Friday, May 27, 2005

Control of UEP stripped from Warren Jeffs

I saw on the Success newsticker that a Utah Judge took control of the UEP away from Warren Jeffs. KSL website says same thing. Wow! First the school, now the UEP. Does WJ have any friends left?

171 comments:

Anonymous said...

It's true! A restraining order was issued giving control of the UEP to a court appointed receiver until a formal hearing on June 6. If Warren doesn't show for that one, he's toast.

Eye Witness said...

Even more news. Success news ticker says that Senate Bill 6, which contains much of Harvey Hilderbran's orignal HB 3006 language, passed and will be signed by Gov. Rick Perry. It's been a bad week for Warren Jeffs.

Anonymous said...

The cash cows will be in somebody else's dairy. Soon, there won't even be any squeaky cheese left.

mugwump said...

The wheels of Justice turn maddeningly slow but.....they do turn.

Suspect fraud? Can't help but wonder just how much more will be discovered. Was YFZ financed by the UEP? If so, will the ranch its buildings and the new temple fall into receivership should fraud be proved?

Anonymous said...

YFZ was not financed by the UEP. The only funds that go to the UEP are those paid in for land taxes. The FLDS paid in mountains of cash for the YFZ and it's improvements. The cash came from the poor milked aphids that live on the UEP. FRAUD! What FRAUD?

Anonymous said...

Sorry for Eldorado,YFZ is not on UEP deed.But HALLELUJAH!!!!We are FREE at LAST!!!Thank God,Jubilation
in C/C Hildale!!!!!!!!!!

Stinger said...

Poor warren. Soon the only friends he will have left will be streety and Ruth. I would say that is quite sad, except I think they deserve each other.

Anonymous said...

Don't worry, next they will start to wonder where David Allred gets all his money.

Anonymous said...

It would be interesting to read the courts ruling. Is it posted somewhere on the net? Does the UEP property include all donated property in Canada, the Harker's farm, the Idaho digs, etc?

To those in CC; if the UEP is controlled by a sane board will you stop shelling out money to fund YFZ because you know you can't be kicked out of your house any more as retribution? I'm sure a lot of the people will still pay up, but what is the general underlying feeling in the community?

Anonymous said...

To anon 11:44

What are the Idaho digs?

Sixteenth Son said...

Too Anon.1200pm.the Idaho property
is the Roundy Ranch.640 acres or so.

Anonymous said...

Why cant we have an elected Board of Trustees.?Anything would be better than the present set up.
This is our town,not Warrens!!!

Anonymous said...

To anon.11:44 read previous anonymous post of 10:24pm That best
expresses C/C Hildale reaction.on my side of town at least.

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:18. Since most of the people in CC/Hildale do exactly as Warren wants, an elected board would look just like it does now. Warren would be at the top with whoever he wanted as elected(appointed) trustees. Just look at the school board. Has anyone from the first ward ever opposed an appointed school board member in any of the elections? Same goes with the Mayor and city council positions for CC/Hildale.

Anon 2:29. All of the 2nd ward is loving this for sure and I know that there are some individuals who believed in URoy and URulon that are completely fed up with Warren, more people like yourself. But is there going to be a groundswell of old URoy and URul people thumbing there noses at Warren and his Bishop now? With the Barlows now gone, is there a leader that people are going to rally around? It will be interesting to see if someone steps up as a leader in the coming months.

Anonymous said...

I will tell you this: My leader is Warren Jeffs. You people can rejoice and mock, and steal and plunder. That does not change who loves him. That does not change anything. God does uphold him. That leaves two that suport him. If God upholds a man, no other Man can stop him. Warren Jeffs did not write the book of morman. In Joeseph's day, they thought if they killed him, God's work would not go on. Today, they thought to re-write the book, and the majority of people were pacified, because they liked sin. God did not change his book. His law has not changed. Granted, you have a right to accept or reject the teachings of Christ, But God did not change his law. There is a consiquence for every choice you make. War is upon the Land. This is as Joeseph spoke. Can you stop it? It was written, in that day, you shall cry peace, peace, and there shall be none. We have always had our leader. WE still do. Nothing is changed. Jesus is still in Controle. Joeseph is still the general. Our Warriors are in place to defend us. It is written, "In that day, a great calamity will come upon the land. Mother will be against daughter. Father against son. Nation against nation, State agaist state. County agaisnt county. Mens hearts will fail them, and they will raise up and kill all around them." Already upon the news, are accounts of men, that do take a gun and kill. Already upon the news, children go into school and shoot people. Already fires, and tornado's, hale have come upon us. It is written, "The sea shall over flow its bounds." We have seen this to some degree. How many of you can say, "YOu have the propmise of Jesus to protect you?" can you find where it is written, "I can sin, and God will take me, and my sins into his kingdom?" It is written, "I the LOrd can not look upon sin with the LEAST DEGREE OF ALOUANCE." I SAY, FIGHT WITH GOD NOW. WE ARE TIRED OF FIGHTING WITH YOU. WE HAVE BEEN SUED IN YOUR COURTS FOR FORTY YEARS. WE HAVE BORNE THE BURRDEN OF A PREDJUDICIAL PEOPLE, AND A DISHONEST GOVERNMENT, FOR FOURTY YEARS. FIGHT WITH GOD NOW. SEE WHAT HE HAS HAD TO SAY. SEE WHAT HE WILL SAY TO YOU NOW. WE ARE TIRED OF YOUR BATTLE. FIGHT WITH HIM. WE DID NOT MAKE THE LAW. HE DID. FIGHT THE WIND AND STORMS AND HALE. FIGHT WITH MIXED UP SEASONS. FIGHT WITH YOUR OWN WHO GO INTO YOUR PLACES TO KILL YOU. FIGHT WITH THE STUDENTS WHO KILL THEM-SELFS IN YOUR BASEMENT. KEEP YOUR WAR, OUT OF OUR GARDEN.

Anonymous said...

"The One Mighty and Strong" is not so mighty or strong or wealthy anymore....

Anonymous said...

It doesn’t matter that Eldorado compound is not on the list of property. This is just a beginning for laying the foundation on charges of “conspiracy to defraud” which is prosecutable under the Ricco Act.
Warren will have to come out of hiding to answer many charges and then he will be served for other offences. If he does not respond, then that is another legal nail in his coffin. Warren and his henchman’s days are numbered.

ATAR_i said...

OH my Lord that is sooooo sad. I guess I never really understood how a people could lose themselves in something so wrong - so unGodly an unHoly. I can now see how Jim Jones, Waco, and Auschwitz happened.

Congratulations to all of those who have realized either on their own, or with help that Warren is a captivating sociopath. Having not been sliding towards that slippery slope, it's difficult to say how well I would have fared if I had been raised in CC. I'd like to think I would not be a zealot without independent thought, mezmerized and controlled by a luncatic because my desire to be good was so strong - I couldn't see his darkness.

Ruth, OTS - would you kill me if Warren asked you to? If I walked into your town to buy a Coca Cola - and Warren said you should kill me, would you? Would you defile me first - if he asked you to?

mugwump said...

I don't claim to speak for many Schleicher County residents but, not being LDS, FLDS or any other offshoot, I believe that God is in control of life situations. Too many events are occurring too rapidly for me to believe otherwise.

God uses man, through divine inspiration, to continue His work on Planet Earth, the redemption of mankind.

If Jeffs is indeed a prophet time will prove it and the laws of Utah, Arizona, Texas or the United Staes will not prevail.

If Jeffs is not whom he claims to be then those statutes will prevail and once again he will demonstrate himself as a false prophet.

Be diligent, patient and in prayer.

ATAR_i said...

Muggy, good show - I like that logic.

onthestreet said...

However, Muggy buggy on Atar roof:
The prevailing of the laws doesn't prove whether a man's a prophet or not, does it. Or Christ would not be Christ, for the laws prevailed against him. It this true?

onthestreet said...

Killing Atar? Not a chance. You're soul is what kills, or something like slipping off a slick, ummm, shall we say, atar roof that's slippery as snot. If you want to trap the saints into being murderers, you fall into your own pit, my lady, and a slippery one at that.

onthestreet said...

"The One Mighty and Strong" is not so mighty or strong or wealthy anymore....
5/28/2005 10:18 AM

STREET's Reply:
Anony-mouse: Ahhh, my child, your information is grossly skewed (or screwed), and you thought the attacks of government would screw them over. You see, all the FLDS records show that "the one mighty and strong" is the Prophet Joseph, and Michael the Archangel is God Almighty. You want might? He will give you that sign, and show you his might. This may well be after some FLDS are in jail or the grave. Just because the government overwhelmed our Redeemer, didn't make him less of a Redeemer. Am I right?

onthestreet said...

