Saturday, April 23, 2005

Fascinating

I must say, this has been very educational, and very disturbing. When I fist got into this blog, I did so because I wanted to learn about the group that is building a new town so close to my home here at Eldorado. I had no idea it would become so addictive.

First, let me say that none of the Mormon banter, and by that I mean the apparent disagreement between the LDS, FLDS, pre-Warrenites, post-Leroy Johnsonites, etc.) has swayed me one bit. No, I don't believe I have all the answers, but come one people, none of you seem to have any of the answers. And, continually pointing to so-called scripture in a book that I, and the vast majority of the world, don't recognize as God-inspired, is a useless exercise.

Second, not everyone outside your group, whoever you are, and whatever group you happen to follow, is damned and going to Hell. We don't all sleep around, abort our babies and spend our free time thinking up ways to persecute you and your church/churches. Most of us never heard of you until Warren Jeffs decided to invade our peaceful world.

Thirdly, nowhere, and I mean nowhere in the Bible does it say that God turned Cain's skin black. It says God placed a mark on Cain, but nothing about being black. For all I know, Adam was a black man and God turned Cain white. Maybe God gave Cain freckles, but that doesn't mean that all freckle-faced kids are the descedents of Cain and therefore minions of Satan. (I use freckles only because I have them myself and not as an insult to anyone.) If what you call scripture says differently, you should probably consider getting yourself a new book.

No, Satan doesn't need a ready-made group of followers. He has little trouble recruiting those he needs and apparently no trouble at all among some of the posters on this blog.

Did my little rant convince you to change your beliefes? Of course not. Neither do your rants convince me. So, please, let's get back to something a little more constructive. Something like deciding how we can send Warren Jeffs to jail for the remainder of his natural life. God can deal with him after that.

126 comments:

Anonymous said...

Eye Witness? You never want to beleive one of those !! j/k

Finally... someone started a new thread.

So.. what should we use to prove (or argue) anything? Carl Sagan? Frued? (or we can just state all the rumors, wild conjectures and activist lies authoritatively)

I'm glad to see, however, that you did pick up on the difference between the Jeffs, and pre-Jeffs era.

but... "When the wicked rule the people mourn" oops- that was from the Bible. (A wise King with a lot of wives)

P.S. Your world is not peaceful

Anonymous said...

I would tend to disagree with you on the references to the Book of Mormon, it shows a bit of religous bigotry on your part. I live in Houston, Texas where we have many religions including LDS, Buddists, Muslim, Jews, Baptists, Catholics.
I have learened to respect the scriptures of these various religions even though their scripture is not the scripture of my faith.

One of the reasons I left the Baptist church was when a Sunday school teacher told me that Catholics are not Christians and in the same breath said the LDS (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) were not Christians.

Well I have friends in both churches, and I know they are Christians, they both believe in the risen Christ, forgivness of sin and everlasting life.

So what if the Catholics add the Apocrypha as scripture after Revelation, so what if the LDS adds the Book of Mormon as scripture.

As to the FLDS, I don't see them as a valid church under Warren Jeffs.

Warren Jeffs has violated the law and needs to spend time wearing all white clothes, no pointed hoods allowed, no burning cross or preaching KKK hatered.

The white clothes of TDCJ, down on the Darrington unit, hot humid gulf coast, no AC, Brazos River bottoms, gators in the bayous.

Yes Warren Jeffs is a crook, we have space for him in TDCJ.

Eye Witness said...

4:20, your argument reinforces my point. We will never convince anyone of the rightness or the wrongness of another's beliefs. We should, instead focus our efforts on addressng the problem, which most posters on the blog seem to agree is Warren Jeffs and his maniacal thirst for power.

As for your other point, maybe our world here in Schleicher County, Texas isn't peaceful, but it was much more so than it has become before WJ cast his eyes in our direction.

Sorry if this is upsetting, but I don't want him here. On the other hand, I don't want him to slither back to Utah and continue to do his dirty deeds. I want him in jail where he can have done to him what he's been doing to others for so long.

That would be fitting justice. Maybe not the "short rope and tall tree" kind of justice Confused Cowboy wants to exact on WJ, but enough justice to suit me.

Anonymous said...

simplistically speaking, the problem is that in the eyes of the media, public opinion, activists, and internet bloggers it is guilty until proven innocent.

However, in the current judicial system there is this thing called presumtion of innocence. Cases have to tried on factual evidence and sworn testimony which is sometimes damn hard to substantiate. Especially when a lot of the accusations are simply not the truth to begin with.

The sad truth is that sometimes it has to get worse before it can get better. Especially in these types of cases where there is abuse of power and feduciary responsiblity.

Look what it took to depose tyrants like Hitler, and Sadam; because that is what wicked Kings do-- They create their own powerbase of support and control. We may not have to use cruise missles and F-14's, but whatever it does take probably won't be pretty, and we do have to be concerned about collateral damage and innocent victims.

All these wild accusations and unsupported allegations don't help. In fact they make it a harder job.

so for the real eyewitness... "just the facts maam"

Anonymous said...

Just a FYI:

Everything is peaceful at the compound. Women still dress in blues, greens or all whites. Looks like browns would be better for working in the field. They are still cutting rock into brick, but no new brick on temple. Sewer construction is still at a stand still, but sewer main is being installed. They are plowing a field on west side of compound, mainly a caliche ledge – not much of a field but they are working hard. There are several new silos in middle of compound – what for?? New roads and city blocks are being constructed; must be for future expansion. The FLDS in Eldorado has a beautiful city and temple that shows extensive engineering skill and knowledge. I am very impressed!!

ThePilot

Anonymous said...

Thank you piolet. I am one that knows Warren Jeffs is inacent as charged. I do not know who you all are, that hate him. I love him. He is the most brilliant man I have ever known. I have known him for a long time. He would never hurt any one. He helps. He is not a persicutor of any people. We do have a right to believe what we do, tho. Just like all of you do. If it is your religion to hate our religion, that is your right. I hope however none of you realy resort to lynching.

