Saturday, March 19, 2005

Uncle?

What's with all this "Uncle" business? Is everybody really somebody's uncle?

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

Aunt and Uncle are used to show respect for someone.

Anonymous said...

I wonder what "Uncle" Fred thougth when he found himself standing before the King of Kings trying to explain why he fell for all of Joseph Smith's baloney. He probably fared little better than Joseph himself.

Still wondering how you people explain that jot and tittle thing.

Standing on the Promises in Texas

Anonymous said...

To standing on the promises in texas. Some day you will have to stand before the King of Kings and you will Know.

Anonymous said...

We will all stand in judgement before the King of Kings and each one of us will have to answer for the things we did or did not do in life. But there is only one book given to us through Gods divine revelation to man and that’s the Holy Bible, Revelation Chapter 22 Verse 18 & 19 clearly states (NIV) "warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book:" If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book (19) If anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book (The Holy Bible). Gods word has endured for thousands of years and has remained unchanged the other book has only been around since the 1800,s and I believe it does test the final words given by God to man in revelations. Which ever direction you choose, be lead by the Holy Spirit and seek the truth.

Anonymous said...

Standing on the Promises in Texas, If I were you, and half as smart as you pretend to be, I'd be REALLY careful what I said about Joseph Smith. After all, the King of Kings just might not judge you too lightly.

Anonymous said...

Aunt and Uncle are titles of love and respect, and of relatives.
to anon. 1:06pm the word of God isn't just what is said in the Bible word for word. It is no secret that the bible has been translated many times throughout the years. There are many versions of the Bible, so many that an English king James had all of the known versions of his time compaired and put together. A signature of Shakespear can even be found in it. You can't take the Bible word for word as all of God's word.
When Ged speaks of adding or taking from his word he means the doctrines, not just the writen bible.

Anonymous said...

To the 2:07pm anon, do you believe Joseph Smith is God or the Son of God?

Antique Mormon said...

"Uncle" among the fundamentalist people is a title of respect. The mainstream LDS Church uses their titles of President, Bishop etc. in place of the fundamentalist Uncle title. When a man like Fred Jessop, who has spent his life kindly helping everyone that he possibly could help, crosses your trail, it doesn't take long before you feel a kindred feeling. "Uncle" then becomes an easy title. By the way, for 8:31, Joseph Smith never pretended to be God, but Christians the world over believe that they are the children of God. In that same context was Joseph Smith, and perhaps you yourself, a son of God.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for clearing that up, Antique Mormon! I am a believer and therefore a son of God (Romans 8:13-17, Galatians 3:26-29) but not THE Son of God. According to scripture, Jesus is the one and only Son of God (John 3:16 - emphasis on "one and only Son") and therefore a deity, unlike myself or Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith is dead, as I will also be one day. He was human like me and as such we have both been given the same opportunity to accept or deny Christ as the risen savior and the ONLY way to salvation (John 14:6). Also I've never read in the Bible that I have been offered deity as a reward after death, but eternal life in Heaven with God the Father, which is much better if you ask me...hope to see you there! That's my understanding of the Bible.

Anonymous said...

I will say, from talking to a bible believing people only, that most of what they say is true. One women said she would be a servant. I agree, she probably will. ONe person said, they will not become a God. I supose they are right. Some people who believe in th bible, do not believe God was ever a man, yet, it state's plainly, God made the earth, and man after his own image. The Bible and the book of morman, is tesomonies of people that lived before we did, and a record of what God did with the Wicked and the rigtouse. Some of these Bible people say the word of God could not be changed, yet when I sat in there church, they all read out of different printed bible book's. I had to put mine down, and just listen to the preacher, and then he preached according to what the people wanted to hear, not he word of God, as was written, in the book. They would read a little of a passage, to prove their point, and skip, most of the entire message. The principles in the bible and the one's in the book of morman, are basicly the same. Honesty, Love , virtue, chastity, and so forth........The principle of celesial marraige was lived with Abraham, Isacc and Jacob. It was lived in Joeseph Smith's day, and it is lived in our current day. I say believe what you want. Let us worship too. The spirit of hatred and predjudice is from the devil. The spirit of peace is from God. It is written, "let there be no disput among you" I would sugest if you want to argue about God, wait until you meet him, and argue it out with him. NOne of us are so big, that with out his earth, and his great mercy, we would even breath. would you want to be persicuted for what you believe, and how you interprit the bible? as to the aunt and uncle thing: What a thing to squabble over. It is a title of respect and love!

