous said...

I pray God to bless you, to fill you with the Holy Ghost, and to help you to seek after God with greater faith: I pray that He may help you to put away your sins, and to keep His commandments perfectly, so that you may receive the blessings that He has in store for all the faithful.

fttc said...

I'll take all the prayers for me I can get. Thank you for your kindness!

Men In Black said...

fttc said...
I understand MIB has some of these available. Perhaps he can post here again and give the info on how to get them?

Right on Woke Up! Let's keep pounding. Maybe someone else will wake up.

6/24/2005 10:01 PM

Someone generously transcribed one on Warren's cassettes, the one on Cain & Able, maybe the webmaster can take it and make it available with a link. I'm sure it would make a long and detailed thread of its own, from post discussions on its contents.

If you need to hear the voice over the text alone, some of the cassettes are listed on ebay.

MIB is busy, tweaking another project, little or no time to be supported or dispised here. Busy..busy...busy....

Anonymous said...

We find in the old scriptures a promise like this; "Return unto me and I will return unto you, saith the Lord; Even in the day of your fathers you have gone away from mine ordinances and have not kept them" you have "transgressed the laws, changed the ordinances and broken the everlasting covenant:" now "return unto me and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts" We also find in the scriptures the declaration, that God changeth not, that he is " the same yesterday, today and forever." And we may reasonably infer that if God was a God of revelation hundreds of years ago, he is the same God of revelation to-day, only the people do not inquire of him, they do not seek unto him in the right way that they may obtain communications frrom him. The Apostle James declared, "If any of you lack wisdom, Let him ask of God who giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. " This principle of faith seems to be the means of approaching the Almighty. If we take up the Bible and read how the ancients received revelation, we find that they approached God by faith. And further, we learn that when God communicated anything to them they tried to carry it out in their practice" JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES VOLUME 23 page 158

page 106
" and it shall come to pass, among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor, must needs flee unto Zion for safety. And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another." november 20th 1881


To men in black,
page 221 Journals of discourse
The signers of these petitions knew, and their enemies here knew that the charges constantly heaped up against this people could be proven utterly false if a chance to do so were afforded. But that is just what certain parties did not want, fearing that a thorough investigation conducted by honorable men would defeat their plot against the people.

page 211
With the help of god we can stand all the special ex post facto laws and bills of attainder which congress may pass and the President approve, and we do not expect much sympathy or friendship from the outside either; for we have proven years ago that a man never has fewer friends than when he needs them most, nor more than when he needs them least. Does a knowledge of this fact tend to destroy our confidence in man? No, I think not, but it does tend, by showing how weak and unreliable man is, to increase our trust in God.

mormonssuck said...

if the person who posts the scriptures from warrens book of bullcrap is living at the ranch...i have but one suggestion: go find warren, and hae him send you back toschool. maybe he'll hold your hand while you go. learn to spell. its pathetic really. not toget on the subject of illegal immigration, but some of those people know how to spell better than whoever keeps posting scriptures from the book of mormon warren. you can tell he's a little inbred too...... beady little eyes and a giant forhead. quit marrying you sisters to your cousins and it might stop... maybe.

Anonymous said...

Hey Mormonssuck!

You suck, too! You could use a little spelling punctuation and English yourself! I guess it takes one to know one! Here's one for y'all....tttthhhhbbbbbt! Sound that one out!

Anonymous said...

To Anon 2:36 am
Why do you keep quoting the Journal of Discourses? I bet there are not many of us that care what is in there. If you want to quote something quote what Jesus said or Joseph Smith said.

Anonymous said...

I understand you care not for my religion. If you did you would not be insulting us and my religion.

I will however quote Joeseph for you and he speaks of What Jesus said: " If any person should ask me if I were a Prophet, I should not deny it, as that would give me the lie. for, according to John, the testiony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Therefore, if I profess to be a witness, or a teacher, and have not the spirit of prophecy, which is the testimony of Jesus, I must be a false witness. But, if I be a true teacher and witness, I must possess the spirit of prophecy- and that constitutes a prophet. Any man who says he is a teacher or preacher of righteousness and denies the spirit of prophecy, is a liar , and the truth is nt in him. By this key false teachers and imposters may be detected."

Here is a quote from the bible. This is Jesus talking: ST. LUKE CHAPTER 6 verse 39
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? 40 The disciple is not above his master; but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. 41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

Here is another of Jesus's quotes: ST. LUKE CHAPTER 3 verse 8
Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father; For I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto abraham. 9 And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees; every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 10 And the people asked him, saying, what shall we do then?
11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none: and he that hath meat, let him do likewise. 12 Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
13 And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you. 14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely: and be content with your wages.
15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not:
16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose; He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire; 17 whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable. 18 And many other things in his exhortation preached he unto the people.

