Monday, March 07, 2005

Stone going up on temple

Texas Eyewitness wrote:

It looks as if Warren Jeffs is serious about having the temple built by April 6. Despite lots of rain, work is progressing. Now...workers are laying stone on the outside.

18 comments:

Polygasaurus Tex said...

Yeah, and there are other buildings going up, too!

Anonymous said...

It won't stop until they're forced out if possible. They believe that the end is coming and "God" will make a way for them. So if he's going to make a way then why stop the construction. It's going to be a sad day when this all comes apart. There will be as the bible says "wailing and gnashing of teeth" but it will be of no avail. Bah, I say live and let live. As long as they comply with the laws of Texas and the USA. And stay in their compound what harm is it? The people that are with him evidentally want to be there, or they wouldn't be. Or maybe we should go put a padlock on the gate so they can't come out.

wkb said...

I am proud of those people's industry. Maybe that is being a little Canadian, but their industry is certainly an example, isn't it? Eh! To force them out of what they have built is exactly the attitude that they have. They have left a trail of people forced out of their posessions. In the great roll of the wheel of justice, everyone will get what they deserve along the way. Sure, sometimes it seems that justice is not done, but sometime, somewhere, in this life or the next, it will be done. Those folks have a right to do what they do, and they must have a right to be where they are or someone would have figured it out by now. Don't lock them in and certainly don't lock them out. Their punishment is already severe, for they believe that a man who can take other men's wives away at his will and pleasure, trade them around, frolic off their hard earned means, dispose of whoever he wants too; is somewhat of a supreme being. To me that is punishment enough. I talked one time to a man who had his wife and children taken away from him and given to his brother. He was then instructed to take his directions from the brother who now had his family. He did so and told me that it was like being "skinned alive every morning when he went to breakfast when he saw his family serving his brother" Finally, his brother lost his family. That has got to be punishment enough.

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Native Texan said...

wkb,

Why does such a large group of people allow a man like Warren Jeffs to tear apart their families? Do they really believe that he (Warren) speaks for God when his practices directly conflict with the Mormon doctrine? The impact of his actions appear to be far-reaching. It seems that pretty soon all of this reckless behavior is going to catch up with him. What is stopping these people from standing up for themselves and their families?

Anonymous said...

because they are so brain washed into believing that Warren is an actual "God" on earth. They fear that they will be damned to hell if they don't obey his every "Word of God". They don't look back and say, "hey, ya know what? that last doomsday prophecy didn't really happen. What are the chances I won't go to hell if I just follow my gut instinct?"

Anonymous said...

In the FLDS environment, you see many large families that each member has relatives outside of that immediate family that can add tremendous pressure to remain "faithful." As a man with more than one wife, you stand a good chance that one or all of them may leave you if you so much as question Warren’s authority. The people have been led to believe that he is the living (God upon the earth) authority. All previous books and church doctrine are now considered "dead books".
When threatened with the possibility of losing your family, your children. being disassociated and outcast from all of your family and life long friends. The reality is most of the people involved are trying to comply and not to draw attention to themselves.

The interesting thing to me is not much is being said about cults.
Robert J. Lifton wrote this as a means of identifying a cult. Many organizations may exhibit one or more of these but any that use all eight is classified as a destructive cult using mind control.
Lifton's Eight Criteria
1. Milieu Control
Control of environment and communications within that environment. This includes not only what people communicate with each other, but how the group gets inside a person's head and controls his internal dialogue.
2. Mystical Manipulation
The contrived engineering of experiences to stage seemingly spontaneous and "supernatural" events. Everyone manipulates everyone else for the higher purpose.
3. The demand for purity
Establishing impossible standards for performance, thereby creating an environment of guilt and shame. No matter how hard a person tries, he always falls short, feels badly, and works harder.
4. The cult of confession
The destruction of personal boundaries, and the expectation that every thought, feeling, or action - past or present - that does not conform to the group's rules be shared or confessed. This information is not forgotten or forgiven but, rather, used to control.
5. Sacred Science
The belief that the group's dogma is absolutely scientific and morally true, with no room for questions or alternative viewpoints.
6. Loading the language
The use of vocabulary to constrict member’s thinking into absolute, black-and-white, “thought-terminating cliches” understood only by insiders. (“keep sweet” has been pushed to the extreme in this manner very effectively in the FLDS society).
7. Doctrine over person
The imposition of group beliefs over individual experience, conscience, and integrity.
8. Dispensing of existence
The belief that people in the group have the right to exist and all ex-members and critics or dissidents do not.

