Wednesday, March 16, 2005

Uncle Fred dies in Colorado

The Eldorado Success is reporting that Uncle Fred Jessop died. See story for more info:
www.myeldorado.net

82 comments:

Anonymous said...

Uncle Freds Passing is a monumental event in the FLDS community. Conspiracy theory was that Fred was being held against his will at the YFZ ranch in Texas or was buried on the ranch in an unmarked grave. Guess this conspiracy along with so many others have been disproved as it has been confirmed that Uncle Fred died peacefully surrounded by family and loved ones in a medical facility in Colorado.

Anonymous said...

I have a couple of questions for the 5:05 PM poster, or anyone else that can answer them. If Fred spent most of his entire life living in and building up Colorado City, the city he loved, nurtured and watched grow, why did he choose to die in Lone Tree, Colorado? That is a place he’d never heard of or lived near until he was about 93 years old. Rather than living with his loved ones, in his own home, for the last couple of years he’s lived apart from his family. His enormous family had to be transported from his hometown in Arizona to Colorado so they could be there with him only at the very end of his life and he was too far gone to teach or even tell them much about “Nellie.”

If Fred truly believed Zion was being built in Texas, with its new temple, why is he being buried in the Colorado City Cemetery? Why not the new YFZ Cemetery near the temple site?

These things make no sense to me unless it ties in with Warren Jeffs removing Fred as the long time FLDS Bishop. Warren also removed him as a trustee off of the UEP. Fred then lost his status as Warren’s second counselor and has been replaced. This must have been extremely humiliating and stressful to Fred. It makes me wonder what Fred did to Warren to deserve being handled in this way.

Anonymous said...

Mind your business OK People are in mourning for their loved one.

Anonymous said...

People have been mourning Uncle Fred for a long time now. For well over a year. He was the glue that held so many together. His last reported confidential remarks to some very close friends the very day that he was whisked away in the night were, "we need to be doing what we should have done in the first place". He was the legal successor to Uncle Rulon by right of senior ordination. I am sure that it was heartbreaking to him to see his beloved children have their families broken to pieces. The Barlow boys were as dear to him as life itself. He dealt with
thousands in a tender and fatherly
way. He was a slave to Warren, shackled by Warren's favorite keep sweet drug, Prozac. Like Uncle Rulon, Warren kept him on it so that he could stand the family slaughter that was practiced. They had to feed it to him or he would have died of a broken heart a long time ago. Colorado was no resort for him, it was another prison and an horrible insult to the life of a great man. As a friend and confident, he expressed sorrow, frustration, and horror at being asked to take the families of some of his dear friends. His remark to me was, "this will be different than this someday, you wait and see." He is now where he can give a faithful report on one of the blackest and ugliest times in history that the people who dare call themselves fundamentalists have ever gone through.

Paladin for Truth said...

It is truly, truly sad that most of the family and friends of Uncle Fred were not able to see him and visit with his great character during the final year of his life. He grew up around a great many people. He lived for those people. He spent his whole life around them and blessed them. It is sad the he died in somewhere in Colorado away from most of those that he loved.

He was more honest, noble and forgiving than most men that have lived in this century or the last.
He did not have giant walls around his house and his door was always unlocked. Many could go in and find him in his living room, ready and full of care to hear what you had to say. All were welcome at his dinner table and his meals were simple and the company grand.

Uncle Fred had a look in his eyes and feel in his hand that showed care and interest for the person talking to him. This is a character that Warren Jeffs can never, never obtain.

I am glad that he has moved to a better place, around many true friends that he has not seen for a while. I know that he will deliver a true report to those that he will see. I pray that the report that the wonderful and true "Uncle Fred" gives to our Lord and Saviour will perhaps bring the Lord to show forth his arm and stop the ugly and evil servant of Lucifer, "Warren Steed Jeffs".
He has caused more destruction than I have seen in most nations.

Uncle Fred was a great Bishop and minister in our time and though he was never called an Apostle, he sure did know how to act like one.

I am glad that we have Uncle Fred Jessop to deliver a favorable, true and honest report. God bless Uncle Fred and God bless his family that remains here. May his family remember his life always and never let his example and life slip away from their memories and all those they come in contact with.

Goodbye, our dear and loving Uncle Fred

Anonymous said...

Fred didn't "die peacefully surrounded by family and loved ones," as 5:05 claims. He was stolen away from Short Creek 15 months ago, and isolated from his family and loved ones in Colorado, under guard, in a virtual prison, on the orders of Warren Jeffs, who viewed Fred as a dangerous rival.

On March 9th Fred was abandoned to die in an impersonal hospital in a southern suburb of Denver, where he spent the last 6 days of his life more isolated than ever, far from anybody who loved him, surrounded by strangers. He died at 2 PM yesterday, the latest victim of this madman who has hijacked the Work and betrayed the trust of thousands of loyal believers.

This was a tragic event. Hopefully it will open up some eyes before an even greater tragedy occurs in Texas. It's time to recognize the fact that Warren Jeffs is a false prophet.

Anonymous said...

To anonymous 7:50:

Many people should have been in mourning for Uncle Fred since he was kidnapped and compelled to leave the only home he has ever loved.

Those who are in mourning now are a few years too late. The neutralization of Fred Jessop was Warren's last priority in order to have total carte blanch control of a totally mindless people.

Isn't it amazing how those who loved and respected Fred Jessop, so easily let him go like a sacrificial lamb, to suffer a house arrest slow death, from depression and loneliness.