Look it up people, the book of morman. The teachings of the Prophet Joeseph, the bible and all the teachings of the prophets in the history of the world is a testiomny of Jesus and what he tought. They are accounts of Gods laws and men that chose to worship God and those that chose to worship unbelieve. And in the end all men go to make an account and testify of the works of thier own hands. In heaven there is not even one accusation. Not one complaint. nOt one aggressor. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. He then put man upon it.

fttc said...

Your qoutes from the words of Joseph and Jesus above are a perfect demonstration of the blindness of the people following Warren. If you could see the truth you would know your quotes apply directly to Warren and condemn him as a true prophet and follower of Christ. Once a people have had the truth and reject it a great darkness settles upon thier minds. Until thier whole soul is filled with darkness. I think you cannot see it yourself, you won't until you let some of the true light of Christ into your heart. But many of us can see it and it is heartbreaking.

Anonymous said...

What is it with you? Do you think your accusing me is going to get you higher into heaven? Do you think that if you prove a man is not liveing the law of Christ and his followers are brainwashed and need dellivered that your accusations mean anything except you can rail and critazise a person for thier believes? What is it you desire great incredable skilled mocker of my church? What would make you happy, short of destroying and critazising someone for their believes? I understand you are searching for fulfilment and are reaching out for some compassion. I will tell you: Joy never was in sin. Joy was never in destroying someone. JOy was never in lies. Joy was never in money. Joy is something a person has to cultivate and build upon their own heart. And to think that you accuse Jesus and Joeseph tells me that you are not interested in peace but are set on trouble. I think God is graciouse to all men. He will deliver up to you the desire of your heart. If it is peace you desire he shall put it upon you. If it is trouble he also will send that. Do not think that I am great like Jesus or JOeseph. I only speak my opinion upon the matter. Is there any thing that brings you joy? I would be interested in hearing that.

Anonymous said...

Ruuuuuuuth!!!! PLEEEEEEEAAAAASE spare us!

Anonymous said...

Ruth, dear. I need to point out that fttc was not criticizing Joseph and Jesus. He/she was merely pointing out that WARREN does not measure up to Jesus' and even Joseph's teachings. If you would look deeper into the scriptures, the condemnation is on Warren, not on the people who don't believe him. This is the scriptures that you yourself insist upon quoting (albeit somewhat disjointedly.)
Read them again, Ruth. REALLY read them and feel what they mean instead of what Warren has twisted them to mean and told you what to believe they mean.

divaqs said...

Ruth, you quoted Joseph Smith:
"If any person should ask me if I were a Prophet, I should not deny it, as that would give me the lie. for, according to John, the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Therefore, if I profess to be a witness, or a teacher, and have not the spirit of prophecy, which is the testimony of Jesus, I must be a false witness. But, if I be a true teacher and witness, I must possess the spirit of prophecy- and that constitutes a prophet. Any man who says he is a teacher or preacher of righteousness and denies the spirit of prophecy, is a liar , and the truth is not in him. By this key false teachers and imposters may be detected."

The key here is "testimony of Jesus". If Warren is bearing real testimony of Jesus, why is there so much emphasis on Warren and not Jesus?
Why do I hear so much about love for Warren and so little about love for Jesus?
Who is worshipped more?
Who do you have the greater testimony for? Why?
If you do truly have the greater testimony and love for Jesus, are you following his teachings?

An example:
Jesus taught us to love and serve everyone, even those who are despised by society. There are lots of examples of this in the scriptures (i.e. publicans, harlots, lepers, etc).
Has Warren taught the same?
Outsiders seem to be seeing lots of examples of just the opposite.... as seen in news reports of "The Lost Boys", Warren's remarks on the "black race", and the tendency of the FLDS members to shun outsiders.

To bear real testimony of Jesus means much more then to profess a belief in Jesus... even the devil can do that....

Any group that feels threatened has a natural tendency to insulate itself and defend its leaders.... even if there are real problems. One exception to this is in the new testament...

Faithful Woman said...

to 6-23 11:15am
Yes warrenites are plundering. There are those who personally contributed enourmous amounts of money and assets who were kicked out and not even allowed to take their equipment with them so as to afford them a means to suport themselves. The reasoning being that these were contributed and not to be taken out of the UEP.
Now the warrenites are moving and liquidating these same assets to supply Warren with means to build his -yes the word is COMPOUND-s.
Sa the other poster who answered this question said, there are dubble standards among the warenite regime, and the Rulon era, and the Barlow era, and yes, even the Uncle Roy era.
If the "leaders" wouldn't keep changing the rules, people other than their own pet followers would be able to advance in "their" realm.
And rumor-has-it, I disagree with you on this point. When Ross was kicked out of church he was told to go talk to Sam Barlow, who incidentally, had no idea of why Ross got kicked out. Sam wanted to know why he hadn't turned in his business to the UEP yet. His was one of the last to be turned in. That sounds like the businesses and buildings are UEP to me. But still, I do agree that none of the vehicles belong to UEP. At least, not since I have known about.

