Sunday, April 03, 2005

Success has Warren Jeffs audio

I just found some Warren Jeffs audio clips on the Success website. The man is a horrible racist. Listen for yourself!


Anonymous said...

hay i was there and heard it said just as it says on the taps the hole people are that way warren jeffs is teaching the hole people to hate the blacks and any one that is not with them i know becouse i am one that they shun and hate

Anonymous said...

Is everyone in the FDL racist. Do you actually beleive that the fall of the last tribe of isreal is due to the " dark shinned spawn of satin"?

Or is this just Warren?

Is there any real difference in any of you??

Anonymous said...

Is everyone in the FDLS racist?

Joseph Smith certainly was!!

Do you actually believe that the fall of the last tribe of Israel is due to the "dark shinned spawn of satin"?

Or is this just Warren?

Is there any real difference in any of you??

"That which we call a rose, by any other name smells just as sweet".

Anonymous said...

No, everyone in the FLDS is not racist nor do they all believe in Warren. By the way, neither was Joseph Smith racist. In February of 1844 Joseph Smith published a petition praying Congress to "break off the shackles from the poor black man, and hire him to labor like other human beings: for an hour of virtuous liberty is worth a whole eternity of bondage". Warren does not speak for Joseph Smith.

Anonymous said...

Racist views are strictly that of Warren. The Mormon creed is; that the Gospel is unto all nations, black & white, rich and poor, bond & free. Joseph Smith certainly was not racist. When joseph was running for President. he stated that he would like to free the Negro slaves and give them national equalization. Here in Canada the, reason Winston was removed as President of the Bountiful School Society was, because he tried to quash racial teachings. Racial teachings that were presented by Warren. It was documented in court affidavits that Fred Jessop and Truman Barlow attended that meeting in Canada when Winston was voted out. It did'nt happen.

Anonymous said...

How many Hispanics and blacks belong to your group?

Hispanics are the majority population in Eldorado.

I have yet to so one out of how many - 20 thousand FLDS members...

There is a saying down here:

"Don't pee on my leg and tell me that it is raining".

Anonymous said...

Remarks made by Brigham Young, the church's president after Smith was assassinated in Nauvoo, Ill. Young once said that blacks were the children of Cain who settled in Africa, and ''any man having one drop of the seed of Cain'' could not gain priesthood.

Baptism and membership in the church have always been open to all. But starting in roughly the late 1840s, black males were denied the priesthood ''for reasons that we believe are known to God,''.

The church ended the ban with a four-paragraph statement released on June 8, 1978, that said ''every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood.''

Does any person of color live in your communities and allowed preisthood rights?

Anonymous said...

Yes blog of6:37 A.M Under Leroy Johnson and John Y Barlow we had a whole community of hispanics established in Mexico. I remember one of the old mexican elders speaking in church in C.C. I think they splintered of and joined the LeBaron group.

oxymormon said...

dear 8:50 AM Blogite:

Where is the community located in Mexico (if it still exists). If not, where was it? How many members were down there, and were they mostly Mexican?

FLDS in Mexico...Qué mundo! Va perfecto con el machismo latino, qué no?

Anonymous said...

In response to 9:34... First of all its "Satan"... not "satin" as in slippery cloth. Second of all, Joseph Smith was not racist. Do your homework.

Anonymous said...

What about statments made by Anon 8:18
Seems like that person did their homework.


Anonymous said...

Does Warren Jeffs read this blog?

I would like to hear a "secret recording" of his comments as he reads how people within and outside of his organization feel.

Found Lost Boy said...

These recordings are actually about 10 years old. They are nothing new. My dad used to make me listen to them for an hour each day, and two hours each day if I did something "bad". He made stacks and stacks of these tapes and sold them in sets to his followers. There are some new comments on the tapes, the last few were the last meetings before Rulon Jeffs died. What I'd really like to hear are some really recent ones, to see how bad it has gotten NOW!

Anonymous said...

Brigham Young: “Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African Race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the Law Of God, Is Death On The Spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 110)

The acorn (Warren) does not fall far from the Mormon Family Tree.

Anonymous said...

Be submissive? Isn't that what used to be the rule of thumb for women who were about to be raped? Just submit as to not provoke the offender into committing further harm? Think now studies show, women stand a better chance if they take evasive action. Too bad those little FLDS girls don't about this or maybe not considering they have no where else to go.

keep sweet eldorado,


Anonymous said...

be not decieved. The negro is not ephrium. He is a decendant of cain. That does not mean that Warren Jeffs teaches persicution. He is talking to the people of ephrium. The Lord has set a mission for the negro's. Joeseph helped liberate these people. Brigham also tought the law. It is said in prophacy, "the negro's will flee america, to keep from becoming slaves again. They shall take up the British bayonett." The deed's of these people, Joeseph asked the Lord to close up his vision. It was too horrible for him to look upon. The negro people have not been given athority of God to hold priestood. That does not mean they can not fill the measure of their creation. It is written, "The law of christ was offered to all people. First the Jews and on to the gentiles." Each people have had an oportunity to accept or reject the gospel. The Negro people have not had Christ come and give them the priestood. If a person that is ephriumite, mixes there blood with the negro, they are cursed below all people. This is not new doctrine. It is doctrine tought in the story of cain. It is tought through all history. That does not give a person the right to persicute another for the race they were born to.

Anonymous said...

To Anon 2:45

Explain this statement:

"Each people have had an opportunity to accept or reject the gospel. The Negro people have not had Christ come and give them the priesthood".

If that statement is not racist, what is?

It is another excuse to look down at a certain race of people.

In other words - most of you still believe like Warren and Brigham Young.

If Cain was Negro, Adam and Eve were Negro too?

That means you (we)are descendant of Negro also. (Ever hear of Evolution??)

Don't tell Warren! You might be told to “worship from afar”.

He would just die if he knew he had Negro blood in him!

Deep down he still loves the Beatles!

Anonymous said...

watch out for that "pingy Pangy" music!!!!!!

Randy said...

Brigham Young was overtly racist, and Joseph Smith wrote some racist doctrine into the "Book of Abraham," though Smith didn't appear to be as vicious as Young about his racism. Until they admit the fraud of the "Book of Abraham"--something made clear by Egyptologists' translations of the papyrus--the Mormons can't get away from accusations of racism. It's in their scriptures.

Stinger said...

WOW!!! Nothing makes a fella more happy to live in Canada than hearing the kind of crap that spewed out of warren's mouth for the American's. Course we did get tapes of that garbage sent to us up here. My mother even gave me a complete set of his priesthood history tapes. I listened to one side of a tape and decided it would be a whole lot more fun to rip my toenails out with a pair of pliers so I burned them all. It was quite a holy fire.