Stinger said...
Poor warren. Soon the only friends he will have left will be streety and Ruth. I would say that is quite sad, except I think they deserve each other.
5/27/2005 10:59 PM

STREET's Reply: Oh, I'm afraid you're all "strung" out, Stringer. You see, a Prophet doesn't need the arm of flesh on the street or anywhere else to make him what he is. ONE MAN AND GOD IS THE MAJORITY

onthestreet said...

Oh yes, man can over-rule, and will. But then, what can God do? Did the majority EVER please God, or is God's word true when he said:

"I am not of the world, nor the world in me, for they have rejected me." Am I right? I this word true? Where does that leave you all, rage as you will like demons?

onthestreet said...

Shall I keep going? Yes, I'll give you more.

Anonymous said...

no shut up!!!

onthestreet said...

I AM SAM

Anonymous said...

I knew that onthestreet must be some prophet nut. Way to go prophet street. Get down on the street and do 40 pushups. You might be the one mighty and strong who hasn't been discovered yet.

mugwump said...

thanks atar_i:

Vehicular traffic, pedestrians, and parades often move on-the-street. Out here, the horses usually bring up the rear of the parade. Why? Because of what they leave on-the-street.

Point made!

onthestreet said...

On the street called Straight.

onthestreet said...

“I AM SAM. . .SAM I AM”: You can study it till dooms day (literally), but who can uncover the mystery?
God reveals the mystery to his own. I won’t tell you all that it means, but I’ll tell you what you need:

“Sam” is Cam in Hebrew: Sweet smell, Incense, likeness. Cam-el is the likeness of El (God), or SAM(E). This is Mich-A-El, in the solemn assembly of the saints, Almighty God in the Holy Sanctuary, tiferet or the heart and true self of all things. In the Holy Script we find “Sam-u-el,” “Sam-son”, “Sam-ech”, and many such terms. Take Samuel, for example: “S-A-M” are the three mothers (wives) required for exaltation in the presence of God. So we have Shin (Fire of Creation), Alef (air of acceptance, or Altar of Incense), and Mem (Joyful service in the water and veil to the temple). There you have SAM. The “U” is “V”, the Vav, and the “El” is God with us, in his kingdom on earth. Thus: SAM-U-EL. When you add: “I Am, these are the highest central gates, so when you say: “I AM SAM,” you are saying: “I,” the highest Self or God over us, give through the abyss AM (knowledge of God), to the true self of our being (SAM), which unites the mothers in the holy sanctuary. This is the basis of the true church, and no other church has it. This is the upper face of God on the Tree of Life.

Now, when you reverse it by trying to dictate to God or to his prophet, you are saying it backwards. The true path is: “I AM SAM” (that is: God through his chosen watchman upon the earth, gives or dictates to me through my heart or true self, all things), for “I” is God the high self over us, “AM” is knowledge that we please him by doing unto the least of the prophets what we would do unto God, and “SAM” is the true self. But backwards, we start with ourselves (vox populi), instead of starting with God (vox dei), by saying: SAM I AM, thus literally proclaiming ourselves above God, a serious crime indeed. This is where we are separated from God, his upper face.

Now, this is the reason for the rest of the Dr. Seuss Tale (and God has given us all the ancient “fairy-tales”):
“THAT SAM I AM, THAT SAM I AM, I DO NOT LIKE THAT SAM I AM. So, having dictated to God’s prophet and sought to do him harm, you are now in a fatal situation and hate yourselves (in your soul, if not in your present ego). So, what does God do? He offers you the lower law, his lower face of death, or three gates of the lower face, you having reject him and his higher law, his prophet, his earthly representation, the higher face of life. Says the Lord: “DO YOU LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM.” In the correspondences of the Tree, “Green” is Netzach or Victorious Envy, “Eggs” is Yesod or your seed and all that you produce, and “Ham” is Hod or all your learning and theory, literally Heh-I-Am (odd). In summary, you now are:

1. “Green” with envy, 2. Have “Egg” on your ‘face’, and 3. like “Ham” who was cursed for uncovering the holy father(s) private affairs. The world will soon be heart-sickened to discover that the patriarchs that they have cursed are the very arch-angels, the highest authorities in heaven. Here are those heads of the seven churches, or dispensations:

1. That “fallen god” ADAM is the Archangel Michael (Miykael: “SAM-E or Like God”).
2. That “drunken man” NOAH is the Archangel Gabriel (Gabriyel: “Man of God”).
3. That “polygamist” ABRAHAM is the Archangel Raphael (“God has cured”).
4. That “trouble-maker” MOSES is the Archangel Haniel (Chinniyel: “Favor of God”).
5. That “devil and imposter” JESUS is the Archangel Sandalphon (Ceneh and Pen: “Thorny path or street”).
6. That “Mormon boy rascal” JOSEPH is the Archangel Ratziel (“Remnant of God”).
7. That “sissy” Enoch (who runs and hides) is the Archangel Metatron, the head, which is Grace (Keter)

He and his Son YHVH now come down on Zayin. Thus Zion, and the world ends up with nothing but GREEN EGGS and HAM. But that is just the beginning of their misery, for God taunts you (like someone on the street). In asking you what you want, he is actually telling you the curse that you have brought upon yourselves:



“DO YOULIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM. . . I DO NOT LIKE THEM SAM I AM. . . (too bad): WOULD YOU LIKE THEM HERE, OR THERE. . .WOULD YOU LIKE THEM IN A HOUSE…MOUSE…BOX…FOX:
Again, he’s taunting you about your choice of the lower face: House is Netzach (victory and action against you), Mouse is Hod (the entanglements of your minds), Box is Yesod (the destruction of your seed), and Fox is Malkhut (the battle against principalities and powers and kingdoms, dispatching them to Sheoul or Hell).

This is where the mystery and the true disclosure of your fate begins:

HOUSE is Bayith: Family Court, Dungeon, or Palace. Borboros: Mud, Mire, North Wind.
Kilab: Shank, Restraint of the fathers, desolation. Odunae: Torment. Oikema: Prison

MOUSE is Mus, Maze, Akbar: Attack, Entaglement or your minds, as in a mouse maze.

BOX is Peluggah: Division, Cleaver, Torch, Earthquake (cutting asunder both joint and marrow, all that you produced). Teashshuwr: Box, coffin. Owphiyr: O fear, Orphan.

FOX is Shuwal: Howling (like a fox), Sheoul: Hell. However, in his infinite love, he offers you a final out
Achad: Collect, one and eleven, to unify your all with the prophet, go one way or the other. Your choice.
Alopex: Fox to perplex (all-pex), Cunning person, the Devil is come down to do his final works of destruction, and it will be far more than just terrorism.

There is a lot more in this tale, as you can see: WOULD YOU LIKE THEM (green eggs and ham) IN A CAR. . .
IN A TREE, IN A TRAIN, IN THE DARK, IN THE RAIN, WITH A GOAT, ON A BOAT. . .

TRY THEM, TRY THEM, AND YOU MAY, TRY THEM, AND YOU MAY, I SAY (taunting you to no end).
What God is saying here in gentle, playful, and fatherly tones, is that you WILL, having made that choice, and the only out now is a radical reversal of that choice). This is where it really gets interesting.

I may continue at a later date, and give you the real mysteries, or I may not, for the mysteries are endless. More likely, I will just restrain myself, just as you have been asking me to do. Therefore, “HOW WOULD YOU LIKE THEM?”
The end now comes to you in many heart-wrenching forms.

onthestreet said...

Yes, you horses leave alot on me, street. Well put.

Anonymous said...

ho-hum---who cares? To quote Shakespeare: "Rave on McDuff!!"

Anonymous said...

Administrator:

Is there anyway that you can put "SAM-I AM" "inthestreet" back in his own thread and keep him from interrupting and attemting to dominate a rational exchange of thoughts and ideas? His ranting is becoming tiresome.

ATAR_i said...

All visitors, please leave the psych ward, visiting hours are over.

I'm going now OTS, I probably won't be back to visit you tomorrow, keep Ruth company.

Bye.

Anonymous said...

Admin - I think you are going to have to ban OTS again. He's getting lost in his own lunacy...

Anonymous said...

NO! Please admin, don't shut this blog down. The last time you stopped anon comments, it nearly killed this blog. We know street is a kook, but its worth putting up with him to keep this thing open. He needs help, it is obvious, but don't punish us because of him. Not all of us want to sign up as a regular member. I'm afraid if my name is known my family will be punished.

Anonymous said...

Please Keep the Blog Up!!
You dont know how hard it is for
We Flds anti-Warren folks to find out What is happening.Faithful
Woman,Antique Mormon,and Sixteenth Son have no need of anonymnity,Most
folks know who they are.Me I still
have family in Warrens Camp.Please
dont let Street mess this blog up.
Desperate in hilldale.

captain crab said...

ya'll take this @#$^ seriously don't you?