Warren’s society exhibit every single one of these rules. On November the 18th 1978 approximately 914 people were killed in Jones Town, Guyana. Of these approximately 276 were children. It is said that those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. The hand writing is on the wall and we sit back and watch!?!?

Anonymous said...

I am not a Mormon, but I know they use the Bible along with their own book. If you are a member of the FLDS group, please consider what Paul tells us in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." If all scripture is God-breathed and you claim to follow God, then you should take a look at the following scriptures...."Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord is kept safe. Many seek an audience with a ruler, but it is from the Lord that a man gets justice." Proverbs 29:25-26. "For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7 "I am the Lord, Who has made all things, Who alone stretched out the heavens, Who spread out the earth by Myself, Who foils the signs of false prophets and makes fools of diviners, Who overthrows the learning of the wise and turns it into nonsense, Who carries out the words of His servants and fulfills the predictions of His messengers." Isaiah 44:24-26.

If you are an FDLS member under Warren Jeffs and have access to a Bible, pray to the Lord for insight and wisdom, open it up, and READ IT!! Romans is a great place to start. God loves you very much and reaches out to all of us who truely want to know Him through His Word. He is a God that doesn't change or waver, as humans do. Warren Jeffs was born a sinner just as you were - read Romans 3:23 "For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". God's Word is powerful and truthful - you can trust that it is from Him. Don't trust man - trust only in the Lord, who loved you enough to send His Son Jesus to die in place of your Sin. He did this so that sin would no longer separate us from Him, that we could experience the fullness of His grace and love!

Anonymous said...

To 8:37 AM Poster:

Thank you. Your words of wisdom and tolerence are sublimely inspired. Freedom is a wonderful thing. But only truth makes men free. And freedom of thought is the ground upon which truth must be planted to grow.

The previous poster, 5:09 AM, has clearly delineated how freedom of thought is mortgaged to another, until individual minds no longer function individually and independantly. This kind of mind control is not generally a characteristic of Mormonism, which instead teaches individual free agency as a highly regarded cannonized principle.

Mormon Fundamentalist reformers are typically the most liberated thinkers of all Mormons. This is why they refuse to give up tenets that are foundational to their faith, even to the point of persecution and martyrdom. The ancient Christians were fed to the lions singing Hymns. True fundamentalist's do not fear man, so how could they ever regard man as God?

What has happened in Colorado City/Hildale, is an abberation of true fundamentalism, both in doctrine and in practice. Warren Jeffs is the Machievalian opportunist who capitalized on a conspiracy to change the Priesthood Work.

This conspiracy, led by "Uncle" Fred and the Barlows, arrested the control of the UEP Trust from the Priesthood Council and put in their place a "One Man Doctrine."
By making that one man infallible, they provided a way for Warren Jeffs to ultimately control, not only their property, but their very lives.

The unfortunate thing about mortality is that good men get old, senile, have strokes, dimentia and other malady's typical to the human condition. When Brother Johnson began his extended and very painful illness, he was attended to by sympathethic practioners who eventually administered strong painkillers like Demerol to relieve his severe pain. It was in this condition that he was influenced by the conspirators to buy into the One Man Doctrine.

It was easy for Warren to inherit this adavantage over the people when he attended to his father in his aged condition. Rulon Jeffs suffered a severe automobile accident in the mid Seventies wherein he was unconscious for several hours. This began the process of his mental impairment, afterwhich he made many prophecy's similar to Warren's which were never fulfilled. The most famous of these being the prophecy that Brother Johnson was the "Marred Prophet" spoken of in Third Nephi (Book of Mormon) and that he would not die. Rulon later added himself and Fred Jessop to this immortality prediction, both of which failed miserably.

After Rulon's stroke, Warren had free reign of church control acting as his spokesman. The conspiracy bore final fruit when Warren appointed himself as "Prophet Seer and Revelator."

Now, Warren's actions and policies have declared him to be, as Winston Blackmore has so accurately stated, "The Prophet of Doom." Time is running out on Warren Steed Jeffs.