Anonymous said...

Concerning Brigham Young:

We Mormons do NOT have a book of scruptures called "Journal of Discourses". Some things in there are useful, some are not. Some are accurate, some are not. They have not been subject to rigorous review, and acceptance by the Church as scriptures have. When you consider the primitive tools that they had for recording discourses, mistakes are invitable. My faith is not shaken by anything found in the Journal of Discourses.

Regarding Brigham Young and his feelings about Blacks: The "Vanguard Company", those who accompanied Brigham Young into the Valley, were personally selected by Brigham Young. Among these men was Green Flake, a black man. He was an equal among the party, and faithful to Brigham Young. He lived out his life as a faithful Latter-day Saint, dying in Idaho at an old age.

Regarding Mormons and balcks today: The Church is experiencing expolsive growth among blacks, particularly in Western Africa. The blacks do not have a problem with the Mormons. It is whites who are anti-Mormon who bring up the issue.

Anonymous said...

OOOOOOOOOH....embarrassing, isn't it?

Deny it all you want. It's there in writing (and audio) for everyone to enjoy. I don't know why mormons insist on adding documents to the Bible. Now it's clear to anyone who studies the Bible how off you people are...that is, in case there was ever any doubt.

I'm just glad I'm not in the position to have to defend that ideology. There really is no excuse!

Gotta go. Time to don my baggy pants and listen to my "pingy-pangy" music.

tex mex

Anonymous said...

To 11!:49

You need to study your own history better!!

Doctrines of Salvation, pp. 65-66.

There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men receive rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits.

pg. 61.

There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less.

Juvenile Instructor, vol. 26, p. 635

It is very clear that the mark which was set upon the descendants of Cain was a skin of blackness...It has been noticed in our day that men who have lost the spirit of the Lord, and from whom His blessings have been withdrawn, have turned dark to such an extent as to excite the comments of all who have known them.
Journal of Discourses

Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African Race? If the White man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.

Vol. 7, pg. 290-291

Cain slew his brother. . . and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.

You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the "servant of servants;" and they will be, until that curse is removed.
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 22, pg. 304.

And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Hams' wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representative upon the earth as well as God.

Millennial Star, Vol. 14, pg. 418.

For instance, the descendants of Cain cannot cast off their skin of blackness, at once, and immediately, although every soul of them should repent,....Cain and his posterity must wear the mark which God put upon them; and his white friends may wash the race of Cain with fuller's soap every day, they cannot wash away God's mark.

Year 2001 update

"Racial degeneration, resulting in differences in appearance and spiritual aptitude, has arisen since the fall. We know the circumstances under which the posterity of Cain (and later of Ham) were born with the characteristics of the black race. (Moses 5:16-41; 7:8,12,22; Abra. 1:20-27.) The Book of Mormon explains why the Lamanites received dark skins and a degenerate status. (2 Ne. 5:21-23.) If we had a full and true history of all races and nations, we would know the origins of all their distinctive characteristics. In the absence of such detailed information, however, we know only the general principle that all these changes from the physical and spiritual perfections of our common parents have been brought about by departure from the gospel truths. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 148-151; vol. 3, pp. 313-326.)" (Mormon Doctrine 1999 printing, p. 616)

Randy said...

Well, it's not just Brigham Young. Bruce McConkie discussed racial distinctions in terms of caste (he retracted that in 1978), and Mark Peterson also had some nasty things to say about black people and the priesthood. And who can forget "The Church and the Negro"? Racism is an unfortunate part of Mormon history--as it is a part of American history generally. As for the whether Mormonism is or isn't consistent with the Bible, I suppose that only matters if you believe in the Bible in the first place. Plenty of racism there too, by the way.

Anonymous said...

Lets not forget that the Bible has been hand translated many times by many different people over the centuries. Surely there is room for mistakes there too.

SCARED said...

I am a Christian woman with a family. It terrifies me that people like Warren Jeffs exist in this world.

He hides from the world by living in a compound. I think polygamy and child molestation is NOT a very Christian thing to do. He SHOULD be arrested. He is nothing but a PEDOPHILE.

If his relationship with God is so pure than why does he have so much hate in his heart for other races and sexual orientation. Love in an option, not a selected process like is marrying "rules".

If he has so much faith in his wives and other girls that live in him compound, than he should let child protective services come in there and interview each one of them alone. Let the YOUNG girls make up there minds.

Embrace It! said...


First of all, what is the direct correlation you have with polygamy and child molestation? Aren't there any monogamist child molesters? Must we name a few?
You are chistian, I'm assuming you're familiar with the Bible, or maybe you need to go to confession? The Bible does state that homosexuality is an "abomination unto God".

And by the way, you're totally right, love IS an option. Good idea, definitely let the young girls make up their own minds.

Anonymous said...

You faithful people from Colorado City better be careful what racist comments you post on this site, because I'm sure black people look at it too, and you might wake up one day with a thousand mad as hops buff black guys at your door just wanting nothing more than to kick your little white A**! Some of your beliefs are better kept to yourself you know.

Anonymous said...

I hope you weren't referring to your wives, because that is what us people out here call abuse!

SCARED said...

Polygamists marry young minor girls…that is called a pedophile. And for the parents that give their girls up like sacrificial lambs, shame on you. All of you should be arrested for endangering the welfare of a child. She should be able to decide for herself, when she turns 18 who she wants to marry. Yes, there are pedophile’s in monogamist relationships, but we DO NOT encourage it. Polygamists do. Monogamists get arrested, Polygamists don’t. ANYONE WHO DOES ANYTHING SEXUAL WITH A CHILD UNDER THE AGE OF 18 SHOULD BE ARRESTED.

I understand that homosexually is an abomination unto God. But are we supposed to be hateful people. Isn’t our God a forgiving God? Even thou I do not encourage homosexual behavior, I do not bash them, I guide them. There is a big difference.

embrace it! said...

Lets name a few monogamists who haven't been arrested for doing sexual acts with girls under 18, shall we? You go first.

And I'm sure that all the homosexuals out there appreciate your guidance. Rainbow power!

weblog administrator said...

Please watch the language. This is an open blog where profanity is neither appreciated nor tolerated. The subjects discussed here are too important to risk losing this forum over vulgar language. Thank you for your help in keeping this blog open.

Anonymous said...

To web administrator:

I truly hope you are NOT referring to blogs discussing racism and homosexuality.

I have seen very little if any bad language on this blog. It has the most refreshing and intellectual discussions of polygamy, sex and culture that I have found, from real people that these issues effect.

weblog administrator said...

To 7:19
No, I was not referring to discussions of racism or sexuality. I take down the posts containing profanity.