Stinger said...

I would like to take this moment to apologize to everyone. I am afraid that I was the one who left the link where by streety found his Doctor Suess translations. I should have known better than to let streety find a web site like that.

Anonymous said...

Fruity, have you now resorted to Dr. Suess books to try and make your so called "prophets" teachings justifiable?

NAME

ATAR_i said...

See who street really is - it all makes sense now. And the pingy pangy obsession - was that the real reason you were kicked out?

Anonymous said...

To onthestreet: I happen to know that I could preach to you all day and all night and you wouldn't be unconverted.You need to realize that all your preaching is never going to convert any of us either.Go beleive your religion and follow your prophet,but don't try to cram that stuff down our throats because we don't want to hear it.Many of us have already been there and seen what that life has to offer.I believe that heaven will be whatever we make it,and if that's the case I'd much rather have my heaven than yours.

Faithful Woman said...

Rumor is that David Steed had words with warren and made warren really pi****

Anonymous said...

so is David Steed the next to go?
or are we still looking tward the Alvin Barlow house hold?

Faithful Woman said...

desperate in hildale
profile does not show any more than what you just posted about yourself

Anonymous said...

whats up with david steed? what all is being said?

Anonymous said...

To Stinger, Atar_i, GBNF, Mugwump, rayj, etal:
Have you not noticed that comments about or resposes to Onthestreet just prompt more bad behavior on his part? I believe we would be better off if everyone just ignores him. Don't direct any comments his way. Don't answer any of his.

Now that I've got that off my chest, I'll take my own advice and not mention it again.

Thank you. I'll go back to lurking now.

Stinger said...

You can only ignore a mosquito for so long before you want to reach out and slap it. Even though 9 times out of 10 you will chase it around the room and eventually lose sight of it. The only way to get rid of mosquitos is to put up screens that they can't get through, use mosquito repelent and bug spray, and slap the buggers when ever you can.

Anonymous said...

To mugwump 5-28, 12:20

TIME has always been on the side of God's servents. Warren has said for over 10 years that "the time is up." but yet it still comes. He does not like time, it has always scrwed up his plans.

onthestreet said...

Ten years is What, if one day is a thousand years? Get it? Just because there is a merciful God who warns you about the shortness of the time to prod you and jive you into better living, to prepare you for a better heaven, is no intelligent reason to defy him, or call his warnings of no effect. Besides, ten years or so ago, what happened. Then end came for many of us. Prophecy fulfilled.

onthestreet said...

The end came, see? How do you tell a true prophet? His prophecies come to pass. It came to pass. He was speaking to us, the FLDS, and LOOK: Hundreds of "Lost Boys" etc.

A true prophet indeed.

Anonymous said...

the meek shall inherit the earth

will the meek know what to do once they get it?

keep sweet eldorado
stg

Anonymous said...

So if the end came for them why are they still alive. Doesent the end of the world mean the destruction of the wicked. "God loves them so much he will take them in death to give them some degree of salvation, and to end there wicked doings on the earth."

Paladin for Truth said...

Let streety keep talking, since we all know that the law enforment people are reading everything that is posted here and Warren is a huge coward and won't come talk for himself, I guess the world can know Warren according to OTS, Damn, I am starting to feel bad for Warren, almost.

mugwump said...

Anonymous 5/28 @ 12:20

Wonderful observation.

Thank You.

Sixteenth Son said...

Mugwump,you and Paladin show the
most good sense occaisionally,I
sincerely hope some law enforcement,somewhere,is reading
OTS's postings here.I doubt Warren knows or cares,that this blog-site exists.Some one on Aimoo-site speculated that OTS is Warren,But I know from many years of sad experience.Warren says one thing in private,another in public.Taunting,Mocking Confrontational is OTS style,Warren
is Politeness,Sweetness too your face,and knife in your back,as soon
as he gets what he wants from you.Many can testify to that effect.how many blogers on this site have ever spoken directly with Warren?I certainly don't think OTS ever has.I also personally know that David Allred is Warrens mouthpiece
not OTS.So by all means let OTS keep yaking.

Anonymous said...

This goes out to the Poster "Desperate In Hilldale"
I have pretty good idea who you are.Dont be scared.You can use our computer to lurk any time you want.Hubby-Dear wont find out.
Abg. know who I am?

Faithful Woman said...

sixteenth son
you are so right about how warren works. I've seen it over and over again.
Yeah, I've talked to warren in person, in private even. As long as he thought I was meek and humble and had beautiful children, he was all encouraging and suportive. When he saw me as a woman with a mission, he had no more to say to me, couldn't get rid of me fast enough.

Anonymous said...

I dont know about any of you folks, but as a bystander, I am extremely concerned about a STATE government that is allowed to go in and overtake a trust like they have. Dont you know how the government works? If they can do it that trust, then they can do it to any other trust. And dont think for a second that they wont.

I am part owner in a corperation that is set up under a trust, and as a profitable business owner, I am VERY concerned. It seems that each day our freedoms dwindle little by little.

Yes, I agree that something should be done about what is happening to the people of Colorado City and Hildale, but it should be done by those people, and not by the STATE!! While our attention is focused on that one little town in Arizona, the government is slowly taking our freedoms away from the rest of us.

ATAR_i said...

The state only steps in when it has to. If you don't want them to step in - do it yourself. Step up to the plate, make some changes, change the status quo. Don't allow the individuals who have not upheld their duties as administrators, law enforcment, overseers to continue to have power.

Like a parent who neglects a child. When the neighbors finally cannot stand to see his bloated malnourished body any more - they will call the STATE to come in and help (thank God). The parent can:

1. make excuses, never accept responsibility, not make changes, and probably not get their child back - this is NOT optimal, but necessary.

2. accept responsibility, make changes, learn how to do their job better and get their child back - this is OPTIMAL for all concerned - everyone wants this outcome. But you have to WORK for this one.

(I only use children because the situation is so easy to wrap your hands around - we're talking about city administration here - not children - I understand that).

Anonymous said...

Let me say at the start I am not very knowledgeable about trusts. With that in mind I hope you can help. I don't see from what I am hearing that the state has just stepped in to seize a trust without evidence and without complaints from people who have been hurt by this trust. The laws were not changed or abrogated to allow the state to do this. Or am I missing something? If your trust is managed according to the law I don't see you are in any great danger. On the other hand I can agree with you about our liberties. The problem here is that somehow Warren needs to be checked. He is using up the resources of this trust to accomplish his fraud and deceit. If this is the wrong way to go about it what do you suggest? You mentioned it needs to be done by the people and I agree. This may be the very thing the people need to get them out of the clutches of a tyrant-man-god-gone-mad.

Anonymous said...

Warren could care less about the UEP. He gets very little money from the trust because for the last 3 years he has set up so many LLP's he personally controls that the Trust has nothing to do with. The little elves make sure they tithe more now than before so that Warren has a constant flow of money. That is why the pilot could not see any decrease in activity at the compound. Don’t think for one minute that seizing the Trust will affect the compound in Texas, it won’t.

Anonymous said...

Every person that lives upon U. E. P. property, is living upon Warren Jeffs land. To the person that is concerned about the trust. You are right, if the state can take over a persons trust, than the trust in the state is gone. All these people who are screaming about the land, and being cheated, have never owned the land. They knew this in the beginning. Every person that is allowed to build here, know that this is a church organisation, Held in trust, by Warren and others, and that all they donate in tithing is not refundable. We will not lose our land. These rules are hung up in great big letters in our church building. Every soul, that builds here knew, with out any deciet, that this is the way it is.

Anonymous said...

And besides, on the june trial, he could just declare a mis-trial. Miss this one. Miss that one. Play your little game with out him.

Anonymous said...

I think we struck a nerve!

Faithful Woman said...

UEP warren jeffs land?

BULL! warren never added anything to this land.
This land was donated by community founders for their children, for the good of the community. It was put into a trust for those who had not the financial strength to fend for themselves, put in the trust so that there could be no morgages against it and the people couldn't loose their homes to the banks.
It was not ment to be a death trap, just a pillar to lean on in times of need. And at the time the trust was created the people were very poor as to the comforts of modern life. Just like the government aid programs, they are ment to help when hard times come, not to totally support all the time.
I swear Ruth, what you think you know would do a world of hurt if you had any power.

Anonymous said...

Jesus holds the power. This land was set up for the protection of the inacent. God will protect the inacent. I would ask, "are you one of the inacent." Jesus is the only one with the real power. He will call forth the rightouse. ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Can you depend on him for protection. You then have nothing to fear.

Anonymous said...