It is the hope of all concerned christians, that the common sense of people like poster 8:37 AM will prevail. And that in time, the effects of reprograming the preyed upon, through the diclosure of true history and principle, will eventually heal the minds and lives of the victim's of this "Prophet of Doom."

Anonymous said...

To 5:09 PM: I can testify that all doctrines given square up 100% with the BIBLE,BOOK OF MORMON, DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS, and the words of every prophet that ever lived. There are no DEAD BOOKS. No prophecy has ever been given with a DATE on it. "No one know the day or the hour, not even the angels in heaven. Only God knows."

Sincerily,

Faithful

P.S. : I will defend the TRUTH where I can.

Native Texan said...

Dear Faithful,

Have you ever actually read the Bible and compared it to your other books? I think you would find that they do not, in fact, square up! Be FAITHFUL only to the Lord.

Stop being spiritually lazy. Quit letting a fellow man spoon-feed you.

God's greatest gift to us was His son Jesus, who died for our sins that we could receive eternal life. Why? Because He loves us(John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life"), and because it pleased Him to do so ("He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will." Ephesians 1:5)

There would be no point in Christ making the ultimate sacrifice (death on a cross) if we still had to work to attain salvation on this earth. It's grace. Very hard to understand as humans, but we're talking about God here. Check out what God says on the topic: "It is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

My point is that God loves you enough to want a relationship with you....He sent His Son to die a brutal death on the cross just so that you could stand before Him blamelessly....He gave you His Word that you can know His character. To look at the Bible as a nice collection of fairy tales is to completely miss the point. In these accounts we learn of God's righteousness, faithfulness, justice, jealousy, grace, love, and many other attributes.

Living here on this earth is not about proving something to God. Naturally we who love Him and have accepted Christ as our savior want to please Him. Can our best efforts at righteousness even come close to being good enough to please God? The Bible says, "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away." Isaiah 63:15. Let me run that by you again...."all our righteous acts are like filthy rags".

You are loyal, but to who? My heart goes out to you because I worry that you rely on a fellow man to tell you what God's will for you is. God desires to tell you for Himself who He is and how your life can be pleasing to Him. As you mature in your faith you will stand back and marvel as God reveals Himself to you....He will not hold back!

God bless,
Native Texan
James 1:2-5

Anonymous said...

to Faithful: I posted the 5:09 am post. I still live in Hildale and I would love nothing more than to see your proof. I mean this in all honesty and humility. The thing I must ask is based upon the term "By their works ye shall know them". Is this really what you belive in? I look back at the wake that Warren has left and it is nothing but destruction. I have immediate family members where the men to this day do not know why they were told to leave. The letters they were told to write were left unanswered by Warren. The men tried to communicate with him and he refuses contact and yet when a woman wants to talk to him he anwsers quickly. I dont say this to be antagonistic but because I have seen it first hand. We were brought up with a priesthood lineage by ordination which is through the men of the family. We were told no woman could testify to priesthood matters and yet Warren claims by the testimony of a women when he was ordained? I ask you when was he ordained? Who are the witnesses. Where is the proper authority? Now everything is done in secrecy. So I ask you what do you really know? What has went on in secrecy that you get bits and pieces of now? What does your heart really tell you? I grew up believing in a God of Unconditional love. Everything Warren does is a condition is it not? I remember growing up being taught that we would be going back to Jackson County MO to build the temple. Where did this phantom temple in Eldorado all of a sudden come from? I remember everyone was told to move to short creek because that is where the lifting up as it was called would commense in the new millenium, the year 2000. We know truth in our own hearts. We know the true prophets because the things they say actually come true. No more escuses, no more games, no more secrecy. The truth stands up to all critisizims. If we are to put Warren or anyone else on a pedestol then lets hold him to the same standards as everyone else. What happened to the articles of faith? what about "We believe that men may worship who, where, or what they may?". What about "Lets go down the road together?". Seriously my friend. Is not the Spirit of God the Spirit of Peace? My heart goes out to you and all of our friends and loved ones. May Warrens destructions be over soon so we can put our families and our lives back together and go back to Loving our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ with all our hearts, might, mind, and strengh and Loving our neighbor as our selves. Peace my friend and Brother.