SCARED said...

OK...Let me make is clearer so you can understand


See the “anyone” part. Warren Jeffs should be arrested. He is a pedophile. If you have see articles, he has also been accused of molesting his nephew. So how can he preach on homosexuality? How is going to stop this man?

Anonymous said...

What happens if you are 18 and your girlfriend is 17 -- “arrest them"??

You said "anyone".

Laws are in shades of gray. There is no such thing as black and white, regardless of what Dubya and the moral majority says. There are usually extenuating circumstances.

Anonymous said...


To Web blog Admin of 7:37 PM:

Forgive me. I only see what I read. Thank you for such a wonderful Blog site.

Anonymous said...

If a 18 year old male is having sexual intercouse with a 17 year old female then her parents by law are allowed to press charges.

There is no grey area... it is against the law.... I agree with Scared

SCARED said...

Thank you.... anyone who is interested, I found a few (laughing…there are 71) postings about Warren Jeffs and his nephew Brent Jeffs that he molested. THIS MAN IS SICK!!!

Stinger said...

According to an Reuters news survey of 580 ninth graders, one third of the children said they planned on having some sort of sexual intercourse in the next six months. Do you want all them arrested too? It's great that you want to fix the world, but all the problems don't start and end with polygamy.

Anonymous said...

To 8:07 PM


The age of sexual consent in Texas is 17. Look it up! Like I said, " Laws are in shades of gray".

Anonymous said...

Sexual Consent Age Laws (USA)

This effects polygamy or any other sexual laws by age.

Stinger said...

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears this is true."
- James Branch Cabell

Anonymous said...

As to law in shade of gray;I think you have need of giving this to the fundemental mormans too. As to not being judgementle to gays, and prostitutes, and lesbians, try to not be judgementle to fundemental mormans too. As for Brent Jeffs: he did not speak the truth. and as to the fundementle mormans being raciest: Joeseph helped liberate these people. He said he would give them their own country and leave them alone. he did teach what was in the books about the negro race, and the war in heaven and their choices in this life before this one. It was never tought that a person has a right to persicute others for thier culture. I am Ephrimite. I have a right to have pure Ephrium blood, Just as a negro has a right to negro blood. That is what he was born too. And as to mad raciest people beating down our doors, to harass us: We have been harrassed because we are Fundementle Mormans since the day of my birth, and before. as to arresting ever underage sexual participant, you would have to arrest all people except a few in my church. good luck. When you have suceded in requireing all people to the high Moral standard in the bible, then maybe you would have a right to try to cohers and force us into your beliefs. It is never written that a negro was not entitled to the blessings of God. He was born. God did bless him. He has children. God did bless him. These people have a mission with God. Each individual has a mission with God. It was never written, "Let us fight and squabble, and war and contend." How-ever when people war and contend one with another, and turn from God, then he does withdraw, and Satin does inflick upon the people the desires of thier heart. These tapes were stolen. We did not enforce our veiws on you. You demanded them, to stir people up to persicution. I say, this nation upholds war. You voted for it. ENJOY our water ways were sold. our food sources are sold. What would you do if the stores could not feed you. Our nation does destroy other countrys for thier veiw. The oil is being threatened. Your little green peices of paper would not feed you if the stores had no food. Who will feed you, in this war, that is upon you. America is set up in pride. Her armies are scattered. Everyday tornadoe's, hurricanes, and floods are upon our Land. It is written, God will destroy all the wicked. One third by nateral disasters, One third by war, and One third by famine. It is written upon the wind. It is written upon the waves of the sea. It is written upon the Land.... These words of Joeseph. Who will be protected. The ones who watch diligently for This Christ...... are you filled with hate or love. This will determine you position in the next world. You came hear to train your body, to go on to what you choose. Filth will be restored to filth. Honesty will berestored to honesty. I am sure there will be negro people who will go farther, than some white people. An ephrimite can not turn from thier covnants with out becoming filthier than any soul upon the earth. These are the people who covnanted with Christ to bring Honor. These are the ones who made covnants not to fight and contend. These are the ones who covnanted upon the Law of the Prophets. This is not a gentile. A person who was pure ephrimte, will have no disobedience in them. God would never let him be hurt.

Anonymous said...

TO 9:07 PM

Honesty will berestored to honesty. I am sure there will be negro people who will go farther, than some white people.

Filth will be restored to filth.

"Get real" !! This is Brigham Young Voume II. Still can't tell any difference between you and Warren.

Anonymous said...

It's tempting to argue with the long-winded blogger, but she presents a better arguement against her faith than I ever could.

Keep up the good work, "windy"!

Anonymous said...

I think that Warren Jeffs is reading this and getting mad.

We are watching you Warren and so is God (and boy is he mad at you)


It is amazing to me that people in here of different beliefs can not agree with one simple thing.
Warren Jeffs is a child stealing molester. Why the authorities have not gone in there and arrested it is amazing to me.
I am from Chicago and if we had a man like him here, he would have been arrested already.
Our government need to get off their rear ends and do something for the kids in Jeffs care before he Jonestowns all of them.

Black Gay Woman Here said...

I am a black lesbian woman. Does anyone here have a problem with that?

I heard that the Racist Warren thinks I'm the devil.

Well I am not, you are Warren Jeffs

SCARED said...



Anonymous said...

I agree with Scared

Let's consintrate on the faith of the people and children.

GOD, Please look after the followers of Warren Jeffs. Keep them in your heart especially on this day. Thank you God for all the beautiful blessing that you have given us..Amen

Anonymous said...

sin being the key element in your spelling of "consintrate"

Anonymous said...

now, now children lets all play nice, you don't want the "teacher" to come in and spoil the fun.

Anonymous said...

to anonymous 5:12pm....we know how to "smack a b**** up too!"

Anonymous said...

Boy, I bet it sure is easy to sit back behind your computers and condemn people you've never meet or know nothing about. Do you believe everything you hear, or just the rumors about people you don't agree with. I'm sure if I looked hard enough, I could find people who accuse Gordon Hinckley, the Pope, the Dali Lama, Billy Graham, Pat Robertson etc...of sexual abuse. So get off your high horses and worry about your own sins and not somebody elses rumored sins.

individual identity said...


Thanks... brings to mind a certain other famous quote.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

me said...

We can all sit here and bicker back and forth about our religious beliefs.
God Loves Us All…
Born Again
Left Footed, Right Footed, etc, etc, etc……
We are God’s children….Let’s remember that

me said...