Anonymous said...

Thanks pilot for update, interesting silos in center of YFZ.
Silos storage for food or grain, perhaps they are expecting an extended period where food from outside might not be available.
Perhaps expectation of possible surround by law enforcement. At Waco, David Koresh had buried a school bus as storage, which allowed him to hold out for such a long time. I hope Warren Jeffs is not planning suicide by cop for himself and his follwers. IMO what Koresh did.

Hope that Jeffs is brought to justice and sentenced to prison.

Anonymous said...

Eye Witness...(and others on this post) sounds like you would do anything to get Jeffs behind bars "for the reminder of his natural life."

Are you planning on using the US Constitution as a door-mat?

Anonymous said...

To 10:09 pm

I was curious if you would be able to answer a few questions about Warren? First off, if he is so innocent of the charges being laid against them it seems he would at least defend himself. Instead of hiding within the walls of the compound in Texas. Second, how would you explain him marrying 13 of his mothers the week after Uncle Rulon died? You may think he doesnt persecute anybody but he sure tells us to not talk or associate with others, who do not believe he is "the Prophet," especially "apostates." It seems he is a little worried that by talking to "apostates" your testimony of him might change. What kind of a testimony is one that can be changed by other peoples opinions. You said,"he wouldn't hurt anyone," how would you describe the heartache and pain that must be felt when a man has his family taken away. His wife or wives married to a brother or friend, and his children are told to no longer consider him as their father, and to shun him altogether. Just a few questions I was hoping you would be able to help me to understand.

ATAR said...

What does the Eldorado Sheriff consider proof of breaking the law?

Would a birth certificate stating Warren Steed Jeffs is the father of a baby born to a 15 year old girl do it? How about a half dozen 16 year olds?

We know there are those birth certificates in Utah - too early for many births in Texas.

Local hospitals should be alert to teen girls coming in. Since a girl from that compound will be easy to recognize she can't claim she doesn't know the father - since they aren't really allowed to leave, the father would have to be inside the walls - can a sample be compelled on the basis of her age? As the parents are complicit in these acts - they cannot be relied upon to make these sorts of decisions.

How about your social services. Can the welfare agencies require that the father support the child - as opposed to the state. They may not be married - but these kids *definately have fathers*.

Perhaps if they want state monies they'll have to be more forthcoming about paternity - and once the age of the child is established and the age of the mother is known - it would be easy to find out how old she was when the child was conceived. Any child giving birth under a certain age should be investigated.

Is it possible to have these things done?

ATAR

ATAR said...

Eye Candy

Alright - do you have any eye candy down there in Eldorado?

It's got to be the same way in FLDS - beauty is beauty - girls love it.

Send a few handsome studs whenever you have to get in or near the compound.

I've seen Warren Jeffs and some of those other old guys, they are devoid of all the bountiful blessings of beauty that God has given his 'seeds of Adam' and no priestly blessing will change that

Wouldn't be hard to get a girls attention away from gardening for a few moments. Just get her thinking what might be on the outside of those walls.

atar said...

Just thought that last comment needed a reminder - Yikes - hide your eyes for the more squeeminsh

Sad for us said...

I am one that knows Warren also. I know that he has singlehandedly ruined thousands of peoples lives. He has wrecked their families, invaded their privacy, caused them to go bankrupt. He has done everything except fire the Hitler bullet into the backs of their heads. He has ruined their education, their sons and daughters, and cankered their faith. He has disgraced the saving principles of the gospel, brought disgrace upon Mormonism, and contempt upon a peaceful people. No, he is not innocent.

happyapostate said...

sorry,anon (10:09) nowhere, has a Godly man with concern and love for his fellow man, (and more so when he is in a position of power over them),torn familys apart, demanded money from his people to the point of poverty,caused women to commit adultry,or been so divisive. The gospel of Christ is first,LOVE. anything that holds people down, or destroys the family unit, is not Love and not of GOD!!!
IF God puts man and woman (women?) together, only God can take away.
One more thing, A man is not complete without the woman, so all you people who act like your wives are property, think again...they are your helpmate, not your servant. they have agency also, and can choose to tell you to go to hell if they want ( and I suspect God will be more on there side).

Anonymous said...

Isn't it interesting how history tends to repeat?

http://scriptures.lds.org/1_kgs/12/10#10

Anonymous said...

... and Mosiah 29

21 And behold, now I say unto you, ye cannot dethrone an iniquitous king save it be through much contention, and the shedding of much blood.

22 For behold, he has his friends in iniquity, and he keepeth his guards about him; and he teareth up the laws of those who have reigned in righteousness before him; and he trampleth under his feet the commandments of God;

23 And he enacteth laws, and sendeth them forth among his people, yea, laws after the manner of his own wickedness; and whosoever doth not obey his laws he causeth to be destroyed; and whosoever doth rebel against him he will send his armies against them to war, and if he can he will destroy them; and thus an unrighteous king doth pervert the ways of all righteousness.

24 And now behold I say unto you, it is not expedient that such abominations should come upon you.

onthestreet said...

Fascinating Said:
Did my little rant convince you to change your beliefes? Of course not. Neither do your rants convince me. So, please, let's get back to something a little more constructive. Something like deciding how we can send Warren Jeffs to jail for the remainder of his natural life. God can deal with him after that.

Street's Reply: Okay, how is that constructive. When thousands hold him to be the most innocent man on earth, first of all how many men on earth can claim such loyal esteem from even a dozen citizens of the planet, such as to consider you the greatest and most innocent in existence, let alone thousands!

Now, considering that, how can it be considered constructive, or even intelligible, to place a great and innocent man in jail? What, do you prophecy your own fate? Just as intelligible, no far more so, for anyone to place you in jail, considering that so few witnesses consider you to be the greatest and most innocent person alive. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

So please, let's get back to something far more constructive, something like. . . (and then all mankind on the earth can fill in the blank in 6-billion different ways, considering there are that many people and that many opinions, minus 10,000 FLDS, which is only one opinion 10,000 STRONG!

onthestreet said...