Now, they'll undoubtedly come out of the woodwork to praise his life's memory and accomplishments, but where were they when he was commandeered away to die, apart from the home and people he loved.

And the greatest hypocrit of all, Warren Steed Jeffs, will undoubtedly be to cowardly to even attend the funeral of the man that made him prophet, and profiteer.

Now, Warren can continue singing his favorite song--We Thank Thee Oh God For A Profit . . .

Anonymous said...

http://www.skyridgemedcenter.com/

Just a guess to the "Why Lone Tree?" question.

Anonymous said...

I was at Uncle Rulon's funeral when Winston Blackmore and the Canadians came in. After going through the line up they were going to sit down when Uncle Fred sent a couple of us down to tell Winston to come talk to him. He did and Uncle Fred said to him, "no hard feelings between us". Winston said back, "there are no hard feelings with me". A few days later we heard that Winston made this prediction something like this. They will do to Uncle Fred what they have done to me. They will try and get his family to leave him, they will remove him as a trustee of the UEP, they will replace him as bishop. He will die lonely and in exile, and it will be hardly a year before it starts to happen. Now that is a good guess winston.

ezd said...

It is true that Uncle Fred had seniority over Warren, however Uncle Fred knew that the responsibility of this Order of the Priesthood was not his. The day after Rulon Jeffs passing the people looked to Uncle Fred for leadership. He said to those of us in that meeting (about 2000 people), "I look to Warren for guidance in these uncertain times." (Why not look to God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, as a prophet would?) Warren responded, "Uncle Fred is the better man." (Well that's obvious!) Years ago I had a visit with Rulon Jeffs asking about the nature of Warrens responsibilites in the High Priesthood. He made it clear that the leadership of this work had already been called and set apart and that he must leave this life the same as all men. He made it clear that Warren was just an Elder. Warren continued preaching about Uncle Rulon's renewal (death was the result) and desired to see Uncle Fred renewed (dead?) aswell. Warren also taught us that Uncle Rulon was the last remaining Apostle and looking beyond Rulon Jeffs was sin, and more strange and bizzare doctrine (and "prophecies") flowed continuously from the pulpit he occupied. Yet he made plans, marriages, and excommunications without a church trial part of his daily routine without Rulons knowledge or consent. The nature of the keys of this Order of the Priesthood have always been, and will always be, to bless those who embrace the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Where you see destruction there the keys are not. I know truly what Warren is not simply because the fruit is on the tree, (if a dead tree can produce fruit).
I called a family member in Colorado City to find out who I would need to talk with to see if Uncle Fred's funeral was going to be an open funeral or if those who serve the Lord are going to be held out at the door. My relative gasped, "Well this is the first I have heard about it, honest...we are just kept in the dark and told nothing." I don't know if these people realize it but they have been abandoned by their god (Warren). This may be the hand of the Lord in preserving more families and keeping the holy covenant of marriage just that -holy!

Anonymous said...

It does not take much prophecy ability to predict what Winston predicted with Uncle Fred being stripped of all and sent away. Once a person serves the evil one, like Warren has done, the only outcome is loss, destruction, and the opposite of all a good saint has known and grown up with in his life.

Anonymous said...

Was Anyone with him when he died?

Anonymous said...

Was Anyone with him when he died?
I would like to hear from someone who was with him.

Anonymous said...

In reference to the 7:24 post: Good questions. I’m out of this loop and don’t know or understand who “Nellie” is or how she is relevant to Uncle Fred. Could someone enlighten me as to who or what “Nellie” is and what does she know that I don’t know? I get the feeling this reference to “Nellie” goes way back before my time. Maybe someone well versed in FLDS history knows the answer. Perhaps WKB could shed some light on this?

Anonymous said...

I don’t know much about “Nellie” but I do have something to say as to EZD’s post about the people in Colorado City being “kept in the dark” about what is really going on, it’s been my experience that his relative’s answer is not a unique circumstance for those people caught in Warren’s snare. They are told not to talk to each other nor are they to read or listen to the news. Most of them have no idea of the crimes Warren is being charged…. and they won’t listen. They only believe he is being persecuted like Christ was. Nor do they know much about the “temple” being built, only that it takes more and more money, and to be “worthy” of going to Texas, they must supply it. This is not what Christ died for. Perhaps the implications referred to in the above posts about Uncle Fred’s death will wake a few more to the knowledge that giving anyone the power to deny them the right to weigh both sides of an issue then choose for them selves, is an ultimate act of murder of body, mind and spirit.

Anonymous said...

When Uncle Fred said what He did about "Nellie" it was in reference to Him knowing more than any one about what has happemed in short creek because he has been there so long. He said "no one knows more about Nellie than Me" That is one of the reasons why Warren had to get rid of Uncle Fred. As soon as He decided things were going awry Warren exiled him to Colorado. Who out there that has ever talked to uncle Fred has not heard him say "this is home" refering to Colorado City. He loved the place and He loved the people. The last thing He wanted was to take the wives of His dear friends. I'm sure there will be an attempt to make Uncle Fred look like He supported Waren this last year but He and warren are as diffent as night and day. We who know Uncle Fred know better. I can hardly wait for two hours of warren worshipping at the funeral. Lets keep count of how many times Uncle Fred's name is mentioned conpared to Warrens name. I highly doubt the coward will show up. He has lots of skirts to hide behind

Anonymous said...

I have a few questions for the 7:24 PM poster. If you are so concerned about Uncle Fred then why do you DISRESPECTFULLY call him Fred. He is a man worthy of the highest respect. And who is "Nellie".