To 10:36 A.M. Poster:

The assistant attorney general handling the case referenced in the recent court hearing stated that the Utah Supreme Court's decision (Stubbs v. UEP) declaring the UEP to be a private trust, is a binding decision governing trustee actions. That means that Warren Jeffs and any other trustee performing official acts for the trust must act in a fiduciary manner for the exclusive benefit of the beneficiaries. Any conversion of trust assets must be in their best interest. Considering this to be the case, which it in fact is, taking away a man's specific beneficial interest (his home) would not be considered in his best interest in a private trust and religious arguments to justify such taking will not be allowed.

The Plaintiff's (Stubbs v. UEP) of course were well aware of the Utah Supreme Court's decision declaring the UEP to be a private (non charitable) trust and supported that ruling as the Defendant's appealed to the Tenth Circuit and then to the United States Supreme Court, both of which ended up supporting the Utah Supreme Court's decision. It was sent back down to Judge Eve's (the trial court) to correct his ruling and issue a new order that the Trust was a private trust and not a religious charity. Judge Eve's did nothing but affirm his original ruling (and probably should have lost his judgeship), while the Defendant's continued to amend the Trust to correct their legal Faux pass. In the mean time, the Plaintiff's, after thirteen years of protracted litigation in Federal and State court, were tired and decided not to pursue the case further, so we simply accepted the Unjust Enrichment win and gave up. This does not change the ruling of the Utah Supreme Court, or its decision declaring the UEP Trust to be a private trust, in any way.

Now, the Utah Supreme Court's decision that the UEP is in fact a private trust, is now being considered as still binding, and all of the after-the-fact changes and amendments notwithstanding, are but mere nullity's and therefore voidable. This means that every eviction and taking (without compensation) by a trustee, of a beneficiaries interest, is a violation of statutory fiduciary obligation and is therefore a criminal act.

The Attorney General considers he has legal justification to petition the court to appoint a receiver to administer the Trust in the interest of the beneficiaries. Obviously converting a private trust's assets for the personal benefit of a controlling party (Warren Jeffs) is a definite no no and is subject to prosecution for a variety of felony charges.

This clearly shows why the Attorney General has not only legal standing to act, but must act to protect the rights of the beneficiaries in this private trust--All religious justification to deprive members of their rightful claim to their homes and property is not upheld by the Utah Supreme Court and the Appellate Courts of the United States and will not stand legal scrutiny. Therefore, the beneficiaries must be protected in their rights.

Now you know thw rest of the story . . .

Anonymous said...

Very well done, Anon 12:20!

You must be a lawyer.

Are you involved in the case?

Anonymous said...

And I supose the state is prepared to feed them, too. Is the state willing then to pay the tax. Is the state prepared to pave our roads, and to do all that Warren Jeffs has done for us. No matter how you look at it, If it is a private trust. The state has no bussiness interfering with a persons private deals. If it is a church organisation, the state has no business, to interfer. All that have left our land has done so willingly. All that have remained are still in there houses.

Anonymous said...

Yea, I just bet Warren drives a maintainer for your roads. Has he ever done any manual labor in his life? I bet not...

fttc said...

2:15 PM

Your thinking is beyond belief. Do you really believe that it was at Warren's behest even that roads in CC or Hildale have been paved? It was local taxes and government grants that paved those roads. The funds did not come from the UEP or Warren. Wake up man! As for feeding the families again it is not Warren providing food stamps and WIC for your children. The governmnet is already feeding them.
Although most who have left are glad they are not in the mess they were to say that they left willingly is stretching the truth pretty far. You are a good example of the mindset following Warren.

Sixteenth Son said...

Warren ever do a days work?LOL!!!
I can tell that question didnt come
from an Flds!!!!Believe me the closest Warren ever came to work was taking credit for some body else's.
Of course I guess you might consider kissing-to Father,Uncle Marion,or Uncle Guy work.But I don't.

Anonymous said...

Hello Americans! Stand by for NEWS!

Even though control of the UEP has been stripped from Warren, control of the people is still firmly in his power. He continues to evict people from their homes by telling them to "repent from afar." And they leave, because they still think he has the keys to heaven and hell. Well, I'll agree with the keys to hell part, but that's editorializing. I'll get back to the facts.

In the last few days, he sent away a man who is over 70 and has saved his entire life to build his dream home. He finally got it built in the last three years and now that it is finished, he is no longer of use to Warren.

And now he can quietly move someone else in to that home who has purchased more favor from him.

Maybe the authorities don't know it, but they can take the authority from Warren, but they can't take the "intellectual property" in the way of the people from him. So until they forbid him from putting people INTO homes, they cannot keep him from kicking people OUT of homes. Because there is no way he is going to let a home be vacated or inhabited by someone not in his control, so he is more likely to stop evicting people if he can't use the property himself.

Is there anybody out there who can get this info into the proper hands? Warren will continue to terrorize the Creek until he can't use the property to reward his chosen.

The man he just evicted was stripped of most of his family except one unworthy wife. He has had a heart attack and having everything that he has ever worked and live for is most likely going to kill him.

Anonymous said...

Sorry about the grammar above. To edit the copy, what I meant in the last sentence was, having everything that he has every worked and lived for TAKEN AWAY is most likely going to kill him.

Anonymous said...

Still screwed up the grammar..

Anonymous said...

Why don't you uneducated folks purchase or go to a library and get Ben Bistlines "The Polgyamist of Colorado City" book. You would be an informed person on the United Effort Trust Plan and would get to know the cast of characters.

You would learn how Short Creek was developed and how the current prophet was not properly called to his office of "God's voice on earth."

You would even find out about 2nd Warders (Centennial Park) and how their leader Hammon was snookered out his land.

You could also familiar yourselves with all the underhanded business dealing some of the faithful FLDS folks can conjure up and still are for that matter. You can watch for the danger signals, Eldorado.

Warren is just an amateur compared to what other's did in the past. He had some good teachers on underhandness!
Just Google....Ben Bistline.

Anonymous said...

Been there done that- we are not all uneducated about the FLDS. I bet Atar_i could trace the DNA of the entire cult. You may find out that you come from people who like "Pingy Pany Music". I know for a fact that OTS is.

Sixteenth Son said...

To hello americans,"Is there any body out there who can get this info into the proper hands"We myself and others are trying to get the info.
you mentioned into the hands of the rank and file ,You have to understand
the mindset of Flds,They simply have been taught "Follow the Prophet"for so many years,they will
not beleive the Facts.My own Father
wouldnt believe the facts.Now where is he?I saw as far back as the mid 90's what Warren was up to.I also saw all the stuff Ben Bistline is talking about happen.I say this with shame,because I'm not proud of the role my family played in the
Cenntenial Park episode,

ATAR_i said...

Actually Anon, I think a good DNA project is in order. I like what mormon anthropologist Thomas Murphy already did on DNA testing of the Native Americans.

Barlow Family Tree DNA Project

Anonymous said...

16th son:
I wasn't talking about getting the info to the followers of WJ--I meant the new authorities of the trust. If they can prevent all the house-switching and moving people into the eviction victims' homes, then there will be fewer evictions. I know from experience that you cannot tell the "followers" anything at all. They are trained to not think. I can't even talk to my own family members who are still there about this.

rayj said...

to 10:36
Just to clarify a little, perhaps you didn't know of all happenings around you. A Mr. Johnson of 82 years was asked to take his family and move out because he was corroborating with his sons. It was January 20th and still quite chilly, with nowhere to go and no plans to go, (he helped buy the property years ago) He determinedly said "I don't think so"! We simply need more people who have had enough to stand up and say "I don't think so!"
This is still america, and a trust is only a trust if it is still under the umbrella of a trust agreement. There are certain requirements that must be met and one is to have trustees meet, take minutes, and record with the State any changes made. And realize also that a Corporation Sole is not the same as the original trust. (Just a thought)

Anonymous said...

Man cannot live on stress alone!!!

Disputin said...

All i can say is, it's about freakin' time.

sixteenth son said...

rayj,Not Uncle Spencer?oh god,This
makes me sick.
To anonymos 1203.I 'sorry I missundertood you.You seem to know
what your doing,Go to friend.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Uncle Spencer. However, he was guilty of a very, Very, VERY serious crime--he rode in the same vehicle as Winston Blackmore before being asked to leave. However, he stood his ground, and I am proud of him for it.

Anonymous said...

Sixteenth son. Uncle Spencer was visited by Willie T. and one other big guy, and he was told to move out. He told them he wasn't going to and that they should move out.

Some way to treat the pioneers isn't it? The other pioneers should start to worry. Let's see--Joe S. Jessop, Dan Jessop, Orval Johnson, Lawrence Steed, the rest of the old Barlow boys,--all those guys better start worrying about how to be "happy and humble" and of course single and lonely. The big guy is after you.