Anony-mouse said: but... "When the wicked rule the people mourn" oops- that was from the Bible. (A wise King with a lot of wives)

P.S. Your world is not peaceful

4/23/2005 4:20 PM

Street's Reply: Right, and Right. America and the world mourns with terror,and millions of exported jobs, and millions of slain babies, and trillions in national debt, and homelessness and disease and doom everywhere. . . "And they shall cry, peace, peach, and there shall be no peace.

That is, everywhere except in the FLDS community, where they buy and build and love and worship God as best as anyone, so much so as to even build him a house to live in. How many people have built a glorious house for the Lord, and then live and encircle around it as one people, according to the Word that says: My people shall be gathered in one place,as one people, and live together in love?

They seem to have cast me out, and spurned me, so like all of you I must be insensed and weap and wail and gnash my teeth, if didn't judge only myself and become what I can be, and let a good people be what they are. The truth is the truth, whether we like it or not. The nation and the world has proven guilty enough to warrent terror, and many reasons to mourn, while the FLDS rejoice and live in peace. If you can't keep up with the Jones', do you turn on them like a good citizen?

Christ was a good citizen, and if the FLDS were your enemy, well: "Love your enemy." This from your Lord and Redeemer. They considered him a lawbreaker, to the point of slaying him, and what happened. The people mourned for two-thousand years.

Anonymous said...

The thing that you have to answer (each for himself) is whether or not you are being persecuted for rightousness sake, or being prosecuted for your own sins. You don't get to have it both ways.

Anony-mouse

Anonymous said...

Ezek. 33: 12

12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

Anonymous said...

thanks a lot, Stinger.
remind me not to include you on my christmas list

mom...yes
dad...yes
wife...yes
kids...yes
neighbors...yes
Stinger...nope, no way

keep sweet eldorado
stg

Anonymous said...

To onthestreet, Ole Warrens days as a free man just may be numbered.

What Jeffs has coming at him is Morris Dees, a name Jeffs better remember, the man who will defeat Jeffs as he has defeated the KKK, and brought to Justice Tom Metzger, so he will do to Warren Jeffs.

Morris Dees is the founder of the Southern Poverty Law Center, a group that never backs down, never gives up to stop racists like Warren Jeffs the KKK wannabe.

http://www.splcenter.org/center/about.jsp

Yes Warren Jeffs will get to wear the prison whites of the (TDCJ) Texas Department of Criminal Justice, Warren Jeffs future Texas home: http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/cid/cid_home.htm

texas Cow Girl said...

Howdy, again I find myself in the unenvyable position of defending the oppressed. This time it is Ruth. Ruth My dear, I was so touched by Your last response, especially the poetic part and I quote "You forgot one thing, the Warren in Me. I love this man" That is so beautiful. But please don't feel like You are alone. Warren has been in a lot of women. You seem like such an an intelligent woman, perhaps You should hustle over to the retreat and marry the man of Your dreams. The sooner You do, the sooner You can get into the rotation. and besides on the 28th of April at the ElPaso Zoo at 11:00 You could catch "The Sounds Of Africa" Just a suggestion for a fun honeymoon. Hey Ruth,know what's cool? I've been thinking. When warren marries one of His Mothers, She is His Wife AND His Mother. So She is Her own Mother and Her own Daughter. AND She is Warrens Wife, Mother, Sister, and Mother in-law, AND Warren is Her Son ,Husband, and Son in-law. Now, if His Wife/Mother/Sister/Mother in-law Has a Daughter/Granddaughter,Niece, and all three were in the same room. Between the three there is a Grandmother,Granddaughter, Father, Mother, Wife, Husband, Son, Sister, Daughter, Mother in-law, Son in-law and a Niece.I hope I didn't miss anything. Looks like You will have lots of relatives for sure. let Me know what else I can do to help.

Anonymous said...

To Texas Cowgirl

"You forgot one thing, the Warren in Me. I love this man" That is so beautiful. But please don't feel like You are alone. Warren has been in a lot of women.

Is the funniest thing I ever heard, even better than before You have outdone yourself.

ATAR said...

Texas Cowgirl, lets mosy on over and see if we can't hook up with Warren too, be celestial (ohhhhhh do you think we could stomach one rotation).

We'll write a review for all other women potentially considering breeding with "Wornout Speed Jetts" my new name for this man plauged with the daunting task of inseminating sooooo many women.

A few questions that need to be answered. Was the work in the fields worth that one night in "Speedy Jetts" arms? Were the hairstyles and garments easy to learn, maintain and work in the fields in?

Do other FLDS sister wives really persecute the younger wife? (well I'd get to be considered younger than a 15 year old) - that WILL feel really good and could perhaps be the highlight of the trip.

OK - but could I make it through the rotation without nausea - I could bring a stash of compazine or phenergan - but then I might get so sleepy I'd miss the whole thing.

Whadya think?

ATAR

Cindy said...

...Word! Thank you for the kind words about none of us going to hell. I don't believe it either... everyone's probably in their religion for some spiritual reason that only god(s?) understand.

Anonymous said...

Question: all you legal professionals. Why is it that Mr. Jeffs cannot have legal charges pressed against him for teaching racial hatred? A case here in Canada got a Teacher locked up for several years for teaching that the halocoust never existed.

Anonymous said...

"Fascinating" for sure:

There's one thing about all this hyperbole that amazes me. What Grand Jury has been empaneled? Where are the complaints and indictments? All the rest is more or less moot--fascinating, but moot.

This blog is like an unbelievable soap opera on steroids, everyone has their own view of religion, the Bible and personal choices, but I hope there is one common denominator through it all--that common interest is the Constitution of the United States.