Anonymous said...

to Faithful: I posted the 5:09 am post. I still live in Hildale and I would love nothing more than to see your proof. I mean this in all honesty and humility. The thing I must ask is based upon the term "By their works ye shall know them". Is this really what you belive in? I look back at the wake that Warren has left and it is nothing but destruction. I have immediate family members where the men to this day do not know why they were told to leave. The letters they were told to write were left unanswered by Warren. The men tried to communicate with him and he refuses contact and yet when a woman wants to talk to him he anwsers quickly. I dont say this to be antagonistic but because I have seen it first hand. We were brought up with a priesthood lineage by ordination which is through the men of the family. We were told no woman could testify to priesthood matters and yet Warren claims by the testimony of a women when he was ordained? I ask you when was he ordained? Who are the witnesses. Where is the proper authority? Now everything is done in secrecy. So I ask you what do you really know? What has went on in secrecy that you get bits and pieces of now? What does your heart really tell you? I grew up believing in a God of Unconditional love. Everything Warren does is a condition is it not? I remember growing up being taught that we would be going back to Jackson County MO to build the temple. Where did this phantom temple in Eldorado all of a sudden come from? I remember everyone was told to move to short creek because that is where the lifting up as it was called would commense in the new millenium, the year 2000. We know truth in our own hearts. We know the true prophets because the things they say actually come true. No more escuses, no more games, no more secrecy. The truth stands up to all critisizims. If we are to put Warren or anyone else on a pedestol then lets hold him to the same standards as everyone else. What happened to the articles of faith? what about "We believe that men may worship who, where, or what they may?". What about "Lets go down the road together?". Seriously my friend. Is not the Spirit of God the Spirit of Peace? My heart goes out to you and all of our friends and loved ones. May Warrens destructions be over soon so we can put our families and our lives back together and go back to Loving our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ with all our hearts, might, mind, and strengh and Loving our neighbor as our selves. Peace my friend and Brother.

Anonymous said...

To "faithful" on the 11:23 post.
I am from Colorado City, and I don't believe for one minute that you have read the Bible. You know, the Bible is not encouraged reading. Pretty soon the Book of Mormon will go by the wayside, as well. The only thing you will be reading is what Warren gathers with his computer and teaches you on tape. As to you claiming no prophecy has ever been given without a date on it, you are way out in left field on that one, my friend.

Anonymous said...

To the 5:09 AM post: I hate to say it, but we qualify on all eight of the counts you mentioned. What are we going to do about it?

Anonymous said...

I think the saying "the truth will set you free" is the most applicalble answer on what can be done.

The one good thing in the end is that the people who pick themselves up after Warren loses support is that the people will be an informed people. The only way out is to question and find your truth. There has been allot in our society and world over the years that we have had rammed down out throats that have been outright lies.

What we see now has been an orchestrated event that began to coalesce in the mid to late 1970's. The interesting thing is that the people that orchestrated this have sold their souls to it and Warren beat them at their own game. They now have no moral authority to stop him.

If we want to do something about it then start looking for the truth. Start telling the truth. Gather your families around you!

The only reason Warren has any power is because WE let him.

If anyone knows first hand (not Rumors) of any crimes that Warren has committed then they need to report it to the proper authorities. The Attorney Generals are actively pursing any underage marriages that he ordered or performed. We as a people are not on a witch hunt here. We are not out for vengeance. We are out for truth!

Everyone stands for something. They may speak it out loud and yet their silence and submission speaks just as loud. "All Evil needs to triumph is for good men to stand up and do nothing!"

You ask what can we do? Everything you possibly can that doesn’t compromise your morals or principals or the truth.

I believe Warren will get his just rewards in due time. Whatever that is I don’t care, I’m just glad I’m not the one who has to determine what that will be. The point I am making is if every individual doesn’t stand up for what they know is right in their own hearts then what is the point?

If you want to live in fear fine, that is your choice. When each one of us individually have enough confidence in the truth no matter the cost then this nonsense will stop. The truth is not about what someone tells you or that is written in any book. Its what’s in your heart. What you want for you and your family. It is a way of life. Some of these answers you will find in books but you have to determine your own truth, if your wrong then you take the consequences and move on but the journey continues.

The truth is not dependant upon what we think, know, understand and especially not upon what we believe. The truth is what it is and stands solid.

If you are so limited in what you feel you can do then at least don’t look down at your feet and look up and embrace beauty of the people and the world that we all share.

Anonymous said...

I heard the stone on the temple is not cutting into as thin a pieces as originally planned.It's having to be cut a lot thicker to hold together.Does anyone have information on this?