ATAR_i said...

Sounds like Uncle Spencer lay across the path of warren. I hope more are willing to lay by his side, and faithful woman's and Winstons?

Please know that I am fully looking forward to FLDS taking back the things that were stolen from them. Looking forward to them standing across the path of warren and saying 'no more'.

Salty is as good as sweet (it just tastes a little different - and you need both) - let's see a little salt!

Sixteenth Son said...

Atar-i,I dont want eveyone to think I am another OTS,but I am afraid if I could get ahold of WARREN,at this minute ,some-one would get Blood-atoned and it Wouldnt be ME.Sorry to freak the Texans out.But Uncle Spencer was
such a kind gentle old man.God,this
make me sick.Sixteenth Son.

fttc said...

Did Uncle Spencer's family stand by him?

ATAR_i said...

16th Son : ( - it's just too sad.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Uncle Spencer's family stood by him.

Anonymous said...

Hey, what's going on? I thought the Utah judge took the UEP and it's assets out of Warrren's control. Two weeks ago a rooming building was moved from across the street from the old school. This week the big building in Hildale Kelly was using to build log homes out of dissappeared (I heard literally overnight). It looks like the chicken coop will be next. I've seen welding at the sight and all the windows are taken out(Just like Kelly's building).... I'll look again in the morning.

View from the Creek

Anonymous said...

It looks like Warren is still raping the UEP of its assets. The receiver needs to be notified that not only real property is at stake here--the improvements on the property are also being ripped off and moved away.

The receiver needs to take inventory now and post deputy's to stop the theft of trust assests bdfore Warren raises the town and moves it to Texas. HELP!

Anonymous said...

Sixteenth Son was the big dude with Bishop Timpson, Willy the Enforcer! One of Warren body guards?

Anonymous said...

No!!!Sixteenth Son is a B*RL*W!!!
Not One of goon squad!!!A "lost boy"no doubt Read his posts since he started.Sorry sixteen,didnt mean to blow your cover,but sixteen has not posted any pro-Warren stuff.

Anonymous said...

I would like to have my only crime be riding in the same vehicle with Winston, when I get to the other side.

GBNF said...

To 5/31/2005 7:32 PM:
Are you speaking of Howard Meldrum, or Alma Barlow?

Anonymous said...

To Anon 8:52. ((Sixteenth Son was the big dude with Bishop Timpson, Willy the Enforcer! One of Warren body guards?))

This is a question, not a statement. Just imagine there is a comma after Son.

You are wound a little too tight don't you think?

Anonymous said...

I read it as a question to 16th son. Though it was rayj who should have been asked the question since he is the one who told the story of elderly Johnson's attempted eviction.

The big guy with willy t. was a shapley boy who incidentally didn't like that job.

Anonymous said...

Hello, Everyone!

Why is everyone feeling so bad for all who have been evicted? If you think about it, it is really a gift, not a curse. The ones who have been "corrected" are by and large the most talented and brilliant cream of the crop! They have everything they need to survive, (even thrive!) in today's world. So what if they "lost everything" to Warren? It was their choice in the first place! Millions of people choose to "lose everything" in the stock market every year, and nobody is bringing in the DA on that! I say, BIG DEAL!

If you choose to leave the "Crick" when you are "corrected", gather up what you have left and make the most of it! If you choose to stay, then I say I'm sorry for you. Nothing is worse than living in a society that you dont fit into. (When in Rome, ya know....)

Look at what the Japanese did after WW II. They had "nothing" left after the war, and today they are one of the most advanced and wealthy countries in the world.

I say these people should simply do the same! I just want to encourage anyone that is scared that they will "lose all" to hang in there, and just be yourself! If you retain your ability to think for yourself, you have all that you need to have a wonderful life! Living in fear totally sucks. At least the people who get "corrected" dont have that to live with that fear! See! I told you it was a gift!

I should know! I'm the

"New Kid on the Blog"!

Sixteenth Son said...

"So whatif they lost everything too
Warren it was their choice in the first place"Bull***!!!WE WERE Born in this *****MESS!!!

Anonymous said...

I can't imagine how anyone who ever knew Uncle Spencer could have made themselves go tell that man that he had to leave his home of some at least 65 years. If the big boy was a Shapley and he didn't like the job, good on him, but he should not have gone and done it.

They should form a hockey team of big stupid fellows who will fight anyone, even tender old sweet men just cause the godfather gets the wrong kind of pizza. Way to go captain Willie!

Anonymous said...

GBNF:
I was referring to Howard Meldrum. Was Alma Barlow kicked out too? Gee--Warren sure knows how to kill a fella. Or at least shorten their lives by a coupla decades.

Inside_Out said...

Mention of the dissapearing buildings.

http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050602/NEWS01/506020316/1002

Anonymous said...

Sixteenth Son,

I am sorry that you feel so bad about your circumstances. What is your situation? Have you lost your family? Please tell us a little bit about yourself. You dont have to go into great detail and give yourself away, I just want to know where you're coming from, Ok? I will explain why I ask later..

New Kid on the Blog

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
To Anon 8:52. ((Sixteenth Son was the big dude with Bishop Timpson, Willy the Enforcer! One of Warren body guards?))

This is a question, not a statement. Just imagine there is a comma after Son.

You are wound a little too tight don't you think?

6/1/2005 10:33 PM


SORRY,...SIXTEEN SON... I AM THE ANONYMOUS WHO POSTED THE QUESTION IN A HURRY! WILL BE CAREFUL NEXT TIME WITH MY COMMAS,,,,,,,,,!

Inside_Out said...

"No one is in control of your happiness but you;
therefore, you have the power to change anything
about yourself or your life that you want to change."
-Barbara DeAngelis

Someone sent me this quote this morning- I thought I would pass it along- Have a wonderful day!

Anonymous said...

Sixteen,I am the Aonymous fool who
posted the ignorant post of8;52pm.I
misundertood the previous post,I sure hope I havent
caused you any grief.If you are a B*RL*W Please write me at brbarl@yahoo.com because I am a B*RL*W too!!!And I will be glad to
help you out in any way I can.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous to Street
Street said "You see, all the FLDS records show that "the one mighty and strong" is the Prophet Joseph, and Michael the Archangel is God Almighty."

Question Street Why does God have to pretend he is Michael, Archangel. I guess God pretends to be Lucifer also?
Just wondering?

Anonymous said...

I just downloaded the search warrant documents from the Success website. VERY interesting reading. It's a long download, so be patient. They also have the court filings in the UEP case.

Find here: http://www.myeldorado.net/YFZ%20Pages/YFZMenu.html

GBNF said...

To 6/2/2005 10:31 AM,
I hear he got Howard, Alma, and Alma's son Curtis. I wonder if he could have picked more mild mannered fellers? I think God must be looking out for them and gave them a chance at life without Warren. I just hope they realize it as a blessing not a curse!

Anonymous said...

"Count your blessings, name them one by one, count your many blessings, see what God has done"

Anonymous said...

you should have seen all the activity going on at Orson Black's house, he just got demoted to a crappier house (if that is even possible) by the college the news guy got footage and everything

Anonymous said...

So what are all these old guys that are getting the boot doing wrong? Just the kind of people they are, I can't imagine them going around town stirring up trouble or inciting riots against Warboy. Is Warboy trying to get rid of everyone who remembers URoy's or how things were in the good ole' days? Or is he video taping the faces of people in meetings when he dreams up another revy (revelation)...anyone with a "what the f___ is he saying" look on their face goes on the list to get booted?

Are the only one's who get to stay the ones nodding their heads slowly up and down saying "Yes massa, yes massa"?

Anonymous said...

He acually has no use for decent honest people. (Birds of a feather?)There's probably only one who can measure up!

Men In Black said...

The issue of the trust being seized needs clarity. If you go back aways, the faithful like Charles Zitting consecrated his wealth to this effort, Joseph Zitting got a lot, but not all of it. Then after the National Land Corporation defrauded others out of their assets, more was added. The Tithing? Wasted monies on the Stubbs vs Jeffs case, what was it $6,000,000. Warren did not earn it, but his influence was good at spending it. Rulon kept the ink black and today it needs Warren's brother Leroy to do what Rulon once did from a bookkeeping point of view.

As for the states control, that is fairly simple. New temporary trustees are being recruited from within or from former FLDS members. Their power is limited as they must take decisions before a judge. In theory, those still with homes or those willing to claim homes they built, could buy the land beneath what they built. It may be based on current market value of bare land or the value at the time of the original construction. Either way its about self determination and idle rumors that teach the faithful to fear change, is Warren's remaining power over those ousted. In theory again, if you own it, you can sell it! You could one day see gentiles living amongst you! A scary thought I'm sure! The UEP revised would gain income from lands sold, which would generate cash flow or operational capitol. Taxes existed before and will again.