I think the Constitution trumps all other speculation, opinion and conjecture. Due process and equal protection under the law must be observed to protect the rights of all Americans. If we can agree on that, then we are still a civilized nation. If not, maybe we can get Dubya to come and make the great state of Texas safe for democracy.

In the mean time, get a complaint, get a warrant, get an arrest, get a trial, get a conviction--or, for hell sakes, get a life . . .

Anonymous said...

To 10:34
The last time I looked, bigamy and polygamy are still against the law.

Anonymous said...

I agree. If WJ is innocent, why doesn't he come forward? Come on Rod Parker, bring your client out and let him say publicly that he is innocent of wrong doing.

Oops, I forgot. He can't show his face in public lest he be arrested.

Eye Witness said...

Let me see if I understand, if I disagree with your view of religion then you pronounce me a religious bigot, but you're free to disagree with my views. That hardly seems fair.

Neither does it seem fair that Ross and Lori Chatwin have their utilities disconnected by the auhorities in Hildale simply because they are willing to stand up to WJ. Thank goodness they town's attorney was finally consulted and the power and water were turned back on.

Who looks like a religious bigot now?

Anonymous said...

There are complaints, there are warrants, there may be an arrest, there will be trials, with or without an arrest, there will be convictions, with or without a defendant, and the sentence may be "life".

It will be poetic justice that any prison time will be spent in a a largely black prison population.

Anonymous said...

The "turkey baster defense" may not be enouigh this time around.

Anonymous said...

To answer the legal polygamy acusations:

It is perfectly legal in Texas to have one wife and as many girlfriends as you want (or vise-versa). Half of Eldorado has been like that for years!

Nothing new!

Anonymous said...

To 11:33:
I resent your accusation that half of Eldorado sleeps around. It isn't true. There are a few who do, just like any town in America, but not half, not anywhere near half. And to use that as a smokescreen to excuse Warren Jeffs and his followers who not only take multiple wives, but who keep them as mere chatel behind locked gates, is unacceptable.

Anonymous said...

Warren says it takes at least three wives to get to heaven.

I have had my three wives. Can I go to heaven now?

Anonymous said...

Regarding the case of the teacher in Canada:

Is that seriously true that he/she got locked up for several years for SAYING something? Because if that is the case, Canada sounds closer to Russia than the US.

Now, I'm no legal expert, but I can promise you one thing: our founding fathers died to ensure us that very liberty. To be able to say (or even teach) something that may or may not be true, may be disagreeable or even slanderous and NOT have to spend our productive years behind bars. Ye Gods! What kind of a nation is Canada where they lock up teachers for saying something wrong. Don't you have entertainers or rap stars that say something just as bad? Why aren't THEY locked up?
Remind me to stay out of Canada.

Anonymous said...

I hear that in Eldorado, you don't lose your wife, you just lose your turn.

Anonymous said...

To ANON 4/25/2005 1:25 PM

That may be true, be we have sheep!

It's a place where " men are men and sheep ( or goats ) are scared'!!

Anonymous said...

to 10:34 am

truth is stranger than fiction. in some cases this blog serves as an outlet to pent up feelings that can not be released elsewhere.
most who are in the know don't dare to stand up and say what they know else they loose what they have, or hope to keep it anyway.
but just like the jews in the nazi germany, they won't make waves in hopes that they will be passed over undetected. But they are wrong. Their turn will come. They are nothing to Warren, only to be used as slave labor and discarded.

But they pushed one too far on me. When they came to disconnect my power and water I had media there to video it, and low and behold, they turned it back on in an hour. oops, we made a mistake. Oh boy, you sure did!

If they would do that to us, they would do it to others.

woman who stayed with her man-

Hose A. Kwervo said...

Actually, Texas men are so good at what they do that none of the Texas women are willing to share!

Viva Tejas!

Eye Witness said...

Hooray for the woman who stayed with her man! And, hooray for the man who stood up to the so-called prophet and refused to let his family be run over!

See, there are some strong people in Short Creek. Now if we could just get some of the recent transplants to Texas to do the same.

Anonymous said...

STREET

Warren is no inocent and you know it. Dumb followers doesn't prove innocense and Warren isn't the first nor I dare say the last who will claim thousands of lazy followers who wish to be taken to heaven without thinking for themselves, sure salvation, just do what I say, easy!

Some one start Street his own string like you did for Ruth, you are in for a lot of baloney.

woman who stayed with her man-

Anonymous said...

To 11:44:
"I resent your accusation that half of Eldorado sleeps around. It isn't true. There are a few who do......."

Now you know what it feels like.

That's what this forum is for: Accusations, inuendos, allegations, outright lies, etc, etc, etc.

What? It's only funny if it isn't someone "exposing" the "truth" about you?

.45 auto said...

Just bring your hotshot prophet and meet me on Divide Street in Eldorado. Then we'll see who thinks what is funny!

Seriously, protect ol' WJ 'lest he the Woman who stays with her man gets her hands on him. Personally, I think she can take him.

Won't happen though. He's too busy cowering in fear behind his wives skirts.

Anonymous said...

To 11:44 - I bet you find more little pregnant girls under the age of 16 in Eldorado than at the compound. And that IS no exaggeration! You can stop the “holier than thou” attitude. Anyone who lives here knows that we have several cases of incest, pedophiles and local perverts every year. None are Mormon to my knowledge.

Anonymous said...

What is the population of Eldorado?

Anonymous said...

Poulation is about 1800 in the county. School has aprox 580 kids.(Pre K - 12).

http://www.city-data.com/city/Eldorado-Texas.html

Anonymous said...

To woman who stayed with her man, 3:04 PM:

I know who you are and I like who you are. I like the fact that you are standing up to the church of the City of Hildale--branch of the FLDS Church.

They are trying to promote the agenda of the FLDS Church regarding the issuance and renewal of leases in the industrial park. Mayor Zitting better be very careful in rejecting the renewal of existing leases by non-FLDS applicants. If he's not careful, he could be serving the rest of his mayoral term at the "Point of the Mountain."