We can all sit here and bicker back and forth about our religious beliefs.
God Loves Us All…
Born Again
Left Footed, Right Footed, etc, etc, etc……
We are God’s children….Let’s remember that

Anonymous said...

anon 10:06 a.m., yes, I read your post before it was taken off by the administrator. I posted my resonse already. scroll up and take a look. It's right after the post you responded too. Happy days!

Anonymous said...

to anon 10:45

In order for the law to come in and arrest Warren, there have to be reliable witnesses and a willing plaintiff. Although Warren's nephew has come forward, it has been at tremendous personal cost to him and none of the women that Warren has taken are willing to do that. They treasure their relationship with their families. There are a few who have 'escaped' but are now in hiding.

Anonymous said...

to black gay woman

A good day to you, comming from a former FLDS, still strait woman. I do give you a personal apology for the slander spread by some of my associates. We are all God's children and all deserve to be loved. I hope you can forgive.

Anonymous said...

Why ded Warren Jeffs ex-wives escape?
Why are they in hiding?

Did you ever hear of the Danites?

Anonymous said...

Isn't it still a duty of all who love the basic rights and freedoms to consider that a person is innocent until he is proven to be guilty? Has Warren been proven guilty? If not, he must be considered innocent. Sounds like a lynch mob at work to me. Is that kind of justice not done away with in Texas?

Spyder said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

I have wondered when these tapes were going to get out. Warren has been teaching racism and death and destruction for as long as I can remember. I went to school at Alta Academy in Salt Lake. Warren was the principle there. Several times a year he would give us the "death and destruction" sermons and some of the stuff he would tell us would scare us to death. Many of us had nightmares because of his description of the destructions. He we tell us about the blood and gore of all of the dead people in the Salt Lake Valley, and many other gory and gross details. He said many things that should have never been taught to young children. I am sure he is teaching them now. I wonder when all of his followers, especially those who grew up in Salt Lake, are going to realize that he he has been filling us all full of sh$* for a long, long time.

Anonymous said...

To black gay woman; I am a plural wife, and I beleive that each of us has the same freadom to live as we choose. Isn't it great to live in America?

Anonymous said...

Innocent until proven guilty? That’s funny. Warren wont even defend himself. If he is not willing to take responsibility for his own actions. If his actions will not stand up to scrutiny then he is as good as guilty.
If he cannot be held to the same standards as the rest of us. Especially the people he has left as empty shells of human beings, the living dead. Then he has no moral authority and in the end it is the people that support him that are guilty of what is happening today.

Anonymous said...

they have been defendinf themselves for years wasting money and time on lawyers and legal expenses in a losing battle with a state who is so out to distance themselves from polygamy they'll do about anything. There comes a time to realize you won't win and focus on other things. for Warren and his followers it's doing what they feel the Lord has asked them to do.
A question for the "Lost Boys" on the blog...if you were so dedicated to the restored gospel as you all have been taught it, why did you leave town? I'm sure the Centennial Park folks would've been glad to help you out. Or why not get ahold of Winston Blackmore up in Canada and ask for some help, there are several resources you could've gone to without turning to Babylon and their influences. Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

If I disbelieve Warren, why should I believe in people who's beliefs while being less radical are so closely related? In order to get to a condigion where you feel like you can leave, then you don't really know what to believe. And if you've been kicked out, then you've been taught that the other groups will not have anything to do with you so all that is left is to go out into the big wide world and try to make it.

Anonymous said...

If they broke away or were removed from the same organization. Why would they not accept other refugees, going through similiar situations? It seems your finding excuses to do something you intended to do anyway. BTW, I'm not FLDS, I'm a member of another group which comes down through Rulon Allred (not AUB). If John Barlow would've just accepted Rulon's calling, all this idiocy could've been avoided. Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

John Y did accept Rulon Allred calling he was called to be a doctor nothing else.

Anonymous said...

By your fruits you shall know them...shall we discuss the fruits of Colorado City in comparison to the fruits of them that accepted Rulon A. as the true priesthood keyholder?

Anonymous said...

Compare away Rulon was trying to do what Warren has done. He tried getting what wasnt his. He never got it.

Anonymous said...

In what way was he trying to do as Warren does? Did Rulon take away Did Rulon strip away families or throw out etc...
What wasn't his? Was Joseph Musser the keyholder? Did he not appoint Rulon as his successor? That most of the council rejected that call matters not. Heavenly Father makes the appointments, not men.
Through his matryrdom fundamentalist mormonism saw great growth. Have you met the families/children of those associated with groups coming through Rulon. They are happy, well-adjusted, normal people. They are cautious but not paranoid, they can accept scrutiny. Can you say the same? Just a question.

Anonymous said...

Rulon Allred’s claim to authority of ordination was after Joseph Musser had a major stroke stroke. How can Rulon Allred claim authority when Rulon Allred himself placed Joseph Mussers hands on his head to ordain himself when Joseph Musser was mentally disabled from stroke and on his death bed. This was told to us by a man that witnessed this and whom I respect as an honest man by the name of Uncle Rich Jessop. The same situation that Warren claims his authority today after his father had a sever stroke. Isnt it also true that Women are not allowed to witness or testify in priesthood matters? That was Rulon Allred’s claim and now Warren Jeffs has done the exact same thing. Oh how history repeats itself.

The lawsuits against the FLDS has primarily been brought on by pressures of the FLDS themselves. A charge of child abuse is no small thing and any honorable person would face his accuser.

Yes, I have talked with young men that grew up in the Allred group and they don’t believe much in the religion at all. They feel about as abused spiritually as we do in the FLDS.

As far as I am concerned being Ex-FLDS or what ever is that is happening now has happened time and time again in one form or another to one extreme to another from the day the church was organized. All this claim of authority this claim authority that is non-sense. By their works you shall know them. If you had the opportunity to know men growing up that you respect then you are blessed. I did with Uncle Roy and even Uncle Rulon Jeffs for some years. I think we both have the right to apply to our lives the good we have received from anyone. But if your going to start arguing authority like your group is right and another is wrong your barking up the wrong tree.

Anonymous said...

They both usurped authority and they did not get the ordination.

Anonymous said...

I know arguing is pointless. I apologize for being contentious. I worry for the people in the FLDS, if the charges prove true about Warren and he is nutty, when they realize it where will they turn? Will they lose faith altogether?
One thing I must disagree with about is important to discuss authority because somebody has to have it, as the keys and priesthood will never be removed from the earth, and I'm sure we both agree the LDS church doesn't have it.

Anonymous said...

I dont worry so much about keys because that seems to be the biggest stumbling block for people simply seeking power. If we cannot live by doing good and following the attributes of Christ then whats the point? Why do we need a reason to be decent to every single person we meet? Why cannot we treat everyone as equals? Why cannot we truly believe that people may believe how, where, or what they may and still respect them for it as long as it is not harmful or destructive.
Why do we need all this complication to simply following the attributes of a God of Unconditional Love? Why does it have to be more complicated than that?