Anonymous said...

to the 9:23PM. You're lie doesn't pack the same truth as statements from the hospital and sheriffs Department.

Anonymous said...

To the 9:33 PM poster: PROVE IT!

Anonymous said...

There's no point proving anything when all proof is based on speculation anyway.

Anonymous said...

To ezd 6:25 post:

Your observation regarding Rulon Jeff's position on not ordaining any Apostles is correct. We know that Warren's only ordination was that of an Elder, now it is reported that he claims to be an Apostle. At least he knows that's what's required to administer gospel ordinances. I wonder who he raised from the dead to ordain him?

Obviously the FLDS church is without Priesthood leadership and authority. Any church claiming to represent the authority and teachings of Jesus Christ would demonstrate those teachings in reality and fact. The only thing Warren has demonstrated is the destruction of family's, excommunication of stalwarts, and serial adultry's as a result of his madman appointments. Strangely enough, the marriages sealed by Brother Johnson were never sacred to Warren, or any other appointments Brother Johnson may have made.

What amazes me is how the older and more historically informed FLDS membership have so easily forgotten the testimony of Apostle Richard S. Jessop on priesthood authority and proper succession.

Now, the blind are leading the blind for sure . . .

Anonymous said...

To 12:13 PM: You do not know. You do know that he didn't ordain you.

Anonymous said...

I do know someone that Uncle Rulon ordained an Apostle and it wasn't Warren. Uncle Fred was even present. So was Warren. That was the FLDS first Presidency. After it was done, Warren decided that father didn't intend on doing that. Now, Now, who was directing who? Maybe Uncle Rulon forgot to counsel with his counselors.

Anonymous said...

There was a story going around in Colorado City, that Warren was promoted to president of the church, FLDS church that is, by Rulon Jeffs around August of 2001. Wendell Nielsen and Leroy Jeffs were supposed to be present for this as well. There was also something said in a meeting around that time about Warren accepting his new calling. President of the church is a far cry from the position of the Prophet as the people believed Rulon Jeffs and Leroy Johnson were. If this story is true, Warren is no more than presiding bishop of the FLDS. He was given authority by his father to hold meetings and collect tithing and that is the sum of his supposed authority. Warren is the second president of the FLDS, that is all.

Anonymous said...

lol, Uncle Fred often used analagies, since I have heard of no "Nellie" I would guess that he was just talking of himself the same as one might say "no one but us chickens" or "just me and my worms"
The only thing I ever heard of Warren being ordained to before Rulon died was First Counseler, a position the Warren himself spoke of many times of as being disolved when the president dies and in no way does that position take over the presidency. Funny how we never heard that little speach again after Warren was in that position.

Anonymous said...

Answers to the 11:48 post:

Sorry you are so offended about me not calling Fred “Uncle Fred”. I meant no disrespect and I’m sure “he is a man worthy of the highest respect,” as you say.

But he is not my uncle.

I have a friend in Jeff’s religion that was speaking with me about the death of their “Uncle Fred”. They talked like they had some real questions about Warren’s leadership and the way this supposed transfer of leadership occurred. They also talked about the bizarre way their life is changing for the worse.

Because we are friends, I try to keep them informed of what is happening out here in the real world. I informed them of the 5:05 pm post (about his family being near him when he died). We had quite a discussion. After we were through talking, I posted a couple questions to the 5:05 poster, or anyone, hoping someone would have the answers as I’m really interested in this story.

As to your question, who is “Nellie”? I’m not positive, but the way the term was used in the conversation, I assumed it was referring to behind the scenes FLDS Church knowledge and history about other FLDS power transfers, etc.

Anonymous said...

It seems that all throughout history, to gain control of people’s minds, those trying to gain power must first control the people’s access to knowledge and keep them ignorant. Warren is a master at this. And he is a master at deceiving those poor people into believing they have the only direction to God in their lives.

Anonymous said...

to the 4:19 post, Amen

Anonymous said...

Here's an idea about the 4:33 pm question about Uncle Fred & "Nellie" In the days of the Wooley's, reference was frequently made to John W. Talor's wife Nellie & some knoweledge she had about priesthood succession. It appears a little research is in order.

Anonymous said...

We have the same access to knowledge that anyone else has otherwise we would not be communicating with you on the internet. It seems obvious that we are not the ones who are ignorant. The people who think we are ignorant are the ones who are really ignorant otherwise you would not base your "Facts" on what someone else says. If you knew any of these people you would not be able to call them ignorant. So obviously you don't know what you are talking about.

Anonymous said...

To the6:58 pm post If you have different facts than what has been posted,enlighten us. I want to have both sides of any story.

Anonymous said...

Reply to the 11:15pm post. You are absolutely right.I can't remember warren ever preaching that the first presidency was dissolved at the prophets death,after he'd convinced his father to put him in that position .I remember him alway's preaching that the first presidency would dissolve if the prophet died while Uncle Parley Harker was in the first counselor position with Uncle Fred in the second councelor position. Do you have any other tidbits of information like that you remember?

Anonymous said...

I remember in one FLDS church meeting long ago, Rulon Jeffs got up (with help of coarse) to leave the stand when he wasn't feeling well, walked to the pulpit and said, "If anything ever happens to me, Uncle Parley is the man to foolow." after Parley Harker passed away, Warren was ordained to the position he was in. I guess this made Warren think that he also took on that calling that his father gave to Parley Harker!

Anonymous said...