By the way, woman who stayed with her man, if you can find a few other "real men" like your guy, you might even be able to restore the separation of church and state in the Twin Cities and actually have a government that is religiously neutral.

Anonymous said...

ok lets see 1800 x 51% = 918 Women
divided by 2 Woah! Thats 459 women sleeping around ?

ok just kidding... but hey! That's how Flora does her fuzzy math.

Anonymous said...

And It would have helped if the women who choose to stay with her man, would have choosen to pay there electic bill. May be they would be good for something besides fighting. First it was to fight for what Warren Jeffs had given them. Then it was to say he was a hitler like dictator. Then She said she read Natzi books. Then it was to try to kick her husbands brother out. He left peacabley. Now it is to get the Media to pay there electric bill. Strange how you people think. There is not a man alive who has had one women. I will take Warrens ways any day. He at least is not ashamed of his women. Like the ones who traverse the bar. Wonder who this brave, brave, brave, brave, Ross will sponge off next?

Anti-Warrenite said...

Reply to 4:39
Is there no end to the lies Warren's peons will spread about those who had the guts to say NO! Check your facts you sniveling imbecile. Then go get some spelling lessons. Oh, I forgot, you're using the celestial alphabet.

Stinger said...

stg, I can't believe you would take me off your christmas list. That is just plain not keeping sweet. What did I do? You aren't blaming me for onthestreet, are you? (BTW, I still haven't figured out if streety is male or female, possibly hermafrodite.) I thought y'all would be pleased with streety/fruity, it has soooo much to offer toward intelligent conversation.(At least if you consider talking with rocks "intelligent conversation.) ROFLMAO
Don't hate, appreciate.

Stinger said...

4/25/2005 4:39 PM, Um, I have only had one woman. Last I checked I am very much alive. I know you are still trying to convince yourself that warren is an okay guy so I will forgive you on that insult. Please don't post anything, ever again. I think your intelligence level peaked long ago and you have been going downhill since then.

onthestreet said...

texas Cow Girl said...
Howdy, again I find myself in the unenvyable position of defending the oppressed. This time it is Ruth. Ruth My dear, I was so touched by Your

Street's Reply: You didn't defend anybody. You just grossly insulted her, and showed how degraded you are. If that is representative of Texas, Schliecher County, and Eldorado, then the joke is really on you all. I'm of the mind to take you to a lashing like I do on the Canadian Blog, but I don't feel inclined to say much here. Measure yourselves. You'll see alot more of my mind over there.

onthestreet said...

Anony-mouse Said: but just like the jews in the nazi germany, they won't make waves in hopes that they will be passed over undetected. But they are wrong. Their turn will come. They are nothing to Warren, only to be used as slave labor and discarded.

But they pushed one too far on me. When they came to disconnect my power and water I had media there to video it, and low and behold, they turned it back on in an hour. oops, we made a mistake. Oh boy, you sure did!

If they would do that to us, they would do it to others.

woman who stayed with her man-

4/25/2005 3:04 PM

Street's Reply: Has it come to that, you think? America like Nazi Germany.

Texas Cow Girl said...

On The Street Said; Blah blah blah blah blah blah (yawn) blah blah blah blah blah blaa etc.
Cow Girl says: Good to have You on board. I'll bet our friend Warren is just pinching himself over his incredible good fortune to have You ,Me and Ruth as His spokespersons. How could He possibly have found anyone better. You should be proud. I'm looking forward to working with You to dispel the rumors and lies told about this wonderful man.

Anonymous said...

Stinger

....yep he found us alright... he's too aggressive to be a she....maybe gay and heterophobic?

on the flip side, I'm thinking a guy like him could get dangerous. bad combination. smart, aggressive, sick minded, lonely, no social skills, no tact, no humility. I was thinking about doing a song parody on him from Eminem's 'Stan', but after reviewing the lyrics I realized this guy fits the bill. (could care less if he drives his car into a lake, but I'd worry for the person in the trunk.)

in fact I'd consider closing the fruit stand...quite frankly, it stinks

keep sweet eldorado
stg

Stinger said...

texas cowgirl, beware the lashing from ol' fruity. He's got us crying over on the Canadian blog. Just like a mosquito. Pretty harmless, but annoying as hell. Though the buzzing of a mosquito has a lot more meaning to it andis way more understandable.

Men In Black said...

Eye Witness
&
Woman Who Stayed With Her Man

Who is now the legal council in Hildale? Is it still Ron W. Thompson?

MIB

Anonymous said...

What's this about a Canadian blog? Where can I find it?

Stinger said...

www.sharethelight.com/b2

Anonymous said...

Thankya.

Anonymous said...

Or, in Colorado City lingo.....

"Preeshaateya!"

Anonymous said...

or is that
"Preeshaatecha"

Anonymous said...

To: Woman who Stayed with Her Man,

How's the future second wife coming? Has Ross brought her to your bed yet? I hear she is much older than Ross, perhaps she will teach him a few tricks that will benifit you too.

Are you as excited as I am that now you can participate in anti-Warren polygamy?

You will only be one step away from Warren now. What next, your own church? You'll need members to trade daughters with. Tell us what your really up to. Hey, maybe a press conference......

GBNF

Anonymous said...

GBNF,I am not a poygamist and I am not going to defend it.Please tell me why you have such a problem with Ross and his wife??

Who are you and who do you represent??

Anonymous said...

GBNF,

nice sucker punch

proud of yourself?

Ross and Lori have been living the whole FLDS thing all their lives. only one year later what do you expect?

Lori strolling the california beaches in a bikini?
Ross thursday nights at the bowling alley?

keep sweet eldorado
stg

if someone around here were really thinking.... eldorado aught to scrape up some funds and hire Lori on as a consultant, pay their moving expenses so they and their kids can get out of that little city of madness. even if it doesn't work out, the worse that can happen is eldorado will gain two fantastic citizens and 6 kids will get a wonderful new world to grow up in.