To 6-23 12:00 pm
who asked who wanted to be a trustee.
Those who want to be a trustee I would be very suspicious that they would have ulterior motives in wanting -power- and wouldn't want them to be on the board who governs whether or not I get to live in my house.
Let the best qualified persons be nominated, not by themselves.

To 2-23 9:34
on nutrition and food prep.
Yes sprouted wheat bread is good and good for you, but there still needs to be a LOT of teaching in the health and nutrition at the kitchen and shopping level. Rice, pasta, and potatoes can only go so far with out the fresh fruit and vegies.


Finally, to Long Time Gone and disgusted
It is your type of sugested vigilanti type action that will turn this place into open warfare, not just a cold war. Don't know about you, but I still live here and would way rather indure cold stares than sniper fire.

ATAR_i said...

Nice replies Faithful!

mugwump said...

It is obviously a shame to the FLDS that their leader is facing a jail term should he be located, arrested and tried for the crimes for which he has been indicted.

Will the faithful now look at their circumstances and come to the realization that they have been "snookered" by a charlitan posing as a man of God?

ATAR_i said...

Mug, I know it's easy to get all excited about this topic. But I impress upon you to understand the loss this will be to these people. I think their life would be better in all respects should warren find himself in a place where he lacks control of this group.

Should this indeed come to pass, as I hope it does, neither you nor I will suffer a loss - but they will.

I is becoming obvious that these wounds won't heal with the ousting of this prophet - they are too deep, and too much irreparable damage has been inflicted. The understanding of this will be painful in a way that is unbearable. Anger, vengence, pain, loss, sorrow, grief - these are all experiences we will not have.

I guess my exuberance at his impending ousting is tempered with an understanding of what must follow.

fttc said...

Atar I agree with you here. MY father's family used to be very close. It is large of course but all the brothers and sisters had genuine concern for one another. There is a large generation gap problem with my father and some of us did not agree with him most of the time but we all honored him as a father and got along. Warren has split our family in pieces. I used to think if Warren just went away all would be good again. It has gone on so long now I know it will never be. Those still in will not be able to eat enough crow when this tumbles to rectify the situation. It is really heartbreaking. I can see what they are headed for and would give everything to help them out of it but they do not want the help. They will wake up one day and suffer as you have said.

Anonymous said...

I think the people in charge of appointing trustees should seriously consider letting Winston remain on the board.He has cooperated, gone to Salt Lake when he's been called,and answered all their questions to the best of his ability.If you go over to the Share the Light blog,you will see that there are many of us who feel that he would be the best person to represent us,because he has always been there to help us in any way he could.On behalf of the canadians anyway,Please consider him as trustee!

furnace said...

fttc,

The only thing you can do to help your friends is to live like you did 10 years ago. Let them see that it is them, not you, that has changed. Don't give up on religion and become a druggie or involved in any other vice. Even abstain from alcohol; it's worth it if doing so can help your frieds see that you haven't degraded in their eyes. Don't get full of wrath and seek vengence on Warren. Just live a dignified life until you can do more to help your friends.

rumor-has-it said...

Winston is on the list of trustees and will be voted in. I hope that the land in Canada will be taken out of the UEP Trust or that they will create something different so that they are not connected.

I think that the UEP Trustees should be people that are living on the land and not apart of the hiarchey of the church.

I think that the UEP has filled its purpose and should be done away with. However it is going to be a big job to figure out who has rights to what with all the house shuffling of the last 4 years.

Faithful Woman said...

I give Winston my vote as a UEP trustee also.

So how do we for real get to vote on trustees? Or do we?

fttc said...

Furnace

Thanks for your kind advice. I hope that all young (and old for that matter) people that find themselves cast out of their families will see your advice and heed it. I have already decided that will be the course I pursue. I have never felt like I left anything. It has always been that our people in majority chose to change from all we were ever taught. Warren is the instrument that gave the majority of the people what they wanted. If I can see the changes and differences then surely hundreds of men older than I could see it if they wanted to. As you have come to know, I am sure, having this understanding does not diminish the pain and heartbreak in seeing our people destroy themselves.

Anonymous said...

faithful: I'm only frustrated by the postings of people believing in Warren without question. I'm a pre-Jeffs apostate, so I was around when URoy was in charge. When I was 14-15, I couldn't believe any of the diatribe dished out by the men in charge at that time, so I left. It's hard to understand why people with so much more knowledge and understanding than I had are so wired in to this Warboy guy.