Anonymous said...

12:50,

You are right about some things and seem to have a very pure and sweet spirit.

I would like to clear up confusion about the Word of God not being changed and how there are many different versions of the Bible. If you will compare two, three, or even all of the different "versions" (New International Version, King James, New King James, New International Standard, The Living Bible, etc.) they all say the same basic thing verse for verse, but use different wording. These versions are all different interpretations of the original transcripts, but follow it in meaning.

You are mistaken to believe that anything has been added or changed in translation to any of these versions of the Bible. I would challenge you (if you ever have the opportunity) to test what I am saying. Pick any verse from one version and compare it side by side to another version. Do this all day throughout the Bible with any translation and you will see that I speak the truth!

Good luck,

jb

Anonymous said...

To 12:50 AM:

Many of the things you say make sense, in the simplistic logic and language that you expressed. This demonstrates that you do know how to reason. But, don’t you think it would be helpful if you worked on your grammar, spelling, punctuation and sentence structure, as well as your religious philosophy?

Joseph Smith once said. "A man [or woman] is saved no faster than he [or she] gains knowledge." Don’t be afraid to go to school and learn a few things before you presume to graduate to the celestial kingdom.

Anonymous said...

I would not chalange the word of god. He did bring forth the books. It is stated clearly gods laws upon them. I do not know how all churches are. I spoke from my experience. I agree, the message in the books are all universally the same. love builds love. hate builds hate. this is a principle of the gospel. I enjoyed your post.
to all that critasise my spelling: If that is the only fault I ever have, i will be ok. some of you claim god saves the worst of sinners. I think he may get a good laugh out of my spelling.

Anonymous said...

Yes, I think he will. And he will allow you in his good graces as far as anyone knows. I hope we all make it there. But please open your mind to beleive that there are good people wherever you are, and there are bad people wherever you are. Nobody has to be a member of a certain religion to make it to the Celestial Kingdom. Nobody has to have more than one wife to make it there either. And certainly nobody has to follow Warren Jeffs to make it to God's good graces! If you are perfectly happy where you are, stay there by all means. But don't judge so harshly the people who don't agree with Warren and have left there to pursue their own happiness and well-being. Warren teaches you to shun us live a pack of wolves. That interprets right up there next to hate if you ask me. Show love for all! That is God's will.

Anonymous said...

I make no judgement on any one. I however do not have to be subjected to people who make no secret, that they hate me, and my culture. I am very likable. I have also had people who liked me, until they found out I loved Warren Jeffs. I then have to listen about how brain washed and stupod I am. I think christianism, works both ways. How many of you were ready to vote us off the earth, because of others predudice and hatred?

Anonymous said...

Many of us are caught between feeling outraged about the behavior in the group and feeling sympathy for the members within - especially the women and children.

No matter what you say, polygamy is way out of the social norm - why else do you think so many people are freaked out by your presence in Eldorado?

How are the people in Eldorado doing, by the way - I mean the people "outside" the compound?

Anonymous said...

I can not help it if society has strayed so far from the bible, and the bible social norm. I live the law of Abraham, Isacc, and Jacob. I do not have an issue with you living according to your veiw.I how-ever have a right to live according to my social veiws, with out fear of persicution.

Anonymous said...

If you will study the Old Testament characters - Abraham, Isaac, David, and Soloman, you will discover that they were doing what they wanted to do - in the weakness of the flesh, not in the power of the Holy Spirit! As professed followers of Christ, we are to live according to God's standards.