Anonymous said...

GBNF- what does that stand for? You sound an awful lot like Street, only not a Warrenite.

There was no bill to pay. our account was cought up when Ross' brother had the utilities put into his name, against our express wishes. When he left, it was also paid up. He told them to close out his account. After giving us the runaround for weeks and not letting us get an account at all, they decided to cut us off anyway. I blame that one on Willy T. seperation of Church and State? They did not even accept our offer to pay in advance.
After media attention and a talk with the city attorney who said that turning off our utilities was a big mistake, they turned the power and water back on, an hour after turning them off.

Woman who stayed with her Man-

Anonymous said...

It gets jucier, but I'll save that for my book.

Woman who stayed with her Man-

Anonymous said...

I remind that GBNF means: gone but not forgotten. I lived there. It seems that once you leave, common opinon is that you no longer remember what you lived with.

So, you that are not a polygamist: I have information that you do not. I harbor no grudge against Ross or his wife. In fact, they are both amiable people. I know that Ross is currently seeking more wives. And has one on the line. Frankly, I feel pity for Lori, she has been trained to accept her husband taking other women into their family. And, I also know that she has no clue as to how hard it actually is once the damage is done. Ross has believed in polygamy his whole life and will not betray his beliefs.

I notice that Lori has not answered my question, ask her why if you doubt my information. I have only asked that they tell ya'll the truth about what they really believe in. And I want to point out that all levels of polygamy entail abuse, to the women and children. It is not a victimless crime. Don't believe me? Try it. Then lets have a conversation.

And for sending Ross and Lori to Texas:
Build a big house, it will be more that two adults and six kids. And watch out for Ross, your daughters will be more at risk with him in town than Warren. He will romance them. Warren on the other hand wants only the ones he has personally programmed. Eldorado's daughters are not at risk from Warren. It is the wolf in sheeps clothing to guard against.

GBNF

Anonymous said...

GBNF
Sorry about not giving you a satisfactory answer. Didn't mean to ignore your question. Um, which one was so important?
I actually had a nice long post ready, spell checked and everything but the site had a moment of congestion I guess and I had to start all over.

Chances of my getting another wife are pretty slim. And no the secretary isn't it. She has her own life even if she did stand up for polygamy in the St George summit.
Ross will not take a woman that I do not approve of, like you said, it could be hell. I do have a good idea what I would be dealing with. But if the right one came along I would accept her into my family. As an equal, not subservient.

If we are going to converse on this subject more, it should probably get it's own string too.

woman who stayed with her man-

Anonymous said...

To Woman,

Ross is a slick little dickens. I wish you well, and hope you can retain sufficient grasp on his jingle-jangles. Keep 'em honest!

GBNF

Anonymous said...

Oh, I forgot to ask, did he help pay off the secretary's credit card he used to romance her with?

GBNF

Anonymous said...

GBNF
Again I will ask you WHO ARE YOU AND WHO DO YOU REPRESENT.You are so comfortable attacking the Chatwinns,now lets talk about YOU.

Anonymous said...

Texans,Ex-flds,can't we all just agree to dis-agree and find some
way to get rid of Warren?Everyone
i've seen post ,with the exception of Ruth and Street must surely agree to this?Texans rake your brains,Ex-Fldss rake your brains,enough of this eternal argueing,Lets us all focus on our goal,Warren behind Bars!!We're Wasting Time!!!!

Anonymous said...

I am anonymous, just like you. Why would I want to put myself under scrutiny? I did not volunteer to be on display like some of the others. If I opened myself up to you, I am sure you could find fault aplenty.

Hey, I grew up in "the Creek". Why else do you think I have such a bad attitude? Why do you think I am so sarcastic?

I may be the perfect example of why no one should raise children in plural marriage. Yes, I am bitter, angry, and disgusted with the life I was offered. I would like for other children to not have to face the road I have traveled. Stop the madness!

GBNF

Anonymous said...

GBNF
Can we agree that Ross and Lori are doing a great job at exposing Warren for what he really is.If yes, then why don't you back off.If no, then it would appear that you are trying to discredit them, WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT??

onthestreet said...

To Anonymous (4/27/2005 7:25 PM):

Street's Reply: That's right, as you said, all of Texas and ex-FLDS "just disagree, rake your brains, in eternal aruing, wasting our time," as you put it. Well put, putt putt.

"And they shall cry, "Peace, Peace," and there shall be no peach.

Anonymous said...

I do not think that someone who participates in the same evil that begat Warren Jeffs can battle him effectively.
Warren Jeffs will defeat himself. It does not take a hero to stand up for oneself. It takes a mere man.
Warren Jeffs is only a man. And so is Ross Chatwin (Wyler).
The secret to defeating Warren is for the people to quit giving up their free will to him. Sorry folks, the cult will die only when there are no more followers.

GBNF

Anonymous said...

GBNF
Not A*****, not M******,
Larry?

Anonymous said...

Or is it D*****, if so, why are you so angry? I think it is you. What's with?

Anonymous said...

You got me! How did you guess?
Good Job!
Hit me with your best shot! Spill my dirt!

GBNF

Anonymous said...

Why would I want to do that? I have always been suportive of you. I did let folks know who I am but I didn't hang all of my dirty laundry up for them to see, nor did I invite you to. we do still want to be friends don't we? Brother?

Anonymous said...

How to get Warren?:

Why not use the RICO statutes. He's dealing in extortion--Pay $1,000 a month in tithing or who knows, you might get a visit from Bishop Timpson (Jessop) asking you to leave if you protest. After all, protesting would show lack of faith in the profit.

All this reassigning of women? Looks to me like if you resist any of Warren's "higher teachings" and you've run out of tithing (protection money) then you lose your family, your home and your life.

Interstate commerce is involved so the federal racketeering statute is a no-brainer. And the advantage with the racketeering statute is all the property is consficated by the government. The homes on trust land could be deeded back to the rightful owners and the YFZ could be used as a "Hunting Retreat."