A bigger problem is those not living in a home they built, but who now want to lay claim to that construction value. If you can't afford the tax on a huge structure, sell it and buy in Hurricane, its not a bad town, I lived there 10 years. The other problem is the old bond issues like that of the powerplant. A new buyer would have to assume that city debt from a prior poor judgement, as long as the city still exists.

Right now a "Bed & Breakfast" could turn a huge profit, if an x or ousted member had a strong business sense. Its a time for opportunities for those who do not fear change. Rumors only serve those that remain loyal to the old regime. Look at Iraq today and the struggle of one group losing control, while another is granted equality. Its not about the outside world vs the FLDS, but rather an abuse of power between classes within the same faith. The Short Creek Raid pitted the faithful against the government. The abuse today has been between those taking vs giving orders. However you feel about Lenore, the issue's with her daughter and a consent which compelled her to break the law and to chose between that or eviction, began as my issue 5 years ago. It was not about society fighting Warren, but a question of Human Rights in a country of laws and civil rights. An eviction or give us your daughter, is not a religious protection under the law. If that is what Warren or others desire, they should try it in Iraq or Iran!

Open up your community to outside investors and you will see a change in your economy. Embrace the change!

Polygamy will not end with Warren, but in his absense human rights may begin.


JB

concerned canadian said...

If anyone is interested Sixteenth Son was a really Good example of the situation of Warrens victims.His Father was ordered out
last janurary,his mom and sisters
re-assigned,He doesnt know where.they are.He has been living here
with us some Canadian lost boys in
Creston.He really flipped out when he read ray-j post about,Uncle Spencer.Uncle Spencer was his Grandpa.His dad is supposed to be
repenting in st.george.He is o.k.now I am posting this so people will not worry.Please pray

concerned canadian said...

If anyone is interested Sixteenth Son was a really Good example of the situation of Warrens victims.His Father was ordered out
last janurary,his mom and sisters
re-assigned,He doesnt know where.they are.He has been living here
with us some Canadian lost boys in
Creston.He really flipped out when he read ray-j post about,Uncle Spencer.Uncle Spencer was his Grandpa.His dad is supposed to be
repenting in st.george.He is o.k.now I am posting this so people will not worry.Please pray

concerned and mad canadian said...

Sorry didnt mean to hit publish twice,but its about time some gov.stepped in.Sixteenth Son is areally great kid.On how many levels was this boy been victimized.I also want to say
to his Dad."You are Sad Cowardly
pathetic excuse for a Father.You dont deserve this fine son.You sorry old B******!!!!"

Madder and more concerned canadian said...

Too you Sick Sorry old Baboons,supposedly repenting in St.George.You KNEW for years this
pedophile,who has DESTROYED your families,was a power mad,utterly
ruthless LUNATIC!!!!IF ANY ONE OF YOU HAD OF DENOUNCED THIS MONSTER
sHOWN ANY of the Courage that Uncle Spencer,showed.This tyrant
would not have Arisen.I'll tell
you old Baboons something,You will never see the Celestial Kingdom,You
used to prattle about!!!You will go
down in INFAMY and SHAME!!!No man can claim the title "FATHER''and behave the way you have!!!I fervantly hope some one will see this blog.and tell you what Ive said.

Anonymous said...

Many, Many people had hoped that when the Barlows were booted in January, they would stand up to Warren and things would change. Many hoped that the Barlows would have given Uncle Fred the support he needed to stop the maddness of Warren. But no, the Barlows are yellow and cowardly while they lay in the tall weeds, hiding, alone.

Anonymous said...

Jay, the truth of the matter is that we have always had gentiles among us. We have had more of them than ever saints. They used to cut people off of the LDS church for not obeying the word of wisdom. If you went into CC and measured the people by the word of wisdom there wouldn't be enough saints to turn on the power let alone pay the bill. Alcohol! The FLDS presidency were next to alcoholics. The boys out in the weeds have the same problem with their prez. Give the old boys a few shots of the best and they can get visions faster than the town drunk. Coffee and hot drinks! No one drinks coffee in that town! Right!
The point is this. Who out there aren't gentiles already? Follow some of them on vacation. Say to Hawaii. If you did you would find that his wife is someone else's, his drink is alcohol, his ticket was bought on someone else's credit card, and he has an awful sunburn on his bright shining white bare chest and legs. Oh yea, the wife he is sporting that was the wife of his brother, has a sunburn all around her bikini. Saints Hell!

Men In Black said...

Ye who controls the women young or old, controls the men brave or cowardly! A religion design well if dictatorial leadership is what was desired in the one man rule. Like others with my limited knowledge, I believed the Barlows would stand up to Warren near the time of Rulon's death. The reality was that the women believed and the assets were under the control of both Warren & LeRoy after the 1998 change in the trust.

A more interesting question to me, is Rulon had how many children, was it 65? If Warren & LeRoy control Rulon's assets, then 63 or so others were cheated out of their inheretance. If some are now apostates and the Texas property has not been attached in the freeze of assets, it is then prime for ousted family members to address it as misused inheretance.

The prophet may control the women, but take all of the wealth away from Warren and he is just a man trying to figure out how to take care of dozens of wives and 100 children. Without his wealth he becomes the incarnation of Thomas Green!

Anonymous said...

concerned canadian said...
If anyone is interested Sixteenth Son was a really Good example of the situation of Warrens victims.His Father was ordered out
last janurary,his mom and sisters
re-assigned,He doesnt know where.they are.He has been living here
with us some Canadian lost boys in
Creston.He really flipped out when he read ray-j post about,Uncle Spencer.Uncle Spencer was his Grandpa.His dad is supposed to be
repenting in st.george.He is o.k.now I am posting this so people will not worry.Please pray

6/3/2005 4:48 AM

Dear Concern Canadian:

Check out all the legal notices On YFZ Ranch page on myeldorado.net. Hope you have a good printer.

Seems like a Rayo S. Johnson, age 83, is on a list of propective trustees of UEP. Seems like Mr. Johnson isn't taking it anymore. Filed in court on May 26, 2005.

Others on the petition for appointment of new trustees are
Lee Van Dam, of Salt Lake
Caroline Jessop of Salt Lake
Winston Blackmore, Bountiful, British Columbia
Don Timpson, Centennial Park
Rodger Williams, Centennial Park
and Margaret Cook of Salt Lake.

Anonymous said...

You can't fault the FLDS for the Word of Wisdom thing. Originally, it was issued as guidance, "not by commandment or restraint", and it was not until after the FLDS broke away that the LDS church accepted it as a commandment.

On the other hand, when a Prophet issues "guidance", won't the faithful follow it anyhow?

Men In Black said...

The events of the weekend where by Warren has ordered the faithful to dismantle and move buildings and structures out of Colorado City/Hildale, defy the courts order, is troubling. Where any leader can excuse the law, ignore it, defy it and rely on self law as though its God's law, raises serious questions of stability. If backed into a corner because Warren simply believes his law is the only law that matters, to what extreme can a confrontation be predicted and expected?

Using the Old Testament to defend a faith, could suggests that stoning and other enforcements might hold equal justification to polygamy and other old articles of faith taken literally. From Thomas Green, to Thomas Sliwinski, to Brian Mitchell and on to Wesson below, each man believed in his faith and was willing to violate the law for it. While the belief was not so extreme under Uncle Roy, it has evolved under Warren and is evolving, with no one from within willing to risk his authority. Wesson was responsible for 9 deaths, how many will be on Warren's hands?

Torres conceded the sex charges, saying Wesson "is a flawed man" who believes in the Old Testament of the Bible regarding polygamy. Wesson, 58, is charged with nine counts of murder and 14 counts of rape, oral copulation and continuous sexual abuse of a minor.
If convicted of at least two murders, he could get the death penalty.
Wesson has pleaded not guilty.
Since the start of testimony on March 3, Gamoian has contended that Wesson shot his children during an 80-minute police standoff.
Each of the victims was fatally shot in the eye.
If Wesson wasn't the shooter, Gamoian told jurors Thursday, he should be convicted under the theory of aiding and abetting because "he directed Sebhrenah to systematically kill the children."
At minimum, Gamoian said, Wesson is liable for the murders because he was a co-conspirator in a murder-suicide plot that he for years had preached to his family.
Gamoian bristled at the defense theory that identified Sebhrenah as the mass murderer.
Noting that Wesson is accused of raping Sebhrenah, Gamoian said: "Don't let him rape Sebhrenah one last time by laying it off on her."
DNA evidence has proved that Wesson was the father of the slain children. The mothers include his wife, Elizabeth, daughters Kiani and Sebhrenah, and nieces Rosa and Sofina Solorio and Ruby Ortiz.
The slayings were sparked when Sofina Solorio and Ortiz tried to reclaim their children from Marcus Wesson, testimony has shown.
She said Wesson's actions set off an 80-minute standoff with police, giving him ample time to kill his children or have Sebhrenah do it for him.
In her final analysis, Gamoian explained why the victims were shot in the eye. "Mr. Wesson believed in the Old Testament," she said. "An eye for an eye, for an eye, for an eye, for an eye, for an eye ..."