The men in the Bible were just that - MEN - susceptible to human weakness and error. They were wrapped up in the "social norms" of their day. Does that make it right? What would be interesting is for you to study what God's response was to their behavior. You will find that God did not bless any of them for this particular practice. In fact, (especially for Abraham and David) punishment and turmoil followed.

Sounds kind of like what we have going on right now in the FLDS church.

Anonymous said...

To anonymous 4:15 PM, in regard to the Bible and polygamy:

Abraham is known as, "the father of the faithful." See James 2: 23; Rom. 4: 16; Gal. 3: 8,9,16,29.

God blessed Abraham saying, "By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord . . . That in blessing I will bless thee . . . And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice." (Gen. 22: 16,17,18)

Abraham was a polygamist and his wives were Sarah, Hagar and Keturah. (Gen: 16; 1-4 & 25; 1,2).

Jacob was blessed by God as well, "And God appeared unto Jacob again . . . And God said unto him . . . thy name shall not any more be called Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name . . . nations shall be of thee and kings shall come out of thy loins . . ." (Gen: 35; 10,11)

Jacob had twelve sons, fathers of the twelve tribes of Israel to be honored in the, " . . . holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God." (Rev: 21; 10,11,12)

Jacob was a polygamist and his wives were Leah and Rachel, who were sisters, and Bilhah and Zilpah. (Gen: Ch; 29 & 30)

"And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend." (Exodus: 33; 11)

According to the Bible, polygamy was practiced by the House of Israel under the leadership of Moses.

The Bible teaches that polygamist's were recognized and approved of God. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ speaks very highly of Abraham and his family.

He says, "Many shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of God" Luke 13:28,29. Again he said, "If ye were Abraham's seed, ye would do the works of Abraham."

Anon 4:15 PM, you speak of "God's standards" and state, "You will find that God did not bless any of them [polygamists] for this particular practice."

The aforementioned quotes are from the Bible and prove that God not only blessed these polygamists, but held them up as examples of rightiousness, "in the kingdom of God."

I must ask, "What Bible are you reading?

Anonymous said...

3:26am,

I did not say these men of God were not blessed by God, I said that God did not bless them "for that particular practice". The reason I bring this up is because I am seeing a lot of references made to these polygamous men throughout this weblog as a defense for the practice of polygamy. God blessed these men because of their faith in Him, not because of their polygamy.

Take Abraham. (I would like to thank you for listing all of those scripture references, in which you prove my point). They all speak of Abraham's faithfulness and obedience. I searched high and low to find a place in which God commanded (or even subtly suggested) that Abraham should take more wives, but couldn't find it! Don't you think that if God meant for polygamy to be a principal of our faith, He would have taken great care to tell us as much in His Word?

Let's look at Genesis 16:2-16 wherein we learn about Sarai, who was promised an heir, decided that she was too old to have children, and took it upon herself to bring her maidservant Hagar into the picture. (note that this was not God-directed) Abram took Hagar into his bed, but not as his wife. Now read Genesis 16:12 where we learn about God's plan for the child of their union, "He shall be a wild man; His hand shall be against every man, And every man's hand against him. And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." Not long after that, Abraham sends Hagar away (Genesis 21:9-12) and God reinforces His promise to Abraham that his seed would be called through Isaac (the child from his first wife, Sarah). Incidentally, God also made a nation of Ishmael, but it was not God's chosen nation (Genesis 17:21).

Let's skip on ahead to Keturah. It should be noted that she was taken as a wife after Sarah's death (Gen 24:67), disqualifying her from being considered a "plural wife".

God loved Abraham and had GRACE upon him. Abraham did not earn God's blessing through taking two wives at a time. Scripture never describes Abraham as a perfect man. It seems that as soon as he realized his mistake with Hagar, he got rid of her. There wasn't a whole lot of co-existing going on there. In fact, what little there was probably brought Abraham much grief!

Scripture records polygamy as something that took place, but you will never find God commanding anyone to do so.

Slavery is recorded too. Do you think God approved it or instructed His faithful to carry it out?

Anonymous said...

I would like to make a correction on my above post. Abram did marry Hagar (Genesis 16:3).