Anonymous said...

I believe people should be able to worship however they want to as long as it doesn't involve abuse. And it is incumbent on us to treat all as equals.
But that still doesn't do away with the fact the HF restored the priesthood to the earth. And without that authority you can only get so far and your damned (stopped), no matter how nice you are.
Just because we've been screwed over by a false prophet doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to look for the true one.

Anonymous said...

I appreciate your beliefs and I truly hope they serve you well.
I simply choose to accept what ever Heavenly Father has in store for me and I am thankful he has time to consider me at all. At this point in my life I simply refuse to believe in a God that has been made into all this complication and restrictions and conditions on his unconditional love.
If I am wrong then so be it. I take full responsibilities for my own actions but I refuse to believe in a frivolous God. God is a Jealous God? Since when is Jealousy a Godly Attribute? A God of Unconditional Love but beware my wrath? More people have died in the name of God than for any other reason. Most of all the wars were because of religion. So many deaths because someone claimed they were right and someone else was wrong in their religious beliefs. Where do you draw the line? Is it race? Is it sexual orientation? Is it religion? Is it Nationality? It looks as if all religions have evolved over their lifetimes. Becoming more politically correct with each new decade. Sacrificing their sacred marriage covenants for state hood. The list goes on and on.
I am human and I do and will make mistakes. I will take being the best person I can be and accept what ever God has in store for me and I will be happy with that.

Anonymous said...

Good Luck.

Stinger said...

Has anyone stopped to ask the question "What the heck was warren doing watching tv in the first place?" He has preached sermon after sermon on the wickedness of it. Here is a thought. He was doing research on what is evil. He takes part in the "evils of the world so he knows what to tell his followers not to do.

Stinger said...

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."
- Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)

Anonymous said...

To those debating who has the "authority".

Question? What if a previous blogger was right and you both "took a left left turn at
Joseph Smith".


Anonymous said...

Thanks for wishing me luck, Oh, by the way that feeling your having worrying that I am being blasphemous kinda like I am attacking your religion or God? well I'm not. You are. You hold so dearly to your doctrine and teachings that you haven’t honestly read the full work of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, & John Taylor etc. The truth is that Warren Jeffs was quoting much of his racist remarks from Brigham Young and John Taylor. If I belonged to the Mormon Church or even a fundamentalist. I would sure be researching my religion and not letting my Bishop telling me not to look at the early scriptures & sermons of Early Prophets etc,. They were faded out for a reason. You want to believe? Believe! But don’t be ignorant of the facts of your own religion.

Anonymous said...

Im not debating Joseph Smith. My arguments are as much for ANY religon. Once again., why do they ALL try to complicate the simplness of Christs attributs and his Unconditional Love? Its seems every religion claims to be Uncondtional but then they start heaping conditions on it.

Anonymous said...

yea thats a thought-a REAL STUPID ONE but its a thought

Anonymous said...

9:56 was directed at 9:18

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah? Maybe you should quit believing everything you're spoon-fed and do some research. Joseph Smith was a very sick person.

His "revelations" were not of God, but they were of spiritual entities, if you get my drift....

Your intentions are good, but many of you would sooner go out on a limb for Joseph Smith than you would for Christ Himself. What a bunch of misguided individuals you are.

Obstructionist said...

Most of the tapes were used at the Alta Academy school in Cottonwoom Canyon, South of Salt Lake City. Warren was a teacher or instructor there and at the begining of each tape he identified the class. Most were recorded in 1997 and 1998, to 5th to 8th grade students or so Warren stated.

I have about 40 of these and they cover a wide variety of subjects. As I understood it, he sold these for $6.00 each to the faithful. The idea was to listen to these daily to be closer to god or Warren? There are other tapes that reflect unsantioned lectures or discourses, but most being used date back to the schools usage.

Unfortunately some of the prophesy's Warren spoke can't be true or accurate, with Zion now in Texas and not Colorado City. The more dire predictions that parrellel the book of Revelation won't occur where he said it would in these cassettes.

While the belief preaches no violence, it does leave room for contradictions under certain circumstances. The prophesy on cassette stated that Russia would attack one coast and China the other. The streets of Colorado City were then supposed to flow red with blood, but it never defined by whom. The people of the earth were to flee inland to the rocky mountains and somehow Colorado City was seen as the center. A great battle would occur and the chosen people would be the victors.

Don't complain to me, I don't create this stuff, its in Warren's lectures by his own voice!

More interesting is he names, he names in these books or his father did in the oversize hardback books the FLDS published at their own print house in "Twin City Publishing" out of Hildale, Utah. They were prolific and each time I hear Rodney Parker defend the faith I can't help wonder if the FLDS attorney has ever read these books?

I was reading Rulon Jeffs book last night "In Light and Truth" published in 1994 and its hard for the faithful to denounce truths stated by the former prophet. Not hard for me, but for the defenders of the faith who keep saying the activist have it all wrong, we have what their prophet put in writing. Between Warren and Rulon they published 10,000 pages of this copyrighted text and I'd like to see any of the faithful call these sermons or lectures lies.

The Alta Academy books the "Student Star" volumes 14-16, Priesthood Succession, Priesthood Articles, Rulons sermons volumes 1-8, Leroy Johnsons sermons vol. 1 to 6. Purity in The New And Everlasting Covenant of Mariage" and more, detail the faith that so many have denied publicly. "In Light and Truth" is 890 pages, the FLDS were prolific, authorities need to read these stuff!

MIB "Men In Black"

Anonymous said...

Men in black,Warrens tapes made me so sick I couldn,t make it through them.

your right it's time they be made public.

Anonymous said...

They drone on and many believed them to be hypnotic. I suppose if you were raised in this, its posible that it was further mind conditioning, but on the outside it just verifies the meaning of a cult. More important the contridictions, show the lies, but sacred to many, the truth can not be heard. Until the faithful are ready to question Warren's authority, they won't accept a truth no matter how many facts are presented, even in the voice on these cassettes.


MrT said...

Could anyone that went to Alta to post on the things that went on there.
Warren was the principal there and I know of serveral incidents that Warren would call in the parents of a supposed infraction of a student. That he would dig quite deep into the personal lives of the student and even the parents to a drgree.

Anonymous said...

When I retrieved Caroline Cook in Filmore I had a chance to both interview and vhs record her story and account of what occured. She was at the Alta Academy and was counciled once a week by Warren since she was in the second grade. Most kids were called in because of being in trouble, so these sessions stuck in Caroline's mind.