Paladin for Truth said...

Anyone who does not think Warren could do these kind of things, think back about 10 years ago. Nobody in a million years could convince you back then, that Warren could and would do the things that he has already done, since his father died.

Faithful Woman said...

JB, You haven't keept up on prices in Hurricane lately have you?
The place is in a big construction boom. Property prices have doubled and even trippled in the last year alone.
We sure don't want to have to pay St George or Hurricane property prices for the humble land we have been on all our lives. What to do there?

Paladin for Truth said...

Nobody should have to leave their land. Everyone that built in Hildale/CC did so in good faith that they would get to remain. The original UEP trust does not provide for evictions. I don't believe that the founders of the UEP ever intended to evict any one. Everyone has as much right to their heritage as the native Indains of this country have to their land and heritiage. Warren and the Jeffs have no heritage in that place, what money have they put in, where are their efforts???With all of the evictions of the last 25 years, I can't see where a better people or better children have been produced. Loyalty to the sacred covenant of marriage has not improved any. Removal of those who don't see 100% they way you do solves nothing. Everyone should stay in their houses, that they built. They should send the bishop of Hildale/CC (William Timpson) a letter stating their intent and that they wish to be left alone. You should also give a copy of this letter to Gary Engles, so he can have it on record that you wish to stay. They those who want to remain should fly the US flag, fix up their places and send the visual signal that they are there to stay and that they are free in America. All that Will T. and mob can do is intimidate you and try to get you to leave voluntarly. The courts have ruled that you DO NOT HAVE TO LEAVE your lifetime estates. Stay there, start talking with everyone again. So what if we have 1st ward, 2nd ward, 3rd ward, etc. or non members. Be decent and start talking with one another. Make the community what it used to be. Let everyone have the freedom of their own religious beliefs. Train your children to respect the property and religious beliefs of others. Send the message to Warren and his minions that they have done nothing to build up the town, the have robbed enough and all who wish to support Warren should seek his permission to go live in Texas, or just go show up, after all, you people in Hildale/CC paid for everything in Texas. All those who want to stay and enjoy their heritage, stay, send the message to Warren that you are not going anywhere.

Anonymous said...

well said Paladin!!!! I think I will stick your post on the cmc grocery store "dart" board for all to see.

Anonymous said...

For goodness sakes don't go buy you a place. Not if you are living in a home that you have spent your lifetime building on UEP. That is your home according to our heritage and you are entitled to live there. If Mr. T and the thugs show up just tell them to go away. Do what Uncle Spencer did. He has more decency on a bad day than the whole lost council of unholy ghosts does on their best day. One man said these words, "I have nowhere to go and so I am going nowhere". Way to go friend.

The message that the boys haven't got through their heads yet is that they are no longer trustees. They are going to have to show up sometime. Maybe all the faithful who haven't seen their prophet should make sure that they go to the hearing and get a good look at Warren for yourself. You will get to see Truman, James, Leroy, Winston, and maybe Warren could just have his father and Uncle Fred step out of the other room and come on down with him. It would be a good reunion indeed. Might even freak some of the reassigned wives into speaking in tongues.

Anonymous said...

what time is the hearing???

Anonymous said...

Jay your right last weekends events are disturbing.What gets me the most is NO ONE is in C.C. to inforce the injunction
It doesn't matter what laws are in place if no one is going to enforce them!!!

Anonymous said...

The video of the men moving the Cozy Cabin's building will be great in court. What better way to prove the blatant disregard of Warren and his minions than to show the judge this video tape, he will see Warren's and the heavenly hush mob's disrespect for him. Thanks guys for helping "Uncle Mark" the Utah AG, by making his case so much easier. Way to go Kelly, this is going to help your king Warren a hell of a lot, doh, Warren does not need any new dragons let loose at this time. He has a quorum of 12 to slay already.

Anonymous said...

Oh, ye of little faith. Jesus walked on water, are you greater than he? He cometh in an hour ye think not. Have you blessed his kingdom? Oh ye of little faith, HOw oft would I have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens and ye would not!

Men In Black said...

JB, You haven't keept up on prices in Hurricane lately have you?
Stated;
The place is in a big construction boom. Property prices have doubled and even trippled in the last year alone.
We sure don't want to have to pay St George or Hurricane property prices for the humble land we have been on all our lives. What to do there?

Colorado City by zip code does not have as high a value as Hurricane, along with the problems of the city debt that has to be assumed. Those utility bonds still have to be paid off, thus the value is not as high. The meeting I was aware of discussed either the current market value or the land value at the time of the first construction. An acre of cleared land then or now, shouldn't be that much. If owned, it could be morgaged and owners could get equity loans to complete the construction as well as financing the land. If you had no money to buy the land, ownership allows you the option to borrow on it.

It is my assumption that the UEP will still need to be liquid or have cash flow to address maintence issues or needs. Taxes would revert to the state and county and could bypass the UEP as the prior middleman. One problem is tax is based on size in square feet and that makes taxes excessive. I addressed this when the county tax assessors inspected property a few years ago. In some cases, some would be better off to sell and buy or build smaller places to take advantage of smaller taxes and to realize better evaluation outside the city limits and away from the cities prior tax debt.

I would suggest a real estate course so as to understand real estate values and a means to improve lives. If the UEP rezoned and broke up the land to build subdivisions, using local contruction workers, all who were members of such a co-op would see a limited form of prosperity. Keeping the UEP intact, but under new leadership for the benefit of those it was created for has several opportunities. If you desire to leave the area, don't be in a hurry to discard your interest in the UEP trust, to do so might make those who remain, a tad bit richer! Its best to wait and see what the UEP becomes, but most definetly you should go about securing the land beneath your homes.

Just don't lose sight of the fact that the UEP may own far more land than what has homes on it and if not lost to lawsuits, that remaining land could represent assets and a future to those who retain and maintain that entity.

Men In Black said...

Such Advise;Anonymous said...
Oh, ye of little faith. Jesus walked on water, are you greater than he? He cometh in an hour ye think not. Have you blessed his kingdom? Oh ye of little faith, HOw oft would I have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens and ye would not!

To be true to your faith, you should follow your own advise and with only the shirt on your back follow your leader, he's 1000 miles due south and east! To follow Jesus or Warren, if you must gather or follow, then do so and you have my blessing!

Anonymous said...

Oh ye of little faith! What are you saying?

Warren doesn't gather he destroys. He certainly does not do what Jesus did. A hen that gathers her chickens loves and warms them, goes out in the yard and digs for them, protects them from intruders. A hen is a perfect example of everything that Warren is not.

Men In Black said...

I'm saying whomever posted that before, should be gathered to Warren and not preaching Warren's sermons here!

JB

Anonymous said...

All this talk of keeping your home in the Creek still does not address the cost of living there. In terms of utilities, groceries, gas, (lack of) medical if you're not "one of the faithful", etc; I'm talking hard numbers; a person would still be better off to buy a place outside the control of the UEP. Doesn't have to be Hurricane, which, by the way, is still quite affordable. Could be Kanab, Colorado, New Hampshire, for all of that. The point is if you get off the Twin City power grid, you could probably afford to make your house payment and with your savings in gas, groceries (prices are a whole lot better where there's competition) and all the other stuff, you could probably live quite well.

Now all that doesn't even address the emotional cost of living there. The stress and sorrow of watching family members and former friends ostracize you and shun you on a daily basis while their own families are being torn apart and figuratively raped is too much to bear. They will watch all that going on and they will keep telling themselves "God and the Prophet do right" while their very lives are being ripped away. I don't know about you all, but for that reason alone, living in the Creek is FAR too expensive for me to stick around.

Anonymous said...

Hey 10:39 your points are so pertinent that I must comment. CC/Hildale is a classic exapmple of taking the very worst business people that you can find and let them have at deciding what happens in your town. It would be interesting to have someone take the civic authorities and see how well they did in business on their own. Take the school board and look at them, the power board and so on. When they got a guy that knew what he was doing they kicked them off and out. What a bunch.