To Poster 6:58 p.m.
You know that's a bunch of crap. Everything in that place is monitored. All the mail that goes through the post office is looked through by Jim Allred, one of Warren's "favorites", how do I know this? Jim came to the door of my fathers house one time and handed him a letter that a girl I knew there had written me, and told me personally that Warren told him to sort through the mail like that. And also we were told to do away with television, newspapers, music of any kind performed by anyone "outside" the religion, and internet was closely monitored. Ask yourself this question, if you were truly one of Warren's faithful followers, and believed everything he said, and wouldn't do anything to piss him off, why are you on a site like this one? For I know that he would disapprove because it can "plant doubt in your mind that his teachings are false". So turn off your computer and go listen to Warren's tapes that he had made so you can be hyptmotized by his "hitler" doctrine. I honestly can't wait until another 5 or 6 of his "doomsday" prophesies fall to the ground unheaded, and all the people there that still have some brain cells that are uncontrolled by Warren will see how phony he is and go about there lives how they want to live personally. And if that is to live the same religion the Prophets of FLDS religion before him taught, great. That is your privilige as a Citizen of the United States. Just don't break any more laws and if you have two wives, support them yourself and all their children, don't try to cheat our depleted social security system anymore.

Anonymous said...

To 3:04 poster. I have a question for you. If you had the opportunity to walk the talk would you do it? If what you said about Jim Allred intercepting a letter to you is true then that is a Federal Crime. His job in the post office is to sort mail only. It is a very serious matter. If this is true then I challenge you to do the right thing and contact the Attorney General and or the Post Master General and sign an affidavit. Uncle Fred used to say that all the Devil needs is for a few good men to stand up and do nothing. What do you stand for?

Anonymous said...

Regarding the 4:12 AM Post:

This is an interesting theme of which I have some knowlege. Jim Allred is not the first federal employee who has violated the position of trust at the Post Office.

When Fred Jessop's wife Maryette Carling was running the Post Office, Fred was routinely seen in the back where the mail was sorted. As a UEP Trustee, he negotiated the lease on the building with the Government and received the income personally. During his deposition in the law suit he stated that Uncle Roy said he could have the lease income for his personal subsistance.

Maryette was deposed also because of a witness who saw her give other peoples mail to Fred in his home for his inspection. This witness said that Fred would steam the letters open and read them and then reseal them and return them to the Postmaster (his wife). Her attorney had her invoke the Fifth Amendment during questioning and she wouldn't answer any questions about the Post Office.

She was in poor health and was never prosecuted. She died a short time later and Fred lost his lease and the new Post Office was built. The Government insisted on hiring a Postmaster from outside the community which restored some credibility to the privacy and sanctity of the mail syatem. Unfortunately, men like James Allred have continued the old tradition of violating their position of trust.

Now that Warren Jeffs is leaving the community (hopefully) and the UEP Trust is in the process of being reorganized, perhaps the citizens of the twin city's will migrate back to America and respect its institutions and laws.


In all fairness, most of the people are honest hard working citizens, and with the corrupt leadership gone will no doubt continue their lives in a better condition than before.

Anonymous said...

To 9:18 PM. The Facts: The post office is still under a lease. That building was built by donated efforts from faithful members of the FLDS. The building and property are owned by the UEP Trust. These incidents you talk about are not true as much as the lease is not true. Ask the postal service. They will tell you. No mail was ever opened by any of these people except mail addressed to them. You may weave your little lies but all it will get you is a bitter taste.

Anonymous said...

To shed more light on the postal service question, The lease ended and the postal service wanted a new lease on the same building. That building was inadequate for the growing community. The postal service was given a building with 3 to 4 times more space for the same price, renewing the same lease at the same price.

Anonymous said...

To 3:04 AM. I will defend the TRUTH wherever I can. I will speak out against EVIL, LIES, AND HYPOCRITES.
If you wish to speak of lies, I will speak the TRUTH. Obviously you are an Ex Member and have heard lies that you believe. I have found that before I believe something, I make sure it is true. If what you say is true and you have perfect evidence that it is true, I know you wouldn't waste five minutes reporting it to the proper authorities. Your bitterness proves this. You can not win with lies. Many statements have been made; but as the Attorney Generals of Utah And Arizona have found, There is no evidence or proof. "Bring us the proof", they said.

Sincerily,

Faithful

Anonymous said...

Hey, Faithful,

Why on earth would an "ex-member" be so bitter?

Just wondering what your thought might be.

ezd said...

Dear Faithful, I want to look at that word with you and our readers for just a moment. "Faithful" -- to be full of faith. If you are faithful to Warren S. Jeffs your presence here on this website and use of the internet is strictly forbidden by that Fanatical Latter Day Saint profit. Its influence in a home dedicated unto your god (WSJ) is a desecration of that home and your Priesthood is now lost. Now repent! Write your letter of confession, turn your wives and children over to the master (deceiver), and go repent from afar. But, there is hope. If you are good and turn over lots of money to the church to help offset the cost to your wives new husband, raising your children as his own, you will have the opportunity to have your blood spilt in the atonement chamber of the new temple to pay for your crime, you son of perdition. Now I hope I haven't hit you over the head with a hammer, my intent is only to stir you and some others of Warrens sheeple to think, and hopefully to take action. Good men, and I mean really good men have lost all their lifes work for less than using the internet. Think about it. Warren will slander and discredit any he identifies as a threat to his agenda. His actions speak volumes to this. If you were awake the last year of President Rulon Jeffs post-stroke administration, who was the first person Warren tried to smear? The first person he recognized as his fathers legitimate successor. Warren's no dummy! Even he knew who the responsibility of this work would rest upon and he didn't like it because it wasn't him. He liked sitting in that big chair in his fathers office. Think about it. At Uncle Freds funeral there were plenty of special guests who are not FLDS members, I talked with many of them; but the guards at the door would ask if you attend meetings under the direction of this other man Warren fears. If so then you could not attend the funeral. This is no gossip, I know because I witnessed it first hand, no second hand gossip here my friend. Read between the lines. Think more about the reason Warren says what he does, and listen less to the words he uses. Warren has already shown that his sealings can't survive the tests of time let alone eternity. Teach your wives to love you, be someone your wives actually want to be with forever, and may God bless you with the wisdom, knowledge, and understanding that Uncle Roy prayed for all of us to have. Remember, these gifts will not fall from the sky to land in plain view before you. SEEK, and if you do, YOU WILL FIND. May God bless you.