Anonymous said...

2:20 pm. You are correct he did.

Anonymous said...

I did call him a polygamist, didn't I?

Anonymous said...

To 11:52 AM:

You seem to be thorough with your scriptures. Thank you for the corrective addition(2:20 PM). It is relevant to note that after Sarah sent Hagar away through jealousy, the "angel of the Lord" sent Hagar back to Abraham: "And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress . . . I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude." (Gen. 16, v. 9 & 10)

Regardless of how you spin it though, God favored these polygamists' with the Everlasting Covenant and promises made to the House of Israel, through them.

In addition to Abraham being a polygamist as you noted, Jacob (Israel) had four wives at the same time, the mother's of the twelve tribes, through whom the covenants and promises of God were continued in the earth.

Regarding the polygamist twelve tribes, the Book of Revelations reveals, "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel." (Rev. Ch. 7, v. 4)

Verses 5,6,7, & 8 delineate that twelve thousand from each tribe will be sealed, "For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. (Rev. Ch. 7, v. 17)

It is interesting to note that not only the House of Israel are of a polygamist heritage, but Jesus himself was a decendent of Jacob through Judah, a patriarchal ancestor of mother Mary.

By the way, Mary was a child bride married to an older man. Her mother Anna, also was a child bride married to an older man. Why do you suppose God allowed that? Maybe it was because older virgins were scarce like today? Kind of like out there in monogamy land--especially after prom night.

I personally think the serious committment of marriage should be reserved for mature consenting adults and I don't think it's wise and proper for under age marriages to take place, either in polygamy or monogamy. But, I'm certainly not going to critisize God for favoring polygamists' with his covenants, promises and blessing's, and for providing a child bride for the mother of his perfect son.

Perhaps we should allow people to be led by their own conscience in religious matters. At the very least, they should be allowed equal protection under the law to associate and organize their family's after the order of Abraham, Jacob and Moses . . .

Laws regarding abuse, fraud, and other civil violations can be dealt with by proper due process if they occur. The Constitution and the Bible are both noble documents. The one, should protect the other that men might be free as the Founding Father's intended.

Anonymous said...

To 11:52 AM:

By the way, I'm sure you will agree that the "angel of the Lord" did represent God in sending Hagar back to Abraham. If polygamy was an offense to God, then God's angel would have directed otherwise . . .

Anonymous said...

You still fail to prove that GOD directed polygamy in the lives of these men. It is clear, and I have agreed, that these men were blessed by God.

Don't you think that if God wanted us to know that they were blessed BECAUSE they practiced polygamy, He would care enough for us to not only record in His Word His direction of such, but also state at some point that they were blessed specifically because of it? Again, I would ask you to show me the proof!

God created the entire earth by Himself, could He not also build up a nation out of a monogamous relationship? Yes!

He made the promise to Abram while he was married to Sarai alone.

God could have intervened and upheld the polygamous relationship between Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar as good and pleasing to Him, but He was silent and allowed the polygamous relationship to self- destruct. Yes, the angel of the Lord did tell Hagar to go back to Sarai, and I do agree that the angel was a messenger of the Lord. However, let's not miss the point. It is reinforced in scripture that the polygamous situation did not work, and Hagar and Ishmael were eventually sent away for good.

God was glorified in that only He could have enabled Sarah to conceive at such an old age. That was His plan all along! God had mercy on Hagar's suffering and chose to bless her son Ishmael, but Hagar and Ishmael were a diversion. Perhaps an example to all of us that when we do not wait on the Lord confusion and strife follow.

If you will reference Genesis 24 you will find that Isaac, the picture of obedience in the Old Testament, took but one wife.

Let's consider Adam and Eve. God gave Adam one wife! To this monogamous couple He gave the daunting task of populating the entire earth!