Do you know why we built the power plant? Because one of the old boys was going to have to pay two thousand dollars to have Garcane remove a power pole from his yard. He huffed and puffed and got some others huffing and puffing and soon we were talking about grids and enjines and poles and literally millions of dollars later we had a power plant. Uncle Rulon was infuriated and did not like the idea one bit. So much for asking your prophet, huh? Well, when we were in control, we had a power plant, we had workers, it was time to get the damn pole removed. Our own power plant charged him twice as much money to remove it as Garcane was going to. Without vision a nation must perish!

Anonymous said...

Ye hear of war and rumors of war, but little do you know the hearts of men in your own country. Jesus said, "Oh, ye of little faith: How oft would I have gathered you, as a hen gathereth her chicks, but ye would not."

And frankly if you people think we will follow these new appointed state people's choices you are fooled. Who then did not have what they chose?

For it is the devils way to accuse and plunder and put fear into the hearts of men.

Ye hear of war's and rumors of war, but little do you know the hearts of men in there own country.

Jesus said, "How oft would I have gathered ye, as a hen gathereth her chick's, but ye would not"

Anonymous said...

"For it is the devils way to accuse and plunder and put fear into the hearts of men."

You said it!!!! Boy, I couldn't have said it better. This has been Warren's method all along. As well as gathering chicks.
Think About It.

Anonymous said...

when is the hearing???????

Anonymous said...

To the Anonymous Chicken person,
Just a quick question. If the invisible profit Warren Jeffs doesn't show up for the hearing, and if all the "faithful" saints won't be governed by the hand of "satins" government as you say -- then - where will all these people who have been left out of the Yearning For Zion's sanctified gates go?? There Father's and sons have either been sent to repent from afar, or have been taken into the YFZ ranch to work 20 hour days so they have no time to even wonder if there families are OK. That is if they have even been allowed to know what is happening with the TRustee's of the UEP. Oh I know - -- Warren rounded them all up and told them that "satin" was getting the UEP and Winston Blackmore was helping him and so they had to them hence to CC and strip the place of everything else that wasn't bolted down.
You are so gone in the head it's scary -- Warren would have no concious whatsoever about thousands of his so-called followers stranded on the highways on the deserts homeless and starving -- AND SO TERRIFIED OF "SATIN" THAT THEY WOULD TRY TO REFUSE HELP - I'm sure. What kind of demented demon would create terror like that. When the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness Moses stayed with them and God sent mannah from heaven to feed them. Your prophet would leave them even the babies for the crows to eat them.
Deliver us from evil.

ATAR_i said...

What does warren have against satin anyway. Satin, satin, satin, it's all I ever hear. I guess he's never slept on satin sheets - then he wouldn't talk so desparigingly - and be in such fear of this lovely fabric.

onthestreet said...

cute.

Anonymous said...

What is the shortest verse in the Bible OTS. Jesus Wept.

Street's shortest blog post. "Cute"

Anonymous said...

Short posts from Street....PRICELESS!

Stinger said...

Atar, It is possible that ol' war' forgot and wore his satin shorts on a hot sunny day. A pair of them things bindin' up on a fella all day, sittin' through some of them horrid meetings, that would give anyone a fear of satin.

Anonymous said...

Stinger, ya did it again! It simply is not safe to drink while I'm reading your posts. I involuntarily evacuated my nasal passages whilst envisioning your binding satin shorts on a fella through one of those long, self-serving sermons of the War Meister.

Really, you must post a warning before you proceed with the hilarity. "*****WARNING*******Hey Anonymous! Put down your drink! Humor ahead! *********WARNING*******"

Anonymous said...

By the way, in case anyone thinks that 12:07 am was joking about the 20 hours per day hard labor at the YFZ Reformation Camp, that is true. Except last I knew, the requirement was 22 hours. I am not joking. Many men who got a short break to go home and see their families have reported (most reverently of course) that they are working very hard on 2 hours of sleep per night. And that they didn't know it was possible but "God is sustaining them".
What's going to be sad is to see all the physical exhaustion and breakdown cases coming out of there. The body wasn't created to do that. No wonder Warren needs the doc there. He's got to try to keep his slave labor alive as long as he can. But no worries. The men are quite disposable. When one breaks down he's got a dozen hopefuls back at the creek to replace him.

GBNF said...

You think maybe Warren is using Willy Black medicine to keep them working like that?

ATAR_i said...

Well Sting - you solved the satin mystery. Crotch rot can also cause a feller to feel mighty cranky as well.

Stinger said...

Might make him feel a bit jealous of anyone that seemed to have a happy love life. Who knows what kind of crazy revelations a fella in this sort of situation might come up with. Really a shame that he didn't try cotton shorts and maybe some goldbond, rather than ruining everyone elses lifes so they could all feel like him.
On to another mystery. I'm thinking that after a day of sitting around with the ol' satin shorts all bunched up the ol' fella probably goes home and lies down for the rest of the day. Hence the term lier??


I apologize to everyone who, after my last post, immediately pictured war with his shorts bunched up. It was not my intention to harm anyone's minds. Close your eyes and try to picture something more soothing. (Green grass, snowy mountains, even raw sewage would be a better mental image.)

Anonymous said...

Oh, that's OK Stinger--we always knew he had a corn cob there; the bunched up shorts is actually quite sublime by contrast!

feralfem said...

Maybe Satan invented satin? If so s/he did a good job. I don't know about shorts, but I love satin sheets.

Faithful Woman said...

shame, shame, street. warren outlawed the word "cute" Or haven't you been to meetings?

Anonymous said...

I have any idea. Why dont we try to hook up a blind date between Steet and Ruth. They have many things in common with each other. They both love Warren and they are both insane. If Streety is on the street like he says, I am sure he lost his family as well. So, we could all help solve these peoples family issues, by hooking these two nutcases up with each other. Who knows maybe it will be love at first sight and they will get married and live happily ever after.

Stinger said...

Think of the babies.

Anonymous said...

NO! NO! NO! Please don't pro-create.... The world can't survive a Ruth/Street offspring..

Anonymous said...

And in that day, they did mock the Christ, and cast lots for his clothes. There was darkness upon the earth for the space of three days, and three nights. In the day of Noah, they did mock and scorn as he built the ship, and in that hour God did seal up the ark, and the rain began. Oh, ye of little faith, how oft would I have gathered you, but you would not. For your hearts were set upon the filth of the world, and your bodies were contaminated, and you sought evil all the days of your lives. Oh ye, of little faith, how oft would I have gathered ye, and ye would not. Do you have claim upon God to be protected?

Anonymous said...

YES! WE HAVE THE CLAIM UPON GOD TO BE PROTECTED! By simple right of being His children and believing upon Christ. That is what He promised. Any YOU have been LIED to to believe that He would destroy you for being human. Please, please don't go the rest of your life and to your grave believing that it is a crime to be a human being. I know what I am talking about. I was raised there also. And all my life, I heard the moaning and groaning about how "wicked and abominable" we all are. IT IS A LIE. IT IS A DAMNABLE, HORRIBLE, SATANIC LIE. Please allow yourself the freedom to just read the bible for yourself and don't allow anyone else to translate it for you. Then come back and we'll talk about "how oft" God tried to gather us, but we "would not." I'll tell you why not. Because WE ALLOWED SOMEONE ELSE TO COME BETWEEN HIM AND US. SOMEONE ELSE TO INTERPRET, NO. . INTERPOLATE... GOD'S LOVE.

Anonymous said...

thank you anon. for the screaming un-tolerant sermon. amen

Stinger said...

Seemed pretty tolerant to me.

Anonymous said...

Sorry about the screaming there. I just get so worked up about it when I think about how we have been so manipulated for so long. I guess I get angriest at myself for falling for it my whole life. And then I try to tell people they don't have to waste their lives and they can't even understand my language. They cannot or will not hear reason. DAMN it's frustrating.

onthestreet said...

Yah, but Ruth's sooo right. That's why all the screaming. You just can't stand the (t)ruth.

onthestreet said...

ADMIN:

I'm trying to create my own thread on my own, so I can edit my thread as needed. I emailed you about this over a week ago, but no response. So I posted my request on several threads. Still no response. Did you die, are you okay?

Now I know that you emailed me back, and this is what you said:

Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:11:03 -0500
From: "Texas Polygamy"
Contact Details
Subject: Re: STREET

Sorry, only admn...or users with admin authority can delete posts. There is no need to copy and paste old posts simply to keep them at the top. If they are old posts, let them cycle off to the archives.
Weblog Admin

ADMIN: I'm not trying to "keep posts on top. How vain is that? Just need to be able to edit my own thread, you see?

Now, I clicked on the red blog logo in the upper left corner of the blog page, and got the next page, but there was no green plus sign. So I need admin authority to edit my own thread, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. How about it?

Hey, maybe you don't read all the threads, I don't know. Tell you what: I'll post this request on all the threads, so you'll see it.

Thank you Sir.
Street