ATAR said...

EX-FLDS & LORI

You guys have been invaluable in helping us understand, and hopefully helping those currently FLDS to re-examine that lifestyle.

Not just because it's illegal, or the vast majority of is think it's beyond odd, but because, the Mormon Church ws wrong on other accounts - isn't that why you split from them?

Did they get this one wrong too? (remember it was the Victorian era) When this 'revelation came' perhaps Smiths wife wasn't 'enthusaistic' in some respects - or perhaps, the revelation had more carnal seeds. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

But, if nothing else, remember that something so destructive to children could not possibly be the fruit of something born of God. Born of man - yeah most likely - but not God.

As someone from the NON-FLDS World I will tell you that your child being taken away by Warren packs a whole lot more punch if Ross has only one wife. It makes his taking her more scandalous.

I think a polygamist marriage would minimize your fight for your daughter.

I would encourage you to search the internet about Joseph Smiths revelation on Polygamy. How true was it? And how did a man with so many wives have so few children?

Just re-examine the concept of it - for your childrens sake.

Anonymous said...

Did Ross and Lori get their power back on?I look forward to reading your book,Butterfly,When can we expect it?

Anonymous said...

4/25/2005 4:25 PM
ok lets see 1800 x 51% = 918 Women
divided by 2 Woah! Thats 459 women sleeping around ?

ok just kidding... but hey! That's how Flora does her fuzzy math.
***********************************
GET THE FACTS STRAIT
Schleicher County has 3,000 people.(YFZ Property not included)
Eldorado has 1,951 inside city limits.
School District has 568 students and falling....
Now you can redo your calculations!

Another fact.....Yes, Eldorado has it's share of wife or girl friend swapping, (like the Warrenites) so to speak good examples to their children. But, as a whole, the PEOPLE OF ELDORADO ARE GOOD FOLKS!

Anonymous said...

Yes the power is back on. They turned it back on an hour and 10 minutes after they turned it off, it was the water too by the way. They weren't expecting the barage of media that I had ready for them when they turned it off. Don't know why not, they should have been. The SLTrib lady called the Mayor of Hildale to get an interview with him about the event and sugested that it was not good to have this bad publicity so soon after being put on the hate group list. HE he he, he said, if we figure out how to get the utilities back on will there not be a story? HA HA HA. Well, he called the city attorney who said that it was a big mistake to have turned the utilities off in the first place with our life estate court ruling, and to get them back on now!

The book is gathering information, and is waiting for an ending, ie. Warren's demise.

Anonymous said...

To Annon 4/25/05 4:39 p.m.

Annon said "There is not a man alive who has had one women. I will take Warrens ways any day. He at least is not ashamed of his women."

What on earth would posses you to think that every man alive has had more than one woman. Just because you have seen Warren pass the women of "the creek" around like bargaining chips doesnt mean the rest of the world does the same. I have been happily married for 5 years. My wife was the first girl I ever slept with, and I did not sleep with her until after we were married. Would you please define for me what "Warrens way" is. If you mean take wives from supposedly "unworthy men" and give them to someone a little more devoted to Warren, I think that is completely immoral and uttertly disgusting. Any man that would take his brothers or best friends wives and children because Warren told them to is going to have an awful lot to atone for on judgement day. You said that Warren is not ashamed of his women, then why are they locked up in the YFZ compound?

Anonymous said...

I have had several wives, and countless girlfriends. Does that make me a polygamist? I don't want to give this up, but I would have a lot less trouble with the state attorney general if I had been born queer. Child support is a killer. Do polygamists pay child support? If you do not, that would really piss off a lot of Texas folk who are paying your child support for you.

Anonymous said...

Count me a another of those "one-woman" men.

Never before marriage, and nobody else in the 25 years since.

I don't consider myself "wierd" for that. I think it is still quite common.

When somebody says "everybody does it", he really isn't saying anything about everybody. But he does make a clear statement about himself.

Anonymous said...

---------------
GET THE FACTS STRAIT Schleicher County has 3,000 people
---------------

Why? Don't need to be all that accurate when you are making slanderous allegations.

It's the emotion we are after here!
The public outcry. Guilty! Until proven innoncent.

So the numbers go UP?
Why isn't someone DOING SOMETHING about this problem?

Anonymous said...

The only way Scheicher County would have three thousand people ( including compounds ) is if you count the traffic on 277.

Anonymous said...

Check the census doofus!

Anonymous said...

To Anon 4/29/2005 12:48 PM:

I have looked it up. Schleicher County had an estimated 2816 max in 2003 with a 6.8 percent decline in 2004 and 9.2 decline in 2005. Conservative estimate including compound is: 2420.

Also your local school has RIFed several teacher positions because your student population has declined dramatically in the lst two years. All can be verified; look at the headlines of your local paper, DUFUS!!

So what does that prove? Nothing other than no one wants to live in Eldorado but people who get kicked out of San Angelo, oil field transients, and FLDS. Have you noticed an increase in drug arrests and crime rate? Your sheriff and DPS has an all time high arrest record of drug arrests in Schleicher County in the last 3 years. All can be statistically verified, DUFUS!

Anonymous said...

Will both of you dufusses shut up about the poulation, come on people can't you remember what this thread is about..

Anonymous said...

hey... this is working. We got the local D.U.F.U.S. (whatever that stands for?) fighting, about crap that doesn't matter ... and all based on some stupid scandalous allegation by someone who doesn't have a clue. Just "good" at doing the math.

See how it feels.

Anonymous said...

Hey, Not Forgotten, what happened to you? Did I scare you away?

Texas Cow Girl said...

On The Street said; "I,m of the mind to take You a lashing.
Tcg response; I'm not into that sort of thing You pervert. I feel grossly insulted.
On The Street said: "MeasureYourselves"
Tcg's response: Hey everyone. Street is a guy.

Anonymous said...