She only completed 6th grade I believe which had as much to do with Warren anf Rulons move fro Cottonwood Canyon to Hildale. She was being prepared for a marriage but did not know for sure to whom. She feared it was Warren because he had taken 4 years to personally groom her to becoming comfortable with him.

As the Utah Tri-State rep. of FOR KIDS SAKE I believe this was the clinical motives of a pedophile. From the age of 7 or 8 he was setting his sights on a girl that would be technically according to the faith his future wife, but still as a child bride under the law.

When Jack Cook confessed to a relationship with his daughter age 15, he considered her an adult making adult choices. There was a perception that 15 was mature and it was a norm as an age to marry within the group historically. Through puberty and capable of producing, Warren was keeping tabs on his favorite students.

In the society beyond, having sex with a female student under the age of maturity, will get a teacher 5 years in prison or more. But lacking oversight Warren was able to pick and chose for later and so reflected today with his many young brides. Many were his students when he instructed them.

Caroline short changed the system when she ran and was rescued. Her uncle took over and raised her, as he had left 30 years prior.

A trade for a trade, Marvin had married his second wives daughter, as his third wife, his technically step daughter. The union was blessed by Warren. Caroline was a Darger, her mother being Julie Darger. Roberta Mackert was Marvins second wife, Afton Roberta's daughter Marvin's third wife. Roberta's daughter Samantha was concerned that she to might have to marry her step dad and at 15 requested to be assigned in marriage to avoid such. She was placed in Canada.

This is a trade concept by arrangement and led to further speculation that Caroline might complete the trade. At the time Caroline ran, Marvin was under investigation for Incest, under the Utah law "Violation of Trust" where by he had married a step daughter who knew him as her father. It was West Valley Police Dept. Investigator was Detective Rackley in report number 00-87790 It had been reported by a Murray Utah Police Officer who had understood the circumstances.

This explains the conflict that occured in the Washington County Utah parking lot between the Washington County Sheriff and I when he chose to return Caroline to her father. Wants and Warrants would have revealed the investigation on the father and forced child protective services in. A long and detailed conversation between Leslie Zitting and Caroline's uncle created the safe environment for the female minor, but the verbal agreement between a man wanted for Incest investigation and the county sheriff.

I'm sure Caroline could better explaine the Alta Academy and others who have attended, but when you have family still inside such dialog can still be difficult. With time and luck others will come forward to reveal their experiences there.


Domino said...

I was glad to hear some clips from the tapes. Is it possible to get a bit more? Anonymous, when you said that listening to Warren's tapes made you sick, what specifically was sickening?

MrT said...

Listening to his voice brings back so many memories that I would like to forget.

Now recognizing him for what he is, his voice literally makes me nauseous.

For me it is a mental trigger that brings back all the crap we had to believe in or be damned to hell, the risk of our souls being destroyed because of our unfaithfulness.

The weight of unbearable guilt that his teachings put upon us made us all walk around as sinners so we were continually condemning ourselves and beating ourselves up for our failures, for our humanity.

We had to constantly hurry up and be perfect before the end of the world so that we were not destroyed along with the wicked and the rest of the world while our families and loved ones were saved.

When I hear his voice now it reeks of evil to me. I don’t know if it is because he is and/or that in my mind I feel so betrayed. I truly believed with all my heart. I wanted to believe.

Anonymous said...

From an Alta Academy Graduate:

I have read all of the arguments here, and find it hard to believe. I know and understand how some of you just want to save those that need saving. I am not one of them. Yes Warren Jeffs is my prophet. The tapes you heard of him are him quoting other prophets. They are all taken out of context, and put in the worst light that could possibly be shown upon them. It has worked, so many people are furious at this people and their raciest beliefs. But, our beliefs are not raciest. I don’t hate the Negro, Mexicans, Japanese, Chinese, or any other. I try to not just tolerate but to understand all. As for some that wanted to know about Alta Academy, it was the best school I attended. They worked you harder there, in learning than anywhere I had been. The teachers cared about the students, and no the students were not being groomed for future husbands. For those that say the lost boys are driven out so others can have more wives. Sorry this doesn’t stand with me. I know a lot of these “lost boys”. They left, wanted to leave and had no desire to be here. Some have taken their girlfriends with them, some of the girls decided not to leave. This religion is about choice. If I didn’t want to be here, Warren doesn’t want me to be here. I would not be threatened with death; my wife would have the right to make the decision if she wanted to stay to stay. When I was married I was asked do you take “…………………………………” I said I DO. I could have said I don’t but I chose. No one else chose for me. I did not have a gun to my head, nor do those that have left need to worry about BLOOD ATONEMENT. We are just glad to be rid of those that don’t wish to be here. I say more power to them, and stop spreading the lies.

P.S. To Flora:

How about no more kidnappings, and if you do it again don’t get video taped by the media.


Cocaine is bad for you
Keep your shirt on

Anonymous said...

Well, it's nice to hear another viewpoint from the inner sanctum of Warren's remaining (but fast dwindling) flock. You'd better be careful because your very participation on this blog could get you gone like your stalwart friends.

It seems so strange to me that men like Dan Barlow for example, who I'd worked with and found to be very dedicated to his family, would just leave and abandon everything--An entire life's work given up without even a whimper of a struggle. All because one man said to hit the road? Where is the logic and decency in this?

10:58 AM, can you explain this to me, so that I and others can understand what justify's this behavior? What Christ like teaching does this policy of kicking men out of their homes and taking away their family's demonstrate? You are defending Warren Jeffs in destroying family's that have been together for fifty years. Are you absolutely sure that he has done the right thing?

Please explain how destroying what Brother Johnson put together is building the Kingdom of God? Explain also how Zion ended up in Texas? I'm sure the Texans would like to know as well . . .

We're waiting for your answer.

Stinger said...

10:58, I would like to know why warrenite parents are told not to speak to the members of their families that don't believe in warren? Don't tell me that it is all lies. I have heard that one before. I can't go visit my mother anymore. I know lots of other people who have been told they can't visit their family. There are lots of warrenites that have told their parents they are no longer allowed to visit them ever again. And don't give me the ol' warren is god unto the people and can do no wrong speech. I've heard that one before to. It makes me want to vomit.

Stinger said...

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Anonymous said...

Hey 2:51

Answer to your questions. I don't know why they were corrected the way they were. I live my life to the very best I know how. I do not live in fear of losing the family that I have been blessed with. I try from day to day do the things that I know are right. The corrections made, are not between me and whoever. Ther are between the prophet and the men corrected. Some of them are my relatives, it was a soul searching event. They have gone and are doing what ever has been asked of them as far as I know. You would have to ask them about specifics of what has gone on between them and U. Warren. Some of the families that I have been associated with that have been placed are happier than they have been in along time. Also, stinger I still see and talk to my mother often

Stinger said...