Anonymous said...

To 3:04 poster, I agree with the 4:12 am poster. You have an opportunity to stand for truth. We can find out & post phone numbers & addresses to help you but in the end its you that has first hand knowledge that a crime occurred. Maybe the Lord is waiting for a few honest men to come forward & turn this whole fiasco around "180 degrees" & get back on the track towards God again.

Anonymous said...

To faithful at 12:35 pm. If the State Attorney Generals have no proof of crimes, then why is your "Profit", Warren Jeffs running like theres no tomorrow. If he didn't sodomize those little boys, why doesn't he come out in the open like a normal man and defend himself.Only the guilty fleeth when no man pursueth.

Anonymous said...

To EZD.

I know you personally. I also know that you left of your own accord. No one asked you to. I thought better of you at one time, but now I know better. There is nothing I could say to you that would do any good. I hope you take the advice of someone you once accepted as a friend. You would be greater blessed financially, spiritually and other wise if you would live the best life you know how and let go of the hatred that is cankering your soul. I will defend the truth wherever I can. I would also state that the reason for bitterness is because of guilt. And when the guilty are found out and corrected by being asked to leave they will either repent or become bitter. If they repent, they can be reinstated into that society, but if they don't then they cannot. I hope the best for you EZD and hope you will consider what I have said. I would also state that trying to speak out about the truth strengthens my testimony. And I know that Jesus Said " Blessed are ye when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake. Rejoice and be exceeding glad for great is your reward in Heaven. For so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."

Sincerily,

Faithful

Anonymous said...

To Ezd's 9:25 post. I like your term for warrens group,"Fanatical Latterday Saints" It is a very accurate description of him & his followers.I would say another split is occurring in the flds church as it has throughout its turbulent history. I concur with what you said happened at Uncle Fred's funeral. People that admitted to attending Uncle Winston's Church were singled out and not allowed to go to the funeral, though they were allowed to pay their respects to the family and view the body with guards attending them.I only know of one exception to this rule .

Anonymous said...

For your info. The courts will do what they want to and so far they have been prejudice toward the FLDS. He did answer the courts in a letter denying these allegations. Two others who were accused also denied these alegations. These boys said this happened when they were 5 yrs old. Why did they wait 20 yrs until their father was bitter to say anything? They do have an ulterior motive, Their father is bitter toward these men and would stop at nothing to hurt them. What will the court do when you have three witnesses against two and over 10000 people who know personally the character of these three men. I hope they will accept the truth, And not some fabricated lie by two men. In considering the case in Florida where a court can order the cruel execution of an innocent woman (Terri Schiavo), All you can do is hope for justice where there is none.

Anonymous said...

To 10:28

I am not edz nor do I know this person, I'm just a fly on the wall, "Faithful", but it's kind of ironic that you misspelled the word, "sincerely".

Also, it doesn't appear that edz is persecuting anyone where it pertains to Christ. He is expressing criticism of Warren Jeffs - there's a difference...don't you think? Way to take that verse out of context. By "Faithful", do you mean faithful to Warren? If so, I will pray that you are released from the grip of fear I sense in every one of your posts.

I think it's really sad.

Anonymous said...

I'm sure Uncle Fred didn't want you at his funeral. No need to respond because you know.

Anonymous said...

To 11:06.

If I were afraid of something then I would not be looking at this web site let alone responding to anything!!!! I have also found that by responding truthfully I get more accusations and greater lies from those who know what I say is true. I am not talking about you because you say you don't know. EZD knows.

Sincerely,

Faithful

Anonymous said...

Reply to faithfuls 10:28 pm post. You seem to be sincere and i commend you for trying to defend whom you believe to be your prophet and God.I admonish you to reconsider your presence on the internet as there is way to much information available for weak minds to absorb. There is a reason we have been told to stay off of the internet.It can eventually erode even the strongest testimonies we have of our prophet.I thought i could read all the information about what's said about my religion/prophet and remain unaffected.Truth has a way of comeing out into the light. I was wrong about being affected and have lost my testimony. I implore you to bury your head back in the sand.To continue down this path you are on will eventually result in your wakeing up.Believe me, ignorance was truly bliss.If you do wake up and become tormented by the truth and are forced to act,you can't say you were not warned. I will tell you though, that after you make your way through the torment, their comes an incredible feeling of inner peace as you grasp true knowledge.God be with you on your journey. A friend.

Anonymous said...

Response to the 11:pm post. I had heard the rumour that warren had denied the sodomy allegations in a letter to the court so i made inquiry and found it was just a rumour.He apparently has yet to publically deny the accusations.If you have certain knowledge of warrens denial of the sodomy charge,could you guide me in the direction i need to look to find it. Please don't tell me i should listen to the emotion of the feeling of peace within my heart that he didn't do it.I'm so beyond that and need something a little more concrete to go by.Thank you, I almost signed my name, it must be getting late.