Hey, TCG, welcome back! It's always very refreshing to laugh at your comments after the load of bull. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

To 4/30/2005 12:49 AM:

Not scared, bored...Give me something to sink my teeth into.

Good, to see TCG posting again!

GBNF

Anonymous said...

By the way onthestreet, what are your measurements?

Hose A. Kwervo said...

I think Street is one messed up dude. Maybe his problem is that he spends too much time measuring himself. Maybe he likes it too much. Hey dude, find yourself a woman.

onthestreet said...

Eye Witness Said (in starting this thread): Thirdly, nowhere, and I mean nowhere in the Bible does it say that God turned Cain's skin black. It says God placed a mark on Cain, but nothing about being black.

Street's Reply: Well then, you are no "Eye Witness." You need to look, and ask, and knock, and seek, or you won't find. The truth is deep, like a well, or else your well is dry.

Let's go deep. In the Hebrew, "Mark" (of Cain)is "Owth" which means "Beacon, evidence." The black man shines like a beacon. If you ever looked at a BLACK light, it's like a beacon. It lights things up in a very special way. There you have Mark and Black meaning the same thing.

There is more, much more, if you were an "Eye Witness" to conceive of it. Another word for "Mark" is "Cuwk" (in the Biblical Hebrew): To smear over. The black of his skin smears him over, or covers his lightness.

The Greek for Mark is "Charagma: Graven, stamp, as a badge of servitude." (not my words, the words of the language itself). A grave is dark, so there you have "Mark" and "Blackness" relating again to each other.

There is more, if you were an "Eye Witness" to conceive of it. Much more. I'll refrain for brevity's sake, and to spare you all further. When you all say: "There is nothing about this, and that, you simply lie, ignorantly perhaps.

The black race is very colorful, and fulfills its destiny far better than other races fulfill theirs.

Anonymous said...

Gee, street! Your logic is "illuminating". You know, like a black light. That means that your logic is like Cain, or evil.
Have you ever noticed that WHITE lights are beacons, too? That means "mark" and "white" are the same thing too, by your definitions. So does that mean that God struck Cain white? HMMM.
You are one seriously screwed up person. If you don't get help at Charter, please, get help somewhere.

ATAR_i said...

Anon 12:55

You say 'hmmmm', like bees say bzzzz you must be like the bee flying from flower to flower making them bloom - like boom - oh no - does that mean the world is ending?

hehehe how did I do?

We should make up a whole new area - Nonsense talk - see who can come up with the best stuff - Street can post exclusively in there - of course any visitor will think this board is for absolute lunatics - and they should be forwarned - there are only uhhhhhh 2 or 3 by my count.

Anonymous said...

Perfect! It's called "free association" and it's best practiced under the influence of drugs, or in street's case, psychosis. I loved that part about "graven image" becoming the "grave". Too, too brilliant. Rather like going bowling in your salad bowl chopping vegetables/slashing people oh no i mean oh yes the world is finally ending all you wicked people will finally get what's coming to you nyeah nyeah.

ATAR_i said...

OK - I'm not good at it - But thanks for the info -

Anon 1:32 who are you?

Faithful Woman said...

I'm still looking for Gone But Not Forgotten

Anonymous said...

Where are you looking?
And Why are you looking?
I am here, just been too busy to check the blog often.
Regardless of my unhealthy obsession with this blog, I do have a real life. LOL
GBNF

Faithful Woman said...

LOL, yeah me too.
I have a personal intrest in you since your attack on me and mine. Seems you disapeared after that. Just wanted to let you know that you are still remembered. I did see a few of your posts lately on other strings.

GBNF said...

Not meant to be an attack exactly...I just like people to be honest with themselves and everyone else.

I have many 2-cents, perhaps too many.

Anonymous said...

It's hard to get an individual who has been charged of a crime into the legal system. First, a complaint has to be filed by the injured party. Second, the evidence is reviewed by the district attorney to determine if the complaint warrants investigation. Third, if an investigation determines that there is sufficent evidence to issue a warrant for arrest then the accused appears before a magistrate to have bond set, if applicable Fourth, the evidence is heard by a grad jury who then determines if a crime has been committed and only then vote to indict or not idcict the felon. Only after all these hoops have been cleared may the case proceed to trial.

Not being a lawyer I may have over-looked something. Anyone who knows what I've missed blease add to this bit of information.

onthestreet said...

Anony: not idcict the felon??? Only after all these hoops have been cleared may the case proceed to trial.

Ummm, are you American? Do you claim a belief in justice? How about due process? From the above, it looks obvious that you are none of the above. You see, you don't start with a "felon" and then "proceed to trial"! Gees, ain't that a little backwards. And the forum all agrees, and cries: "Amen and Amen.! Unless of course, they too are Taliban or from some like country. I just thought you loved America. I hoped you did, anyway.

onthestreet said...

I guess, after that post, some of you will STILL be saying "HUH"!!!! My point well taken. Most of you have failed! You still don't know, or recognize, or accepts that no man or woman is ever a felon, UNTIL proven a felon to the nth degree, to the "court of last resort", and that goes all the way to the Supreme Court of Heaven. Only then, is you is you, and I am who I am.

Stinger said...

I do not like you Sam I am, I do not like green eggs and ham.

Stinger said...

"He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know."
- Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

Anonymous said...

you go, Stinger (and Abe)!

onthestreet said...

The most into the smallest. That's infinity.

Stinger said...

Infinitely small.

onthestreet said...

Yes, my LITTLE man. Doesn't it sound good, being one of Jesus' "Little Ones?"

Faithful Woman said...

shame shame stinger, haveing a battle of whits with an unarmed person

Stinger said...

Not so much as having a battle. More like showing fruity what a wit looks like, in case he ever wants to get one.

onthestreet said...

Let me see, "Wit": Anything to do with wit-ness? To find out, discover, convey positive assurance
(informed, mind). Ahh, mind. Yup, got one.

Stinger said...

Thankyou fruity. You have made our point for us.