I am very glad for you. Don't ever let go of your family, no matter what happens. I have heard people say that they would leave their family, knowing they did nothing wrong, if warren told them too.

Anonymous said...

To the Alta Academy graduate at 10:58 am: You have been reading the arguments against Warren Jeffs on this blog site and you “find it hard to believe.” This is not a very strong statement coming from a “Warrenite” whose been thoroughly processed. From your statement, it sounds like you believed “it” but that it was sort of a hard pill to swallow.

I can understand where you are coming from and I recognize the turmoil and indecision that must have been going through your mind when you wrote the statement. Reading through the rest of your post, though, makes me wonder why you wrote that you “find it hard to believe” in the first place. Perhaps it was just a slip of the fingers on the keyboard.

Maybe you unconsciously divulged the fact that you have questions that keep popping up, uninvited into your mind, no matter how hard you try and suppress them.

The discussions you see on this blog site are in no way intended to “save you.” That is something you must take responsibility for yourself. We’re not trying to save you, we are merely pointing things out that Warren is teaching and doing which are in direct opposition to the principles of repentance and the very nature of love itself.

If, by the knowledge you’ve gained in reading these discussions, you are awakened in some small degree and take it upon yourself to begin studying out the truth for yourself and are saved, along with your family, from Warren’s ethnic cleansing, then so be it.

As to Warren’s taped recordings of racial statements, played to the nation that you have also heard: You said they were “taken out of context”. Perhaps you could post the statements you are referring to on this site and put them in the proper context as to how you believe they were meant. I’m sure you could shed some of Warren’s “holy light” on those, what appear to us to be racist remarks, and show us, through a different lens, that your “beliefs are not racist.” I’m sure this “posting in context” will be very illuminating to all the furious people you were talking about who heard the remarks, via TV, radio, newspaper, blogs, etc. ;-)

It will be “fun” to see the contortions you will have to put the English language through to convince anyone that your religion is not racist. I’m not saying you can’t do it; I just want to see how you do it. I’ve seen rhetoric and talking in circles well written before, so I know that you have a tough job ahead of you if you are to convince us your prophet is not racist, by the remarks he’s made, quoting earlier Mormon prophets or otherwise.

To get you started with your answer, here’s a question: Could a black man be totally converted to your FLDS religion, consecrate his family, pay his tithing, go to all the required meetings, work his heart out on Saturday projects for the Priesthood, turn into the storehouse all of his earthly assets, be totally obedient and do all that is required of a white man to receive the Holy Melchizedek Priesthood and then get the same priesthood as conferred upon a white man conferred upon himself by your prophet, Warren Jeffs?

To simplify it: Could a black man do ALL the works that a righteous white man is required to do and still be given the same Priesthood, rewards, ordinations and benefits your prophet confers upon a worthy white man, or would something be held back, just because of the color of his skin?

You say, “Our beliefs are not racist.” Will you tell me for yourself, not for your prophet or your religion, but for yourself, if you believe the black people are children of God, the same as we are, and entitled to all that we feel we are entitled to? Do you really believe the black people are the sons and daughters of Satan sent to test the “righteous whites” as Warren teaches us? I ask this to find out if YOU, separate from your prophet and religion, know if YOU are really racist in your heart or not. You may need to ponder upon this for a while, I know that I did because I was a thoroughly indoctrinated FLDS “saint”.

Concerning Alta Academy: I’m sure it was one of the only schools you attended and you, therefore, have no basis of comparison, so I understand where you are coming from, at this time, with the loyal defense of “our” school.

I would advise you to never quit learning and broaden your horizons beyond Alta Academy and some of the abuses that we know occurred there.

Don’t try to tell me you didn’t see our fellow students, both girls and boys, whipped so badly for minor infractions by your prophet, that they could hardly sit down. And don’t tell me you thought the public beatings and the public humiliation was justified. I know you have questions about what occurred there, the same as me. We are only human, you know. The “Alta Experience” deeply affected all of us.

I’ll concede that a few of the lost boys “wanted to leave and had no desire to be here.” We can also agree that cocaine is bad for Flora and she should have left her shirt on, at least in public.

I sign my posts “Nameless and still alive” for a reason. I noticed you also posted anonymously and I know that you too have your reasons.

I don’t believe we need to get into the issue of blood atonement, as our actions speak a lot louder than our words ever could.

I look forward to your anonymous answer to my questions.

Nameless and still alive

Anonymous said...

Ok! I know I should not have poked fun at Floras expense. I need to do better about that and I apologize to everyone for that comment.

I had the privilage of attending 2 other schools before Alta Academy, 1 private 1 public. I was older when I started there, and appreciated all that was done for me. I was once in line for one of these beatings that you have mentioned. I did not recieve one, but a very nice correction and a punishment that fit the crime. I have come from out of the world as people here put it. I chose this life style. I had a very good basis of what is out there to base this on. I could probably say with a great deal of certanty that in my life I have experienced eons more than you, if you where born in CC. Enough on that. I do not know what your definition of being racist is so I cannot say if I am one according to you. To answer the question as you have put it, no they could not. They would be entitled to every other blessing except holding the Priesthood. This was taught by Joseph Smith so I don't know what else to say to you on that subject. My definition of a racist is one that hates someone else for thier creeed, color or differences from ones self. I try not to hate anyone in this world, and wish others would grant the same privilage to me. I cannot even take my wife to dinner in St. George for fear of some people and what they do or say. All because of how I belive I should worship my God. I can say for my self that yes that black people are of the children of God, and he put them here for a purpose. I also believe that people can change and that God is the ultimate judge. He knows his plan and he will follow it. I don't even want to think for an instant that I could even be in his place of judgment. I follow my God, and my Prophet to the best of my abilities.

Anonymous said...

To 3:34 PM:

You do not live in fear of losing your family? You casualy disregard the treatment other men have received from Warren without so much as a need to know why?

I'm afraid when your time comes to be declared personna non gratis that those neglected fears will be totally realized as your immediate reality. But keep blogging and you will likely find that many of the arguments against Warren's policies are true.

In any event, hang onto your family and home. No one needs to suffer any more injustice at the hands of Warren Jeffs.

Anonymous said...

To 10:29

How would you explain Warren marrying some of his mothers within the same week that his father died. Doesnt that strike you as odd especially when Warren said to the people that "father's wives are going to stay put and to all Israel hands off" or something to that affect and then within a matter of days he married 10 or so, the same with Leroy and Wendell. Would you mind sharing your thoughts on this subject. This was one I had trouble trying to understand.

onthestreet said...