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his WIFE, and they will become ONE flesh". Genesis 2:24

"May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the WIFE of your youth." Proverbs 5:18

"But since there is so much immorality, each man should have HIS OWN WIFE and each woman should have HER OWN HUSBAND." I Cor 7:2

"However, each one of you also must love his WIFE as he loves himself, and the WIFE must respect her husband." Ephesians 5:33

"Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but ONE WIFE, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,..." I Timothy 3:2

These scriptures clearly show a marital relationship as being one-to-one. To state that Abraham and Jacob were blessed BECAUSE OF the polygamy they practiced is such a distortion of recorded scripture.

One thing is certain. God works dispite the failings of man. I noticed you did not bring up David or Soloman, polygamists both. God described David as a "man after his [God's] own heart" ISamuel 13:14. Yet we know that David was guilty of adultery and murder among other things. Are we to also uphold these things, that we may also be considered "after God's heart"? Let's not forget that David was also in the lineage of Christ as well as Rahab the harlot. Proof again that God does work in spite of man's frailty.

The child bride thing you were talking about is a diversion, but I will address it. Please show me the references in scripture that Mary was 15 year old? I have heard that claim before, but never seen it in God's written Word. Also, where did you dig up your information on Mary's mother? I don't see any of that in scripture, so perhaps you can enlighten me on that too. Please remember that I am sticking to scripture alone.

I am curious about your Revelation references. Who do you believe will be the "Lamb...in the midst of the throne"?

I am also curious about your earlier assertion that polygamy was practiced in the house of Israel under the leadership of Moses. Where is this found??

God's Word is so powerful and pure. There really is no need to try to take out of it what isn't there.

Anonymous said...

Response to 12:46 PM Poster:

The references to Biblical Polygamy are so extensive that I will refer you to the following link and you can study them at your leisure:

(http://www.biblicalpolygamy.com/)

Abraham and Jacob (Israel), the father's of the House of Israel, were examples to their posterity of the Patriarchal Order of Marriage, which was more or less the norm for the first four thousand years of earth's history. It was the Roman Empire that created the state regulated civil marriage of monogamy only that prevails today, but Isaiah prophesied of a time to come when the Patriarchal Order of Marriage would be had in remembrance again:

"And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, we will eat our own bread and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

In that day shall the branch of the Lord be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel." (Isa. Ch. 4, v. 1&2)

In regard to the age of Mary (something that is really not important to this discussion but is interesting still the same), I refer you to the ancient Apocryphal text, "The Gospel of the Birth of Mary."

Chapter's 1 & 2 refer to Mary's parents, Joachim and Anna and the remarkable events that surrounded Mary's conception and birth. But the reference to her age comes from Chapter 5, v. 3 & 4:

"So that when at length she arrived to her fourteenth year, as the wicked could not lay anything to her charge worthy of reproof, so all good persons, who were acquainted with her, admired her life and conversation.

At that time the high-priest made a public order. That all the virgins who had public settlements in the temple, and were come to this age, should return home, and, as they were now of a proper maturity, should, according to the custom of their country, endeavor to be married."

Now, I realize that the Apocryphal texts were rejected by the Nicean Council of Bishops when the present Bible was canonized by them. Still, I find the ancient texts of historical value in providing additional information of that time and culture. The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Codex's are also of significant value to the serious religious scholar.

Be that as it may, I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone in regard to their particular interpretation of ancient records, including the Bible. I only attempt to postulate the reason's why some groups (FLDS, Sectarians and others) have chosen a particular version of that religious history.

I have enjoyed exploring your version and viewpoint and appreciate very much the freedom to express another perspective. That's what the Constitution is all about, "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

May the Lord bless you in your pursuit of truth . . .

Anonymous said...

Dear 12:39 anon,

I checked the link you provided and was appalled at how scripture was taken out of context and distorted beyond recognition. How Clintonesque! Does anyone know what the meaning of “is” is?

I was frustrated and saddened to see through that link how your theology is dependent upon taking scripture out of context, assumptions, translating to suit your purposes, and extra-Biblical text.

Our personal family situations can at times blind us from accepting God’s best. Should a polygamist send away everyone but his original wife and children?