Anonymous said...

poor poor Faithful, you have no idea what your putting yourself through. I think you feel that your testimony of Warren is getting weak deep down inside, so you need to argue with all you can to try and strengthen it. What a pity. But who knows maybe when that old hand of reality comes along and smacks you up the backside of the head, and shakes all that dust loose that has been settling in you mind from all of Warren's special remedy of brainwash speech, you will be looking at your own words and laughing that you were once so ignorant and mind-controlled that you actually typed these paragraphs.

Anonymous said...

This is an interesting blog! In answer to the "Who is Nellie?" question. Maybe I can help with a little information about “Nellie”. I heard that Nellie Taylor was one of Apostle John W. Taylor’s (son of President John Taylor) six plural wives and was on the underground with him at certain times. Unlike certain people today, Nellie stayed with her husband after he was excommunicated from the Mormon Church for living Plural Marriage after the Manifesto of 1890 was signed by Wilford Woodruff. This effectively halted the lifestyle above ground and drove living plural marriage deep underground. Nellie was privy to the inner workings of the Woolley group and was well aware of maneuverings that went on in the beginning development of the FLDS Church when it first started.

I understand that the Woolleys and other contemporaries would sometimes use the term “Nellie” when referring to the organization of the underground plural marriage movement in and out of the Mormon Church.

When Uncle Fred said, “I know more about Nellie than anyone living in the church today.” I sure he was referring to the knowledge he gained over the course of his lifetime of “what really happened behind closed doors,” and why certain things came about the way they did. Uncle Fred was witness to hundreds of private meetings with FLDS leaders. He, like “Nellie” knew what was going on for real. I hope this helps.

Anonymous said...

Ole faithful, we rode the range together
Ole faithful, in any kind of weather
When the round up days are over
You'll be welcome to come over
Ole faithful, pal of mine.

Just Me said...

To Faithful: By following each of your posts on this site, I now know who you are. As a long time friend, I ask you to step back and look at the whole picture. Truth is truth. Let the chips fall where they may.

I can’t tell you how glad I am to see you at least getting on the internet. If you have some deep questions you would like to discuss lets do it on this thread but please be careful about covering your internet footprints. If I figured out who you are, then others can, too. It would sicken me if you lost your wife and children because you were caught on the internet. Your secret is safe with me.

Anonymous said...

To 10:08 pm, Why the quotes around 180 degrees,i don't get it?

Anonymous said...

To just me: perhaps I'm a phantom or just some ghost that haunts your blog. I like to think that Faithful represents every faithful honest member of the FLDS. As to who I am it matters not.

Sincerely,

Faithful

Anonymous said...

NICE TRY.

Anonymous said...

To faithful 7:05 pm. Good, your hideing your tracks better.If I believed in Phantoms,Ghosts,and haunted blogs I would probably also believe Uncle Warren would have revealed to him who you were and I wouldn't expect to talk to you again until after you were kicked out. Shall we go deeper? Just me.

Anonymous said...

As to the talk of the Priesthood and authority being in Colorado City, Warren, or even Rulon Jeffs. As a personal relative to Uncle Fred you may look to the "apostacy" back in the 1950's to see perhaps where the "keys" really are. Just my two cents.

Anonymous said...

To 10:43 pm It's good to hear from one of my relates from U.A.B. Keep giveing your two cents worth,it could get mentally stimulateing here, or mighty hot. Your first shot went right over my bow and drenched me.My turn.Are you positive J.W.M.even had any authority to give to Dr. Allred?

Anonymous said...

Answer to the 5:17 post. Remember in meeting when Uncle Fred said something like,in case you haven't noticed,this work has turned around 180 degrees.The fruit we are harvesting from the 180 degree turn in direction is rotten.

Anonymous said...

To "just me"
I'm afraid you have a case of false identity. "Faithful" has already lost his family and consequently has time to monitor these idiotic argumentative posts. But I do think you hit one thing on the head: It does appear that the gentleman doth protest too much and he is actually trying to convince himself of the rightness of all the senseless crap that is going on. Let him keep posting. Sooner or later (maybe after he's dead) he will see the light. And do you know what? Contrary to what we've been taught recently, God DOES forgive and bless and love; so death should hold no fear for our good friend "Faithful".

Anonymous said...

Brigham Young said that there is nothing worse than blind obedience.

What happened to Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ? In all my years growing up FLDS I never once heard the term "Holy" Prophet until Warren came along. How can anyone claim to believe in Christ when their actions are not Christ like?
"Faithful" my heart goes out to you because you know full well when you put a man before Christ then it is not of Christ. You can say all the words you want. You can think and believe what you want but the truth is not dependant on anything or anyone else. It is what it is. I wish you nothing but peace because anyone attempting to serve an unpleasable master will have little of it.

Anonymous said...