FLDS named to 'Hate Group' list by Southern Poverty Law Center

The Southern Poverty Law Center will name the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to its “Hate Groups List” when it publishes its quarterly Intelligence Report on May 1st. The list contains hundreds of groups ranging from the Ku Klux Klan and Aryan Nation, to the Nation of Islam, many of them located here in Texas, some as nearby as San Angelo.

STREET'S REPLY: "These six things doth the Lord HATE, yay seven are an abomination in his sight. . .
Then what your Lord describes covers nearly the whole human race. So it God a RACIST? Is God guilty. God forbid. He merely says that he hate evil, and all have sinned. He also says that he "does not look upon sin with the least degree of allowance," and "few there be that find eternal life." So if there is one church upon the earth that follows the word of God and this strick order of things, who is guilty and who is not? You just as well put GOD on your list, and see if you can snuff him out of eternity. See where it will get you. The black man is a brother, and a good one at that, according to many things that I heard directly from the Prophet Warren Jeffs. His day to receive the gospel will come, just in God's own due time and way. As for the evil in that race, again all have sinned. But just bacause they sin doesn't mean we have to ignore it or take it into our society or our church. We speak against these things.

Anonymous said...

To 10:29 pm.
Alta graduate.

I'm pretty sure Flora didn't mind us having a little "fun" at her expense with the shirt thing.It probably made her laugh.

Were the two schools you attended prior to Alta,both private and public, in S.L.C.?

You said you were in line for one of Warrens beatings and did not recieve one but rather "a very nice correction" and "punishment that fit the crime".
I can't tell from your statement whether you are denying that the whippings were even taking place or that you are acknowledging that they did take place but that Warren was in a particularly benevelent mood that day and you were relieved that you basically got off scott free. Could you elaborate on that point a little? I'm assuming you remember it from your childhood because it affected you.

I noticed when you said "I could probably say with a great deal of certainty that in my life I have experienced eons more than you" that you qualified your statement with "if you were born in C.C..Enough on that".

I got quite a chuckle out of that one.Your quote leads me to think that you believe if I were born in C.C.,I should automatically be a little backwards.I guess I can't blame you and we both know what we are referring to. :)

We will have to wait until this hand plays itself out and we both reveal our identities before we know who has experienced the most between us in this short lifetime.

Concerning racism; I don't say this lightly because I can see that at heart you are a decent human being and because you are reading this blog is proof you are relatively open minded. You acknowledge that if a black person in the FLDS church did all of the same righteous works of a white person in the FLDS church,the white person(yourself)could hold the priesthood,which argueably is the single most important ordinance "we" FLDS men attain on earth ,yet the black person could not hold this same priesthood.

That is racism,pure and simple.

This is unjust and you know it,even though you claim for 'yourself'they are "the children of God" as we claim to be.
You clearly don't believe,as your prophet does,that the black people are"the spawn of satan".

Think back to how you felt when people in St. George pointed at and talked about you as you dined out with your wife.You should understand discrimination by now and it's not an enjoyable experience.

How much worse would an FLDS black man(theoritically speaking of course)feel, that accomplished all the work you did and maybe more,yet was denied the holy priesthood because of the color of the skin God gave to him.

What if God looks at the people you were referring to in St. George,looks at you,looks at me, looks at the world in general,then sadly shakes his head and thinks to himself,they just can't seem to get it.

I know this train of thought weighs heavily upon your mind by the subject matter you used and the way you hurriedly ended your post.I'm sure when you started answering my post you was going to answer the questions I asked.

I would still like to know why you "find it hard to believe"the things you are reading on this blog site about Warren.Would you say all you've read is lies,50%,25% etc? Is any of it true in your eyes? If not, could you be specific as to what is not?

I would really like to see you post some of the racist remarks Warren has made and explain how they were "taken out of context" by the media.If you can't find the exact quotes on your family training tapes, of Warrens, the Eldorado success has them on their website for the public to listen to or I can get some of his quotes for you out of my personal collection if you would believe they came from him.

I truly wish you well on your journey.

Nameless and still alive.

Stinger said...

4/22/2005 7:17 PM, Hey fruity, my ol' pal, nice to see you finally made it over to this blog. The good people of Texas will really get a kick out of your strange brand of garbage. Any of you Texas bloggers wondering what I am talking about should check out street's comments at
This onthestreet is quite possible one of the few people that could make Ruth look sane.

ATAR said...

Jeffs been reading poetry

Check this out In the land of Pingy Pangy

Anonymous said...

To Mr T
4/9/05 12:22 am

I am an Alta Academy graduate. I rather enjoyed going to school there. It was the only school I ever knew, so it is hard to compare it to other schools. I didnt like the strictness of the school. We could not wear hats on school property. We could not wear shirts with any writing on them. We could not wear collarless shirts or pullovers. We could not throw snowballs, and if we did we could be expelled for it. We were not suppose to talk to the girls. We could not wear red clothing or neon colored shoelaces. In Junior High the boys and girls had separate classrooms, and they had their P.E. at different times of the day. Footballs were not allowed on school property. In Junior High and High School, the boys and girls could not play any sports together. The boys would play one sport and the girls another. Warren confiscated my football in 7th grade and told me that "it is a sport that only causes contention." As far as abuse goes I honestly never heard of Warren or anybody esle ever molesting or whipping anybody. Except for my third grade teacher. She would always pull me out the classroom by my ears, every time she heard me talking when I wasn't suppose to be. She also tried to slap our hands with rulers, whenever we tapped our fingers on our desks. Of course we did everything we could to upset her. So to many of us boys it was just a game to see what we could get away with. If any other abuse did happen it was kept very secret by everyone involved. Warren did ask me personal questions, like, "what I did after school," and if I have ever listened to the radio, or watched TV or movies, but that was as personal as he ever got to me. Overall I rather liked going to school there, despite the fact that it was so strict. They did have a very good curriculum, and we were given lots of homework. The thing I hated the most was the destruction sermoms we were given every few months or so. They scared the hell out of me, and many, many of the other students. He would go into great detail describing how they would happen and what would happen. I also hated the boy-girl sermons he would give. They made you never ever want to look, or even talk to a girl until you were married. So girl friends were definitely out of the question.

onthestreet said...

"Success has Warren Jeffs audio"

Warren Jeffs has success.

onthestreet said...

Alta Graduate: You got a footing from that education that the world never gets. It has saved you from many errors, and put you on a very strong foundation. If you are no longer tied to that man, then much is lost, but your priesthood schooling is a real jewel in your cap. Just find your way back.

Anonymous said...

can anyone say PROPAGANDA?