So I would never advocate "vigilante action", but why can't people wake up and smell the coffee? The wrongs committed by Warboy are so obvious to an idiot like me, I just have a hard time understanding why people still bow down to the bulls__it.

The UEP: Its going to be a bitch to get money out of people for property taxes next time around. The people living in those big houses must realize that if they don't pay their upcomintg taxes, not only will Warboy kick them out of their houses, but the new owners who buy the property at tax sales will also.

But its time for the UEP experiment to end. There is really no way for the UEP to keep functioning in any capacity. After all the arguing, titles to properties will be issued. The majority of the new trustees need to be chosen from a pool that does not have an emotional attachment to the land or people. Any first or second warders will have an emotional attachemnt, a marker to square up, or family on one side or the other to take care of.

The main legal reason to set up a trust is not to protect, but to protect AGAINST the redistribution of wealth you are not entitled to, or unjust enrichment. This means that people who have donated land have first dibs if the trust is disolved. The people who have built houses on property they did not donate have dibs to the improvements on the property, but not the land.

The persons or relatives of the people that have donated any land should be compensated for the land their family has donated. One way to do that is to attach leins to the property so that when title transfers, the land lein must be paid off. The easy way is to value all acres at the same rate. The hard way is to assess value based on creek, flat, or hillside property.

In the end, after titles are given, some will stay and pay off their land lein, some will transfer their new title to Warboy, and some will sell and leave.

When I was a kid my Dad would tell me stories of how officials from the Soviet Union came to Utah to study the UEP after WW2. They went back home and set up their socialist republic in much the same way.

So again, the experiment is over.

Long Time Gone

fttc said...

It is a historical fact that Karl Marx studied the United Orders that Brigham Young set up and used them as a pattern for setting up communism in Russia with a big difference. Instead of having God as a moral guide he taught that the party and party leaders were the moral guide (sound familiar? i.e. Warren). I don't remember hearing about them studying Short Creek. Actually the UEP was not set up even as a United Order although many of the big elders in town called it that many times. Can you document the Russians studying it or maybe someone else has more info they can input? Maybe this is a subject for a new thread?

rumor-has-it said...

The "Lost Boys" won their case by default, because no one showed up in defense...each got something like a million dollars claim. But instead of going for the money, they said "Our family and friends are there and I care about them, so we just want to change out the trustees." And Richard Holm etc filed suit so that the land could not be sold, (there was quite a few pieces in escrow.) So it is these two lawsuits that are deciding.

There are eight trustees:
The list included

Winston Blackmore
Carolyn Jessop
Margaret Cook
Richard Holm
Lee Van Dam

Now that I am writing it down, I can't remember the rest

It could change these are the preliminary ones. Everyone has to agree to agree. lol

Anonymous said...

Heaven on Earth: The Rise and Fall of Socialism
by Joshua Muravchik "SOCIALISM WAS THE FAITH IN WHICH I WAS RAISED..." (more)

Pay close attention to the chapter on Harmony, Pensylvania and the Stalin visits to the midwest.

Bottom line : "If you build it, they will leave."

Reader

Anonymous said...

To Rumor Has It
A NOTICE OF INTERESTED PARTIES AND RESPONSE TO PETITIONS was filed in this matter on May 27, 2005 by Richard Jessop Ream, Thomas Samuel Steed, Don Ronald Fischer, Dean Joseph Barlow, Walter Scott Fischer, Richard Gilbert, and Brent Jeffs, proposing the following individuals as trustees: Lee Van Dam accountant
Rayo S. Johnson
Caroline (Carolyn) Jessop
Winston Blackmore
Don Timpson
Roger Williams
Margaret Cook.


A PRIVATE BENEFICIARY PETITIONERS’ NOTICE OF PROPOSED SUBSTITUTE TRUSTEES AND REQUEST FOR PARTIAL REFORMATION OF TRUST was filed in this matter on June 29, 2005 by Richard L. Holm, John W. Nielsen and Merril T. Stubbs, individually, and on behalf of their minor children, proposing the following individuals as trustees: Lee Van Dam; Richard L. Holm; Carolyn Jessop; Winston Blackmore; Don Timpson; Merrill J. Harker; George R. Hammon; Rayo S. Johnson; Roger Williams; and Margaret Cooke.

On July 21, 2005 the Court will conduct a hearing to appoint new trustees. Interested parties can propose trustees by filing a petition with the court 10 days prior to the hearing and provide notice.

rumor-has-it said...

Thanks! That is just what we wanted...Just the facts.

onthestreet said...

SO OFFICIAL, YET SO FICTION!

GBNF said...

Street,
Did you get your own computer? Are the Library's open this late in Phoenix?