I am surprised that the people who sat in our church all these years could say what they did about Warren Jeffs and Uncle Fred. They loved each other dearly. There was no rift betwene them. Fred Jessop, was never put out of the church. He did not lose any position. He was a father to almost all of us. Warren Jeffs made up a song of love espesialy for him. I think you sat out in the dark too long and could not see what happened. I think UNcle Fred was talking about you, when he said things would be different. He had love for all. He loved Warren Jeffs. He was as perfect as any man I ever met. as to athority to love each other, and God, Jesus gave this a long time ago. Can any one of you claim God came to you personally, and confirmed your position and perfectness. We all have weaknesses. It is better, to love and forgive. Uncle Fred was a very honorable man. He never did a dishonest thing. Warren Jeffs is an Honest man. The gross lies cerculating about him are just that: LIes. I had people ask me who the next leader of my people was going to be. They wanted to know, so they could persicute him. Remember this when you are slandering some one: With God it is all recorded. Truth is truth. When you get into the next life, your memory is unwound. Truth does stand before you. There will be no one else. you, truth, God.

Anonymous said...

To the 4:00AM post:
As to Uncle Fred being one of the most perfect men ever, I have to agree with you. He certainly was a Father to us all and one of the most dearly loved men ever to walk this earth. But as to your comment about Warren being an honest man. How can you say that when all He has left behind him is a trail of sorrow, heartache, and destruction? And if he is so honest, why hasn't any of his predictions come true? Why has he taken men who were honest, decent family men and ripped them all to pieces and scattered their families to the four winds? If he truly feels like Uncle Roy was a Prophet, why did he have the monument of the raid broken to pieces? Was it only because maybe for two minutes the people were thinking about something other than him? The raid is of no significance to him...it isn't a part of his heritage.
And if Warren truly loved Uncle Fred as you say, why did Uncle Fred die in Lone Tree instead of in "Zion" where the "saints" are? Just a few questions...

Anonymous said...

To 4:00 AM Poster:

8:19 asked a fair question. If Warren loved Fred Jessop, why did he let him die alone far away from family and the people he loved?

Answer that one if you can!

Anonymous said...

4:00 am.I to would like to hear your answers to 8:19,s questions.

Anonymous said...

12:57 AM Good to meet you. We agree "faithful" is struggling and trying to make some sort of sense out of all this chaos. These "idiotic and argumentative posts" are bringing out into the open a lot of truth and this forum is extremely valuable for cautious FLDS people to express themselves. I'm glad the web administrator put these old posts back up on the board, because new people from Warren's group are continually reading them, even though they are not yet responding.

I still believe "faithful" is in Warren's group, though. Could we agree to disagree and still become internet friends?

Also, you are monitoring and responding to these posts as well. Does that mean you have lost your family? If so, you truly have my sympathy and prayers.

I think that in spite of what we may say, there is a certain element of fear of death in all of us. Why else are we, you, I and "faithful" posting incognito?

One more quick question. Are you "faithful" writing under anonymous? It seems you quote from similar plays such as Shakespeare. :-)

Just Me

Anonymous said...

To the 10:50 PM post. Are you still in? That term "holy" prophet sounds like you are aware of a very recent sermon given by Warren Jeffs.

Anonymous said...

Ya know what would be great? I think that I would like to know the names of some of the people who are still in Colorado City and post on this site. They are probably some of my friends that I had while still living there! I only stay anonymous because I don't want to make my parents feel bad that their son is posting on a site like this, and I know if anyone knew who I was they would tell my parents. It's wierd how when this blog site first started it was black and white, one against the other. Now there are people that still like in Colorado City who post on this site and you can actually reason with them! I think it's a great thing that for the most part, both sides of the story are coming together, and taking away the "extremes" from both sides of the fence. Thanks to all those who made this site possible! It's a way for those who are still there to see what's going on, and those of us who are now on the outside looking in a chance to keep in touch and see how our families are being affected.

Anonymous said...

Well said and I to am thankful for the site.I'll bet Warren is haveing ulcers over it.The best he can do to control it is to tell his loyal followers not to read it.Now if he could find out who we were he could do something.I would like to point out that every single person reading this site knows Warren is a false prophet,otherwise they wouldn't dare read it.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to give some (maybe helpful) advice to the FLDS men who are afraid their families will leave them, if their families find out they are seeing Warren for who he really is.

I was once one of those fanatical women who lived and breathed every word that Warren spoke. I would have followed him to the ends of the world, sacrificed everything to recieve his approval. Lucky for me, my husband gathered his family around; and slowly began to read the Book of Mormon, and the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. My husband carefully began to ask us the questions he had, about Warren's teachings when they were not matching up with these two books.

For two years, my husband diligently taught his family the simple truth's of the gospel; and then he was excommunicated. His family was left with the decision to stick by his side, or follow Warren. Nothing could have prepared us for the extreme pressure we faced at that time. Thanks to my husband's patience and diligence in teaching us the true gospel. I went, with the Lord's help, and found a testimony of the true gospel of Jesus Crhist for myself. Not Warren's gospel.

What my husband did to keep his family together worked for many of us. He helped us to think for ourselves, and see the light. Maybe it will work for your loved ones.
I only hope, for your sake, that the Book of Mormon still has some meaning in Warren's church.

God bless you.

Anonymous said...

To 11:42 PM:

Sounds like you've got a real man lady. That's a rare thing in the FLDS Church. Most of the so called men let Warren push them around and take their family's away. What a disgusting report of the presumed Elders of Israel.

Hang on to that MAN of your's girl, he's set a good example for the others who have abandoned their family's just because Warren told them to leave. No one has to leave their home or their homeland except Warren. He's gone to Texas and won't be back . . .