The main issue is that salvation is totally dependant upon what God does and not what man does. Do I think you're unsaved because you're a polygamist? No. The bigger issue is your relationship with God. I believe:

GOD LOVES US AND SENT HIS ONLY SON JESUS:
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” John 3:16

WE ALL HAVE SINNED:
“for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” Romans 3:23

THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH:
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 6:23

CHRIST DIED FOR US:
“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8

WE NEED CHRIST:
“that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” Romans 10:9

WE MUST CALL ON HIS NAME:
“For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:13

Anonymous said...

Do you folks believe Jesus Christ was married and if so,how many wifes did he have?

Anonymous said...

To 6:27 PM:

I will answer your question indirectly and then let you make your own conclusion.

First, I'm sure that we can all agree that Jesus was a Jew and was raised in the Jewish culture, teachings and tradition. He often quoted the Tora and expressed his view and interpretation (midrash) of the jewish scriptures.

According to orthodox jewry and certainly at the time of the advent of Jesus, a man had to be married to be a Rabbi. In fact a man had to be married to even teach in the synagogue. Jesus was referred to as Rabbi and he taught in the synagogue.

Married men were distinguished from unmarried men by their beards and Jesus wore a beard.

Men didn't have intimate contact with women outside of their marriage vows. Allowing a woman to wash a man's feet, dry them with her hair (a very personal part of a woman's body) and kiss him intimately would be considered totaly unacceptable outside of a marriage vow.

There are scriptural references that allude to marriage and family. The marriage feast at Cana involves Jesus in a way that a mere guest would not be involved, providing for the wine for example:

"And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, they have no wine. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? Mine hour is not yet come." (John Ch. 2 v. 3&4 )

First of all, why was Jesus's mother even there and concerned with matters that would otherwise not be her business to do so? And why did she involve him in a responsible way to share the hosting? And could it be that the appointed time of the marriage had not yet arrived, "Mine hour is not yet come."

Why did the father-in-law (governor of the feast) thank him for producing the best wine last?

". . .the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now." (John Ch. 2 v.9&10)

Then the reference in Isaiah:

"Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand." (Isa. Ch. 53 v. 10)

Could it be that his days were prolonged by his children (seed) that he saw while he was bruised and hung on a cross as an offering for sin?

"And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:" (Matt. Ch. 27 v. 55)

Why was Mary Magdalene at the tomb and why was she (a woman) the first to see him even before he had ascended, for he said, "Woman, why weepest thou . . . Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father . . ." (John Ch. 20 v. 15-17) Why did Mary have such a need to physically touch her beloved?

Anonymous said...

To 12:12 AM:

These scriptures troubled me too. I could never accept why the Catholic Church praised marriage (and children) as a holy estate and then at the same time promoted celibacy. I think the Nicean council of bishops did a little interpolation with their selective redaction of the ancient texts.

Texts more favorable to their particular political view (circa 325 AD) were canonized and texts adverse to their view were rejected (the apocrypha and pseudepigrapha). I also believe, because of the inconsistencies of the texts they did canonize, some references to dogma that they probably wished to have suppressed slipped by their editing process.

Therefore, these well intentioned (?) but politically motivated mortals, created the perception of a celibate Christ with no offspring (seed), in a Jewish society where being barren was a curse and having children from the Lord was highly desired.

Jesus said he came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. Why would he set an example of celibacy when the whole essence and tradition of the law was to promote life and the joyous experience of family?

As the great example of truth, social enlightenment and righteous fulfillment, Jesus did set the example of complete family life and was often with women and children, for he said, "Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God."

Today, we see the true result of celibacy and its offspring, pedophilia--in a church where its celibate clergy are notoriously practicing their celibate craft. It should be obvious to all--for of such is not the kingdom of God.

Anonymous said...

12:12 AM to 6:27 PM:

By the way, I'm not with "you folks" whoever they are . . .

Anonymous said...

The folks would be flds.12:12 am.Thanx,for your insight.I to have wondered about those scriptures.I've also wondered about the sisters Mary and Martha(whos brother was lazurus), as well as Mary magdelene and other woman that followed him about the land.