Anonymous said...

to 9:06 from 10:50
I still live in Hildale but I chose not to follow Warren down the primrose path 5 years ago. The end of the earth predictions was a broken record even then. It was a real eye opener to me when Uncle Rulon had his (known) major stroke in 1998 and Warren took it upon his self to interpose himself in the personal lives of the people. I am human and I have made mistakes but those mistakes were taken care of by Uncle Rulon. I believed that a prophets word that something was taken care of was final. When Warren started digging up a past that was already resolved and I had moved on it was very confusing to me. The things Warren was telling me was not the same things Uncle Rulon had said to me personally, previously and with Uncle Rulon still alive at least in body, Warren did not have the right nor authority by ordination to intervene in the lives of the people. I decided at that time that I would accept what ever Heavenly Father had in store for me and that I would be grateful for what ever that would be. If I was to be judged for my own choices then I was going to make my own choices. I cannot begin to express the relief of the weight that was lifted from my heart and shoulders when I made that decision. I mourn the loss of interaction of much of my family that prefer not to associate with me but I have never regretted the decision to follow my own heart and discernment. The truth is that with what we have been taught here all our lives has been consistent to a great degree. For some reason those very truths have been distorted. The once "Living Scriptures" are now termed "Dead Books" by Warren. I am old enough to remember Uncle Roy holding up the Three-In-One and adamantly declaring that if anything he or anyone else said did not square up with that book then it was not of God because everything that we needed for our salvation was in that book. I also remember him saying allot in his sermons that it was the duty of all latter-day prophets to teach nothing but repentance. As long as there was life there was hope. I would like to hear from Uncle Allen and the Barlow men and any of the others that are now left to die alone in a world they don’t understand. what hope do they feel now? I have no joy for the lives being torn apart. I hear reports of young children crying because they cannot see their fathers anymore. I know the heart ache is no less for their fathers.
The only power Warren has is from the people supporting him. If people would follow their hearts and stand up for what they know is right. Warren would have no influence or power in manipulating the lives of good and honorable people. Anyone that wants to support him in kicking men out should read the 102nd section of the doctrine and covenants. I know and have talked with several of the men that have been cut asunder and they have no answers as to the sins they are supposed to repent of. If they knew they would do it in a heartbeat. They would do almost anything to have their families back. But of course their wives and families have been given to other men. The sacred covenant of marriage seems but a frivolous thing. In my eyes it is nothing more than organized adultery. I think anyone that truly wants to follow Warren has that right. All I ask is that we adults make informed decisions. Follow who you will but please get all the facts, if you don’t then you are opening yourself up to pain and suffering that is not necessary and worse for the innocent lives of the children that don’t have that ability and depend on you. I believe there is a sacred covenant in bring children into the world also. They are the true innocents. You men need to quit licking your wounds and take responsibility for your covenants. Stand up for your principals and for what you know is right. Quit making your children pay the price for your weaknesses. Be men for heavens sake!

Anonymous said...

To 1:18 am (what are you doing up so late?)
I completely agree. Much of my family is still swallowing the whole pile, but for me, it all quit squaring up with my religion right about the time of Uncle Rulon's stroke. Like I maintain, I haven't apostatized from my religion. I have merely seperated myself from an organization that is masquerading as my religion. It is definitely NOT the religion I was raised in.

Anonymous said...

And by the way, why hasn't anyone answered why Uncle Fred was in Colorado instead of "Zion" if he was all gung ho for this crap as everyone likes to claim? Does anyone have any info at all?

Anonymous said...

In regard to Uncle Fred:

The question's surrounding his sudden departure from the Twin Cities still linger like a nagging headache. It just doesn't make any sense that a man with his large family and life long committment to them, his friends and his homeland, would suddenly vanish without a rational explanation from him.

I simply can't accept the proffered explanation from Warren's lackeys that he was on a special mission. The truth of the matter is, Uncle Fred was a leadership alternative and therefor a threat to Warren's quest for power. There's talk that Fred was drugged and compromised. It begs the question, why didn't anyone rescue him?

If Warren had any redeeming mercy at all, he would have at the least allowed Uncle Fred to come home to his friends and family, to die with honor--And not to suffer alone in a far away place among strangers.

Anonymous said...

To Just Me:
No, I'm not "Faithful". I guess I haven't read that many of his(?) quotes because I haven't seen any Shakespeare in them. And no, I haven't lost my family. They know about me and they're keeping their mouths shut. But my situation is different anyway. . .
Long story. Yeah. I think I know who you are and next time I see you I'll ask. It would be quite hilarious if our identities were unmasked so we could look around and find out who our friends are. Personally, I'm ready to come out and be finished with the charade. I have been saying way too much to everybody anyway and nobody really wonders how I feel. But just so my extended family will still associate with me, I will just keep on livin. . .

Anonymous said...

To just me, 11:59 PM:

A closet Warrenite (ex-Warrenite?) who's about ready to be outed? Well, what are you waiting for? The waters of freedom are ready for your baptism and awakening from the nightmare of priestcraft.

There are many more like you I'm sure. Soon, this whole Warren debacle will be over, and little Bishop Timpson (whoops, don't you mean Jessop?) will be able to at least try and honor his real name.

In fact, I suppose half the town has changed their name to Jeffs or Jessop. It reminds me of the time all the Barlows who were married by an Apostle other than Brother Johnson had to hurry over and be re-sealed by him to secure their marriages. Well, Uncle Warren has undone all that Brother Johnson couldn't secure after all . . .

Anonymous said...

To 12:50 am.

You got the ex-Warrenite part right.I'm almost ready to jump for freedom and get out of the clutches of Warren Jeffs priestcraft .I've got a few details that need to be taken care of first,but i'm coming.

Just me.:-)

Anonymous said...

To just me 8:45 PM:

Freedom is a wonderful thing--I highly reccommend it . . .